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EZEIZA
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:38 pm

Any updates on second crash? BTW, I thought that all airports in Moscow closed, but from what i see at DME webpage flights have been departing regularly.
Respect for the victims & families

Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:41 pm

My condolences go out to those victims and their families on board those aircraft.
May those who have perished rest in Peace, Amen.
 
KDTWflyer
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:48 pm

CNN says now that... Russian news agency Interfax reports airliner sent "hijack" alert before disappearing from radar and crashing. Details soon. Condolences to all.
 
AA777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:59 pm

And so they strike again. Condolences to the loved ones of the deceased.

-AA777
 
QIguy24
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:01 pm

Oh man.... What a terrible day to start the morning. My condolances to all the passengers(except for the terrorists) and the crewmembers. May the rest in peace.
I just saw on CNN Breaking news that it was a terrorist attack. Damn I hope it won't move over to Europe  Sad
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:03 pm

And so they strike again.

Maybe. If this is truly terrorism, the perpetrators could be Chechens instead of from al Qaeda.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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aviationwiz
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:06 pm

If this is truly terrorism, the perpetrators could be Chechens instead of from al Qaeda.

Don't see a big reason why Al Qaeda would strike Russia, using common sense and history, it would be Chechens if this were indeed a terrorist attack
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
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foxecho
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:09 pm

From Excite news, not sure on source

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040825/D84M0R400.html

The Russian news agency Interfax reported that a hijacking signal was activated on the second plane before it went missing. The signal came at 11:04 p.m. from the Tu-154 airliner, Interfax quoted the source in Russia's "power structures" as saying.


RIP

Andrew

PS I just saw the other post about the signal, please dont flame me, I missed it before...apologies

[Edited 2004-08-25 06:21:18]
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
Northwest717
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:10 pm

Aviationwiz,


Possibly for a dry run before trying to do the real thing on US soil (again) God forbid.

-Tim  Sad
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:20 pm

Aviationwiz,


Possibly for a dry run before trying to do the real thing on US soil (again) God forbid.

-Tim


Tim- I doubt this has anything to do with Al Queda or the USA as other posters have said already. There has been tension for years between Chechnya (sp?) and USSR/Russia. I think this is just part of that power struggle for Chechnya to become its own country. Unfortunately, this is the route that people think will help them win their independence.  Sad

God rest the victims souls'
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
hz747300
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:23 pm

Al Qaeda supports the Chechen rebels financially and with human resources. Just listen to any Bin Laden speech made during the Chechen uprising from 1996-2000.

When John Walker was captured in Afghanistan he stated that in the training camps you could train to become a terrorist or train to become a holy warrior in the fight for Chechnya (which is historically Muslim).

Who knows what it is yet...
Keep on truckin'...
 
TWAMD-80
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:39 pm

OH MY!!! I thought it was pretty coincidental. Right now here's the front page news of CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html

TW
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NWA742
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:48 pm

Yeah, this was definitely terrorism, I have no doubt of it now.

God bless those who died and those who lost loved ones.

 Sad



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
S12PPL
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:00 pm

My thoughts and prayers go out to the familes of the dead. I hope they didn't have to suffer too much. Sad

And, I hope this isn't another act of terrorism, even though all clues so far point that direction. If it is, what another sad day for the world. Security at airports all over the world will be tighter than just after 9/11.....
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
Northwest717
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:09 pm

Smcmac32msn,


To tell the truth I have no idea. I just threw that out for a suggestion. I doubt that is what it is. All signs point to Chechans (if it is a terrorist attack).

-Tim  Sad
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
ua777222
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:14 pm

Now reporting that they have opened a criminal case for the second crash. To have these you need to have VERY SERIOUSE grounds to stand on. And that ATC called the authority's saying that the a/c was having issues with the crew being attacked.

Just on CNN now. Sorry if already posted.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
airliner777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:20 pm

May all the victims on both flights rest in peace.  Crying
 
adriaticus
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:30 pm

From The New York Times website:

<< Just three minutes after the Tu-134 crashed, air traffic controllers lost contact with the other passenger plane, a Tu-154 bound for the Black Sea resort of Sochi. Its wreckage was not found until Wednesday morning, the search disrupted by heavy rain.

Interfax quoted major Russian air carrier Sibir, the owner of the plane, as saying 46 people, including eight crew, were on board the plane, in operation since 1982.
>>

May the souls of everyone involved find peace.

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Flaps
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:35 pm

Terrorism is terrorism regardless of who commits it or whom it is committed against. Only true sniveling cowards attempt to get their point across by murdering innocent civilians. Have no mercy upon the attackers souls.

Pardon me if I am not politically correct in asking this but I am not very familiar with Russian culture and especially with naming conventions. On the crew list posted above I noticed the same last name, Vladimirovich posted four times with dates from 1964 to 1970. Is this a common last name in this region or is it possible that some of these crewmwbers are related? I am not trying to be morbid here. I was just thinking of how horrible for the family members to lose so many at once if in fact they were related. Brings back memories of the firefighters and Police Officers at the WTC.
 
miamix707
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:00 pm

He said that until the end of Communism that Russian a/c were extremely safe, it is only since the collapse and the susequent collapse of the safety authorities that things have got worse

I would like to see actual numbers of accidents comparing the 13 years prior to the fall of communism to the 13 years after to see if I should believe that statement.

It's a coincidence this happened during the olympics. Back in 1996 during the olympics there was another crash we all remember well ;(

Also unfortunate for Sibir. They lost another Tu-154 a few years ago due to a missile explosion during military exercises.

I was watching NBC news and while reporting it they showed a still picture of a Vnukovo Tu-154, an airline no longer flying...

Condolences to our Russian brothers and if it's terrorism I hope they wipe all these idiots from the face of the earth once and for all already!

******
I've never heard of a crash due to "fuel contamination" can someone tell me exactly what that's about?
 
globetrekker
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:03 pm

I am in Holland right now and I just saw the images on Dutch television. Horrible! May the victims rest in peace.
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
andz
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:04 pm

Just heard on the radio that one flight recorder has been recovered.

Also a soundbyte of some American saying 'both aircraft have appalling safety records'

RIP
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:10 pm

Very sad to hear, my thoughts and Prayers are with the victims families.
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:28 pm

I think it's warranted to be a little panicked about this. Let's assume for a moment that the two hijacked jets were a Sept. 11 style attack to assassinate Vladimir Putin while on vacation. (They were both headed in that direction anyhow - one to the particular city that he was in.)

Now read this article from two weeks ago, indicating a new wave of terrorist attacks that would be kicked off with a high profile political assassination.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20040811/ts_nm/security_qaeda_report_dc

To those who think this isn't a valid concern because it appears to be an internal terrorist problem to Russia, remember that Sept. 11 was the second event in al Qaeda's plans. On Sept. 9, 2001, they assassinated Ahmed Shah Massood, the leader of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan.

[Edited 2004-08-25 08:30:05]

[Edited 2004-08-25 08:30:55]
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:38 pm

Russians now investigating it as a possible attempt against Putin.

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=10792
 
9A-CRO
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:46 pm

Sad to see these beautiful birds perish with so many people on board

According to Aviation-safety.net planes in question are
Tu-134 Volga Aviaexpress (RA-65080)

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Photo © Tomislav Muic


and Sibir Airlines Tu-154 (RA-85556)

View Large View Medium
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Photo © SilverWingPix

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vasilek
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:47 pm

Crash site of Tu-154 has been found. Flight recorders recovered from both airplanes.
 
SFO2SVO
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:48 pm

First, my condolences to everybody who lost their loved ones... Both crash sites were located and there are no survivors.

I also can't believe they have done _nothing_ in Domodedovo. Come on, there are two crashes, both planes took off from the same airport, 99% chance that those are related, and they have not closed the airport or canceled departures!

Look at their real-time timetable: (in Russian only)
http://www.domodedovo.ru/ru/main/airindicator/flight/index.asp?d=0&v=21

There is a good chance there was a security breach, there might be more people with explosives in the departure area - but the planes are still taking off!

Can't bring the people back, but let's at least make an effort so it does not happen again!
318-19-20-21 330-22 340-35 350 380 717 727 737-234578 747-34 757-23 767-34 777-23 787-8 DC9 DC10 M11 MD8x MD90 F70 RJ85 ATR72 DASH8 SF340 E120 TU34 TU54 IL18/62/86/96
 
AirEMS
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:51 pm

My prayers and thoughts are with the crew.. and the passengers families let hope that this doensn't spread....May we all fly safe  Sad
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
SFO2SVO
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:02 pm

> On the crew list posted above I noticed the same last name, Vladimirovich
>posted four times with dates from 1964 to 1970. Is this a common last name in
>this region or is it possible that some of these crewmwbers are related?

Flaps,

Vladimirovich is not a last name, rather a middle name which is always person's father's first name (even for women) in Russia. The usual official format for the name is lastname firstname middlename.
Vladimir is a common first name (as in Vladimir Putin for example) - so the crew members are not related (different last names)
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm

This is sad news. Like everyone else, condolences to those involved.

I would ask that we keep this discussion confined to the issue of the crashes - if you would like to discuss the issue of Chechnya or terrorism, then please do so over in the Non-Aviation forum.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
ra-85154
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm

My thoughts go to all the families, friends and the crew's colleagues in Sibir' and Volga

 Sad

http://english.s7.ru/
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:35 pm

And this all is happening just a week before I'm flying SVO-JFK. Oh boy.
 
SA006
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:01 pm

I was hearing an American aviation expert saying that the second plane sqauwked the hijacking code...he also said its different transponder code to the American one...anyone know what Russia's transponder code for hijacking is??

Again...RIP the victims  Sad

Rgds
SA006
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unitedkatw
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:05 pm

I am listening to Virgin Radio and they say that the planes exploded in midair. Amazing. My condolences to everyone in that country. They must be feeling the same nervousness and terror that citzens of the USA felt on Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:15 pm

Terrible, it's just terrible.  Sad

May the men, women and children who were aboard these flights rest in peace.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:18 pm

The saddest part of all is that teh TU-154 was full of people headed for a vacation. Because Sochi is a vacation destination, much like America's Cancun.
 
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American 767
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:29 pm

Yes, I heard of these two Russian airliners crashing after take off out ouf Moscow this morning on a local Belgian radio station. They specified one of them crashed after a hijack. After reading all of the above posts, I'm convinced both crashes are due to terrorism and none of the aircraft involved had technical problems.

Sincere condolenses to the families, friends, close friends and loved ones of the pax and crew who perished in the ill-fated flights originating in Moscow.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
cainanuk
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:37 pm

This is sad news. Like everyone else, condolences to those involved.

I would ask that we keep this discussion confined to the issue of the crashes - if you would like to discuss the issue of Chechnya or terrorism, then please do so over in the Non-Aviation forum.

V/F


Ok, 2 planes crashed....

Come on V/F, this is a discussion forum. We should be able to speak about the cause of the crashes as well. Quit being so anal retentive.

Of course, my condolences go out to the victims.
Cainan Cornelius
 
CV747
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:04 pm

I took these pictures of RA-85556 in Novosibirsk in July 2004,


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Photo © Olafur Sigurdsson



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Olafur Sigurdsson



 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:06 pm

i think northwest717s comments in post 159 were very, very unfair indeed. i would think the russian people would think this was the real thing. wouldnt excatly call it a dry run either, as if its not so important if it happens in russia, really a most insencitive post. sorry for ranting at this time but it really did annoy me.


Gary.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:11 pm

Here is the same story from airwise.com

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/08/1093376595.html
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
CV990
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:13 pm


Hi!

This to me looks so similar to the 9/11 events. Two airplanes leaving from the same airport crash after some time. In the portuguese news it is said that from one of the airplane an SOS distress call was sent to the ATC saying that the cockpit beeing invaded.
When we look to the chain of events that are occuring in Russia with the Tchechenia I wouldn't be surprised that the rebels from that region hijacked the two planes and used the same tactics like in USA, the only difference is the fact that they didn't use ( or they didn't have time.... ) them to crash in some famous buildings in Russia, let's say the Red Square!
If it's true that the tchechenians rebels are supported by Bin Laden then it is indeed very serious to take in mind that these type of tactics can work in some areas. My question is at what level the airports in Russia are working to screen out people to avoid this events?
This is just my point of view.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:17 pm

were the 2 planes on 911 from diffrent airlines? thought it was interesting that these 2 in russia were from diffrent airlines if they had both taken off from the same airport only a short time after eachother
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:25 pm

Miamix707,

I've never heard of a crash due to "fuel contamination" can someone tell me exactly what that's about?

Fuel contamination is where there is excessive water in the fuel, (thereby contaminating the fuel), and the water freezes at altitude and causes the engines to quit.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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mauriceb
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:41 pm

my thoughts are with the family from those who died in both crashes...



just on the news that the black boxes from both planes have been found.....











greetings maurice
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:41 pm

Do the Tupolev planes have Black boxes Or some sort of cockpit recording device? If they do, it always takes some time before they are recovered.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
CV990
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:43 pm


Hi!

In know that in the TU154's they have very good black boxes. If you go to homepage www.airdisasters.com or www.aviationsafety.net there are some very good CVR reports of TU154 crashes. Now the TU134 I'm not that sure.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:52 pm

Smcmac32msn:

Fuel contamination always takes place two hours after take-off

ALWAYS huh? Well, 2 hours would make sense for the aircraft that crashed 600 mi from Moscow, but what about the one that crashed 120 mi from Moscow? That doesn't make sense, now does it? Armchair Investigator.


Armchair investigator? If you would have cared to read my entire sentence, you would possibly have picked up the fact that I was doubting the fuel contamination scenario, and that the above phrase was used in irony. Apparently you didn't.

[Edited 2004-08-25 11:55:30]
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:04 pm

According to a Croatian internet portal, translated: "The message sent by one of the aircraft was an SOS, a call for aid, not a hijack warning as reported previously, say news agencies, calling upon official sources."

Regardless, my deepest condolences to the passengers, crews and families...
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077

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