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Northwest717
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:47 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 am

Very sad indeed. I wonder why they have not released the airlines or flight #s yet? Isn't that usually the first thing to be released? Anyways, a very very sad thing. My condolences to all involved and the nation of Russia.

-Tim  Sad
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:51 am

i have been watching them very closley thanks, if you were home half hour ago it was half a hour prior to that that this thread started, about the time that fox and sky started reporting it, been moving from channel to channel to see whos reporting it more, might be diffrent in america, itv was much faster to report than fox or skynews

[Edited 2004-08-25 01:54:45]
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Horus
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:53 am

Have they found the second aircraft yet?

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:54 am

Have they found the second aircraft yet?
Not yet.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14560
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:54 am

With the surrounding situation, the closeness of the 2 incidents, sound like Chechen terrorists somehow got bombs on both a/c. God Bless those poor souls. I hope the Russians do what they have to do to find out the truth quickly and if it is terrorism, they take strong and 'appropiate' actions. This could be the final straw of the continuing terror by the Chenchians against Russia, and could lead profound and violent reactions. Stories suggest 42 on on one flight, 44 on the other.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:55 am

i have been watching them very closley thanks, been moving from channel to channel to see whos reporting it more, might be diffrent in america, itv was much faster to report than fox or skynews

Was not home only half an hour ago. I got home around 5:30 ET. Maybe moving from channel to channel caused you to miss it. I don't know. It's not important now. Let's not argue...



Anyway, as many have stated, many condolences to the victims and their families.

[Edited 2004-08-25 01:57:48]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:57 am

ok i dnt want to argue either, just that i specifically was watching fox as i thought it would be interesting to see how quickley they would report something like that from outside america. wouldnt like to comment on passenger numbers theres been many conflicting reports, some as high as 60 others low as 30 odd
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Espion007
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:00 am

All info is just coming in so i wouldnt trust it. This might be terrorism by extremist chechans.I just wonder what this will do to the stereotype that russian planes are dangerous,since on was a tu-154 and the other a tu-134. FOX news is saying these are the most dangerous and oldest planes flying (which is total bullshit).
Snakes on a Plane!
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2708
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:02 am

As insensitive as this may sound, I think that US media is giving it very little (if any) attention because sadly, most US citizens would probably care less about Chechnya and Russia's internal problems. Many people automatically assume that all Russian-built aircraft are unsafe, so the average citizen probably wouldn't care all that much. I'm not saying that I endorse our apathy about world affairs, but it is more likely than not the case.

[Edited 2004-08-25 02:04:09]

[Edited 2004-08-25 02:04:42]
 
northwestair
Posts: 515
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:04 am

I like how FOX news says these planes are 30-40 years old and are very dangerous. Man what do you think they would say about NWA old DC9's. I guess FOX News thinks those are death traps
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:04 am

and you could be sure that if it happend in america and for say the bbc did what the american news channels are doing mr o'riley would be having another go at them, but some news channels just think that if it didnt happen in america it just didnt happen
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
b757300
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:07 am

I like how FOX news says these planes are 30-40 years old and are very dangerous. Man what do you think they would say about NWA old DC9's. I guess FOX News thinks those are death traps

It isn't just Fox News that is clueless about aviation. The media on a whole seems to be clueless. I remember when AA587 crashed that CNN called it a Boeing A300 and CBS said it was an Airbus-Boeing 767. Of course then the media will show stock footage of a totally different type of aircraft from an airline that isn't involved.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:08 am

I like how FOX news says these planes are 30-40 years old and are very dangerous
Keyword: and. They are not saying that the planes are dangerous because the planes are old.

Very few news channels had news shows during the time the events occurred, and those that did are usually pretty scripted (think "60 Minutes" but dealing with very recent events).

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:14 am

the news channels are just repeating themselfs now, i doubt there will be any developments untill the morning
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Northwest717
Posts: 612
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:20 am

Ditto on that Northwestair. Sometimes people can be so ignorant about topics. I can't believe that just because they are well-aged and Russian that they think they are automatically "dangerous." Maybe uncomfortable, or even boring (probably no IFE), but most likely NOT dangerous!

-Tim  Sad
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1418
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:21 am

It can be quite dangerous assuming terrorism so soon... i.e. AA 587... this can be nothing more than a horrid coincidence.

Hopefully there are survivors but to those who have died, may they rest in eternal peace.

"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
spacecadet
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:24 am

As insensitive as this may sound, I think that US media is giving it very little (if any) attention because sadly, most US citizens would probably care less about Chechnya and Russia's internal problems.

Well, on the other hand, a lot of countries resent us because we take too much of an interest in their private internal affairs. You can't have it both ways; either we should care or we shouldn't. I think most countries would rather we stay out of their business. (Of course the situation in Chechnya is a little more complicated, as a lot of muslim terrorists are fighting together around the world now so it does affect us to some extent.)

Personally I don't see it as unexpected or even any sort of real problem that the news here doesn't report foreign accidents so much... a plane crash is usually a regional news story unless there's something bigger going on (and there may be here, we don't know yet). There are a lot of things that happen in other countries that you don't hear much about. Just because people here are interested in aviation in general doesn't mean the rest of the world has to be. I doubt most of our accidents get much press coverage in Russia either, nor would I expect them to.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:24 am

The Russian government has not yet ruled out terrorism.
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
A340600
Posts: 3898
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:27 am

 Sad R.I.P. all crew and passnegers and let's hope there's no terrorism involved,

Sam Sad
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
hz747300
Posts: 2405
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:34 am

Oddly, the U.S. media seems to be giving this story minimal coverage.

I had it on the front page of MSN.COM and CNN.COM. If anyone can relate to this incident it is the citizens of the US, and the citizens of Angola.
Keep on truckin'...
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:40 am

Though the US might not have handed the whole 9/11 situation as well as some would have liked I think that again we can be the closed to understand and relate to the current events. I think the media is watching what they say closely so not to freak out America in thinking that there are more a/c that will be falling out of the skis. So until the official word has been given I think they will be a bit more quiet than the morning of 9/11.

Thanks

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
vasilek
Posts: 36
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:46 am

In the area of village Zelenovka in Rostov region around 3:05 Moscow time the fire was discovered. This is the presumed crash site of Tu-154. The search team is on its way there, according to Interfax agency.
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 678
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E: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:51 am

May God Bless the folks on board and the families of them. I give my condolences to the families. May we pray for the best.
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
flymia
Posts: 7120
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:59 am

Sad story just got in on e-mail.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
pilot kaz
Posts: 4591
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:13 am

This is terrible news. I hope this is not an act of terrorism.
-
 
flyyul
Posts: 4446
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:15 am

Pray for the families and souls of the victims.

god bless.

 
Msl747
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:30 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:17 am

$hit! I just heard it on the news! May the passengers and crew RIP.


-Msl747 Crying  Sad
Commercial Pilot Certificate: Single and Multi-Engine Land; Instrument Airplane
 
vasilek
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:01 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:17 am

The pilot of Tu-134 was a director of Volga-Aviaexpress. He was a professional pilot and aslo the captain on scheduled flights in the company.

Volga-Aviaexpress is a small regional company that has (had) 2 planes: Tu-134 and Yak 42D.

//Intertfax

[Edited 2004-08-25 03:21:03]
 
mNeo
Posts: 718
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:12 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:18 am

it would be nice if you could all look at howmany "mechanical" incidents the TU-154/134 had and to compare that to the number built. TU-154 has a pretty good safety record. the chance of 2 planes from the same airport to crash while airborne within 10 min of each other due to mechanical problems is about 1 in 1 trillion. the more i read on the more it seems like a terrorist attack. but until the investigation confirms it it could be just a VERY rare coinsidence.

and my condolenses to the victims' families
Powered by Maina
 
DLX737200
Posts: 1661
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:21 am

Oh my goodness. May those souls lost rest in peace. I pray this wasn't another act of terrorism. If it was, say goodbye to more freedoms of aviation (i.e. stricter spotting rules). Everytime sometime big happens in aviation (disaster wise), something else gets taken away that in no way helps out the situation.  Sad

-Justin

 Sad R.I.P  Sad
 
tangoecho
Posts: 123
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:38 am

Just heard on the news that witnesses saw one of the planes (not sure which one) explode mid-air...

Still awaiting more info  Sad
Contact Aberdeen tower on 118.10 G'day.
 
tangoecho
Posts: 123
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:43 am

The second aircraft is still missing, not necessarily crashed (hopefully).
Contact Aberdeen tower on 118.10 G'day.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:43 am

Second crash site has been located.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html

Apparently, there had been a bombing at a Moscow subway station. Russia has not yet said anything about the nature of the planes.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
DeltaMD11
Posts: 1680
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:44 am

"It's time for the Russian government to lower import duty on western equipment now. So local start-up can provide safe and reliable 757 and 737 service to the Russian flying public."

What a nonsense thing to say. The -154 has an excellent service record and the -134 is the backbone of russian regional flights and has been for many years. There is nothing wrong with their craftsmanship/designs. Soviet aircraft were designed to be workhorses and handle a lot of punishment. Subsequently they are built like brick shithouses to handle all kinds of weather conditions and different types of runway surfaces. Regardless, if it was a bomb on board or some other act of terrorism the aircraft type isn't going to make a difference.

What we need to be thinking about now is the loss of life and how unfortunate it is. May their souls rest in peace.

Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
[email protected]
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:53 am

Well said, DeltaMD11! I couldn't agree more about the level of safety of Russian- and Soviet-built machines. Furthermore, most people assume that they're ancient machines, when in fact some are only a couple of years' old.

If you think Russian airlines need to start replacing their aircraft with western-built beasts because they're safer, I think you've cracked a nut. What about all those western-built aircraft which have crashed over the years? Oh no, they're not safe!

My thoughts to all the victims and their families at this very sad time.  Sad
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Espion007
Posts: 1652
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:54 am

I like how FOX news says these planes are 30-40 years old and are very dangerous


yea i heard that bit too.made me a bit angry (mostly cause im russian and we take pride in our planes). This looks alot like terrorism.Either that,or a shocking coincidence. i want to see what putin will say about it.
Snakes on a Plane!
 
yevgeny
Posts: 198
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:00 am

Details on the aircraft, crash sites, and other details, seem be to posted at http://www.aviatsiya.ru/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77long before the English media.


Yevgeny
 
Blackhawk144
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 am

Oh my god...and when I thought it was over. I was appearently silly to think that. This is a very tragic event, and I hope something like this will never happen again. May the deceased on the aircraft Rest in Peace  Crying.

Anthony
Time is the best of all teachers. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students!
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:09 am

If the reg # posted in the link above is correct, here they are:

Tu-134


View Large View Medium

Photo © Pereslavtsev Alex
View Large View Medium

Photo © Pereslavtsev Alex



Tu-154:



[Edited 2004-08-25 04:16:59]
 
EAL1011500
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 8:40 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:13 am

What a horrible tragedy. Prayers to the families.

The media coverage in this country has made me sick to my stomach. In their typical condescending way Fox News has once again said the rest of the world is $hit.

I would get on a Tu-134 or 154 tomorrow (quite happily I might add). I really hate to say it but this looks like clear cut terrorism.

All of Russia will be in my prayers tonight.
 
damirc
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:29 am

S7-1047 (Moscow Domodedovo - Sochi (Adler)) Crewlist:

Captain Gurbev Mihail Leonidovich - 1956 - Pilot, 1st Class (Moscow)
Pilot Andrushenko Jorii Vladimirovich - 1970 - Pilot, 2nd Class (Moscow)
Flight Navigator Koroli Jorii Vladimirovich - 1964 - Pilot, 1st Class (Moscow)
Flight Engineer Ermolaev Andrei Vladimirovich - 1966 - Pilot, 2nd Class (Moscow)
Chief Purser Blikovskaia Olga Sergeevna - 1963 - (Barnaul)
Flight Attendant Ivanov Sergei Vladimirovich - 1966 - (Barnaul)
Flight Attendant Tarsukova Iana Gennadievna - 1974 - (Barnaul)
Flight Attendant Hudeeva Marina Petrovna - 1979 - (Barnaul)

From http://www.s7.ru/1047/crewlist.shtml

I apologize for any spelling mistakes.

May they Rest In Peace.

D.
 
RIX
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:51 am

Russian site gazeta.ru says the registration number of the Tu154 was 85556. If this is correct, I have flown on this aircraft in 1991, CCCP-85556 of Latvian department of Aeroflot...
 
Dasheighty
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 1:54 pm

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nor Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:52 am

One time I was coming back from New York on the turnpike and at the exit tolls there were two car fires ablaze. Since traffic was jammed I got out of my car to watch the fire fighters fight the fires of both cars not thirty feet apart from each other. I asked a police officer what had happened and he said that both fires had nothing to do with each other They just happened to catch on fire at the same place at the same time. Sometimes lightening strikes twice Although I admit for two aircraft to come down at almost the exact same time after taking off minutes apart from each other? I just hope these terrorist 8 balls aren't up to their old tricks again...Something sure smells ripe. But then again I'm just a guessin.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:57 am

Oh my gosh! To our fellow Russian Crew Members, best wishes to you! To the family and friends that lost people, our hearts are with all of you!

When things happen to airliners- it does NOT matter what airline, thats when we ALL come together...Not UA against AA, KL against BA..just ONE airline family!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
damirc
Posts: 727
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:58 am

Well actually, the aircraft took off more than just a few minutes apart.

The Sibir Airlines 1047 took off at 21:35 local time (scheduled 21:25).
Volga-AviaExpress 1303 took off at 22:16 local time (scheduled 22:20).

So they took off 41 minutes apart. Times were taken from http://www.domodedovo.ru/en/main/airindicator/departures/index.asp?d=0&v=22

(the 41 minute difference also explains why the crash sites are ~400 miles apart; had the gap been smaller the distance would've been smaller also (both were travelling southwards (not in the same corridor though)).

D.
 
TUNisia
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:05 pm

More and more in my gut this feels like a terrorist attack. May G-d comfort those hurting.

TUNisia
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2494
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:08 pm

Just wanted to add my condolences here from San Francisco.

Any crash at all is bad, any with loss of life is simply terrible, but if it is found that these aircraft were brought down by terrorism (certainly not ruled out as a possibilty as yet), it is just truly sad that people's beliefs have to extend to killing innocent passengers and crew.

As for saying Tu 134's and Tu 154's are not safe (FOX), then they are missing the point that these type of aircraft fly thousands of hours per year with no problems at all and if they weren't safe, would 99.9999999% of the airlines actually fly them?

After all, isn't it true that flying is in fact one of, if not THE safest form of travel?

May everyone who died today, rest in peace, may your deaths not be in vain!

A very somber VS4ever.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:09 pm

TUNisia

Thats what is feels like...god hope not!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
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RayChuang
Posts: 8138
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:14 pm

I think the more I think about it the more I (in my humble opinion!) begin to suspect that Chechen extremists may have a hand in both unfortunate tragedies.  Sad

People forget that Chechen rebels have been fighting the Russian government for many years, and there has been a number of very ugly terrorist incidents in the Moscow area done by Chechens in the last 14 years.

What happened tonight reminded me so much of what happened in the 1980's when Sikh terrorists destroyed one Air India 747-200B with a bomb over the Atlantic and nearly destroyed another AI 742 on the same day--the only reason why the second 742 wasn't destroyed was that the plane was delayed flying into NRT. The LD3 container that contained the bomb exploded on the ground at NRT, killing a Japanese airport worker.
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:36 pm

From the front page of the New York Times:

Hijacking Signal Was Reportedly Activated on Missing Russian Plane.
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