Well I have had the run around from USAirways for the past week and a half. About two weeks ago (8/20/04) I booked a ticket from ATL-SYR and back. I was to leave ATL at 655pm for SYR via PHL on Friday the 3rd, then return Monday the 6th, leaving SYR to ATL via PIT at 615pm.

My first trouble started a few days after I bought the ticket. I received an Email stating that my outbound flight had been discontinued and I was re-booked on a 4pm flight. That would not work out for me because I have class until 320pm at the University of Georgia, about 70 miles from ATL. So after spending a hour on hold I was abel to get a 605pm flight through CLT that will get me to SYR earlier, which is great.

Now yesterday I received an Email stating that my returning flight had been discontinued and I was re-booked on a 320pm flight on Monday the 6th. I spent yet another hour on the phone with US, but it turns out that this is the last flight of the day out of SYR. I talked to CS agent would was somewhat helpful, but I ask for a supervisor eventually. The supervisor was less helpful and just down right mean. She told me very frankly that I had a choice to go no that flight, fly out the next morning (which I could not due to class) or get a refund. I asked if there was any compensation they could provide me for my lost time etc...And her only response was to read from the "terms and Conditions" statement..."USAIR holds the right to change departure times etc..."

Sorry for my ranting, but this has really pissed me off. US can just take 3 hours of my time away from me? I had things planned for Sunday afternoon at Syracuse University, but now those have to be scrapped, my time has been taken away from me and I get nothing in return, other than an ass of a supervisor!!! This is not right at all. I will right a letter of complaint to the airline, but other than that is there any course of action I can take? It just doesn't make sense to me, I paid for a 615pm flight, I guess you don't get what you pay for anymore huh?

p.s. This is even before I leave...I would have to say that my Trip Report is going to be just a LITTLE bit critical....

It's very unfortunate but as the supervisor said, you agreed to the terms and conditions when you originally booked the ticket. That's no consolation I know, but you could get the refund and take your flights with an alternative carrier. Cancelling flights is just another nail in the US Airways coffin and evidence that they probably won't be around much longer.

As far as your trip report goes I think you should give us a balanced view of the trip itself and not let your frustrations get in the way.

So you read things here everyday and yet you get angry with an airline that is in financial crisis. Take your refund or take your trip.

All airlines will be rescheduling flights now, since we are going into the slower season. It doesn't necessarily mean they're going under.

Getting mad at an agent will get you no where. We are ONLY the messengers.

Since they are willing to refund, I don't know that you would be entitled for any other comnpensation. What else would you want on top of getting all your money back? If the flight arrived late for what ever reason, you would not be compensated for "lost time". If other airlines have a schedule that accomadates you better, vote with your wallet and go there. Also, ROC is not too far from SYR, depending on where exactly you are going. I would expect that all of the airlines will be re-aligning thier routes and capcity for the Sept-early Nov time frame.

Sorry for my ranting, but this has really pissed me off. US can just take 3 hours of my time away from me?

US Airways did not 'take' your time - they rebooked you (which they are obliged to do) but as you then 'chose' to seek alternative flights, you gave US your time - not the other way round.

An airline cannot compensate passengers who are on hold for a Customer Service rep. Again, I sympathise with your situation, but as Trident said, you accepted their Terms and Conditions.

You have the right to a refund and the right to choose another carrier--which may be in you best interest, anyway.
Don't make the mistake that they 'owe' you anything beyond that---they don't.

Take the flight, or take the refund. This is a childish situation

I gotta go with the rest of the crowd on this one buddy...at least they informed you plenty of time in advance of the cancellation of the flight and offered to reaccomodate you. Beyond that I don't think you would be entitled to any further compensation. You could always drive and set your own schedule.

Hmmm.....ATL-SYR.....we could definitely help you out there. Come fly Independence Air  

Well, your rights, you have the right to fly or not to fly US Air now & in the future.

Hmmm.....ATL-SYR.....we could definitely help you out there. Come fly Independence Air

LOL... I was just about to say the same thing.  

There is a 7pm departure, via ORD, arrives ATL at 11:52pm. They are United flights, but carry a US share code. I would call US back, and request to be rebooked on these flights.

Most airlines, as a matter of customer service, will rebook you onto another airline, if they can't reaccommodate you as close to original times as possible. Same thing happened to me a few weeks ago with UA. They changed me from a 7pm to a 1pm departure. I couldn't do that because of appointments. They rebooked me on an 8pm AA departure. I had to go to the UA counter, have them print a ticket and endorse it over to AA.

If all else fails, and I've heard of this being done, call the President of the airline. You probably won't be able to talk to him, but you'd be surprised what a well placed secretary can do for you.

Good luck!

Jack

I hate to tell you that you are stuck, but you are. I've had AA drop an ORD-ATL flight. Now, they went ahead and booked me on a later flight, but they had no problem booking me on an earlier flight.

But what annoys me is when AA changes a flight number, and then changes my seat assignment on the same aircraft type. Griping at the agent is counterproductive. After all, it was the computer that switched seats.

The last flight on US metal does in fact leave SYR at 1510...

However, as we all know, US does codeshare with United. US has a codeshare on a United flight (US flight 7764 to IAD, leaves at 1910) that leaves in the evening, transfer at IAD to US flight 8047, which gets into ATL at 2321...they might be able to rebook you on these flights...call them back and ask specifically for these flights.

As for other carriers, it doesn't look great. Independence's website isn't offering anything after noon on Monday for SYR-ATL, and even there, the cheapest fare is $340. On other airlines, departing at your preferred times, the fare is well over $400...

Jeff

Well I would like to thank everyone for their comments. Although I don't think that this is a "childish" situation, I may have over reacted. Yeah it is only three hours, but that is a lot of time. I just didn't know if there was anything that can be done, but I guess not, thanks...and by the way I am taking the flight.

And to the INDY guys- I did check out INDY AIR, but there were no decent fares, even a month ago. $194 each way. Believe me I want to try you guys out, but not at those fares. Even going home for Thanksgiving it is $194 each way (that would be ATL-BOS/PVD). You guys watch your calendars pretty closely..jk

jc2354- I asked about that UA flight, but I was told that this could not be done, too bad. Thanks for checking that out though.

BOSugaDL,

So on my Air Canada MUC-YYZ flight, am I entitled to compensation because we were 2 hours late departing? Afterall, they did waste my time.

Of course not. Stop being ridiculous.

EmiratesA345

You have the right to whine ! ! !

Safe Flying  

Whine Whine Whine Oh and more Whine ! ! !

In all honesty. Aviation is a crazed business at the moment. There are always schedule changes in the fall. Unfortunately you got hit in the cross fire. But one thing is for sure. USAirways called you or contacted you before your departure date to offer you more options. That is great customer service recovery. Whether you wish to admit it or not. After all you could have just shown up at the airport for an "oh by the way" you have been rebooked.

Hi,
In this particular situation, you have no "rights", as you agreed to the conditions of contract of carriage (the small print provided to you on the back of the boarding pass or ticket, or the insert provided to you by your travel agent or airline). Even if you did not see or read that contract, you are considered to have agreed to it when you purchase the ticket.

With regard to schedule changes, in the USA, the CCC (condition of contract of carriage) for all carriers is terribly complex; however, it basically comes down to this: When you purchase a ticket, you enter into a contract with an airline to carry you from point A to point B on a specific flight with a specific departure and arrival time. If you fail to perform your obligation under that contract, e.g. travel on that flight or have paid to voluntarily change your flight, then the airline retains the right to declare a de facto breach of contract. In that event, the airline retains the right to void your ticket and keep your money.

As a pratical matter, airlines generally do not void your ticket if you cancel your reservation in advance of departure. However, if you no-show the flight and the seat goes empty, then the airline does have the right to void your ticket. Most US carriers enforce this policy as it relates to no-shows.

Now, looking at the contract from your perspective, the airline has an obligation to carry you from A to B at the time published in their schedule. If they change that schedule, they are required to do one of two things: a) offer you an alternative schedule or b) refund your ticket, if the schedule change occurs before your flight departure. In the event your schedule change comes while you are traveling, the airline has an obligation to contact you and advise you of the schedule change. If they make an attempt to contact and are not able to do so after three attempts, they have met their obligation to contact you regarding the schedule change.

As to options, the airline must offer you an alternate schedule or offer you or book you on another airline at their expense (the old CAB rule 240). A refund is not possible in this situation because refunds are predicated on what fare would be based for the portion actually traveled. Since that is almost always higher than the value of the original ticket, the rule 240 was instituted by the CAB in the 60s to protect passengers from financial loss due to airline schedule changes.

In the majority of cases, airlines are able to accommodate you within a reasonable amount of time on their own services. However (and this is more so on international flights), in some cases, in order to meet their obligation, they have to put you on another airline, or they have not met their obligation under the contract.

Just as an aside, the carrier's contract of carriage requires them to get you from a to b at the schedule published. When the carrier cannot do so because of a situation under which they have control (mechanicals, delays, etc), then they must put you on another airline and/or putting you up at their expense until they can get you out. In cases of events beyond the direct control of the airline: weather, ATC delays, airport emergencies, etc., the carrier would not have an obligation to do anything other than rebook you on another flight on their airline.

OK...now that I have described this in excrutiating detail, here is how these rules apply to your situation:

You were called in advance of your departure and advised of the schedule change. You were offered an alternate schedule or a refund. While those options may not be acceptable to you, that is the extent of the obligation the airline has with regard to your travel on their carrier. On the way home, you were advised of a schedule change, but you were not given an alternative other than flying on their own trip, which was inconvenient to you. If there was a flight on another airline at or about the time you were originally scheduled to travel and they did not offer that, then 'technically' they would be breach of contract, because they did not offer you that alternative.

If there was no flight other than their own service at the time they stated for the schedule change, then you were offered the only alternative that existed, and at that point, the airline has met their obligation under the contract.

You may have some rights; however, it really doesn't help you much. A portion of the conditions of carriage states that the limit of liability for breach of contract is the reimbursement of the cost of the ticket. This limitation exists because civil law does not permit someone to collect damages for an event that was unintentional as it related to your contract of carriage.

Are you totally confused now?

In other words, you would need to prove that the airline changed their schedule to intentionally inflict damage on you directly. Schedule changes are required for the operation of the airline, therefore you will never collect damages in that particular situation.

So where does that leave you?? Unfortunately for you, it leaves you nowhere. The airline met their obligation to advise you, offer you all possible options and once they have done that, then there is not much you can do.

The worst part of all of this is if people disservice you or treat you badly, there is nothing in the contract of carriage that provides for any remedy for poor service. Their obligation is strictly to take you from a to b at the times stated in their schedule, period.

Now, here is where you can help your situation. Airlines (and other transportation companies) profess they are service companies and have stated what their "customers' rights" are when you fly their airline. The more flying you do, the more influence you have. If you fly over 100K per year and pay full coach or First Class, you will more likely see some form of non-cash compensation as a customer goodwill gesture.

If you fly infrequently, your only option is to vote with your wallet and fly another airline. You cannot go to the press and make noise, because in most cases, the airline will sue you for slander and defamation (yes they do that) if you say anything other than the exact truth (hard to do when talking to the press, because you can be taken out of context very quickly), you are at some risk. It is minor, because the airline will in most cases not sue you unless you hurt them in a malicious way that becomes a big public issue.

Now, some practical advice: Get a travel agent to help you. They will in most cases give you alternatives, so you would have information that would help you in the event of a schedule change and having alternatives in your hip pocket when traveling gives you a certain amount of power to control your situation. Also, you do not have to make an instant decision regarding a schedule change. If you are advised of a schedule change, do not make a decision on the spot. Investigate your options before you make a decision re the schedule change. Lastly, do not schedule yourself tight. Leave sufficient time to cover you in the event you have a schedule change that may create inconvenience. If you don't have to be somewhere at a specific time, you will be in a better position to negotiate yourself into a better situation. NEGOTIATE? Yes. If you know the schedule and you work with the airline reservations agent, in most cases, you can negotiate yourself on another flight that will meet your needs.

In closing, in this time of flux in the airline business, you must expect something to go wrong. When you plan for problems and none happen, you are pleasantly surprised. If something does happen, then you are better prepared to deal calmly with the situation, so that when you deal with the airline, you can deal with them in a calm and rational manner. This last point is the single biggest factor in your ability to get what you want. If you are NICE and work with them, you usually will come out with more than if you are POd at them. At that point, you are at their mercy. Trust me, you don't want to be in that position.

I hope that you find this helpful.
Kind regards,
baw716

Unfortunately for you, it leaves you nowhere. The airline met their obligation to advise you, offer you all possible options and once they have done that, then there is not much you can do.

Obviously they didn't warn him of "all" of his options. Remember post #13? Here's a little refresher:

However, as we all know, US does codeshare with United. US has a codeshare on a United flight (US flight 7764 to IAD, leaves at 1910) that leaves in the evening, transfer at IAD to US flight 8047, which gets into ATL at 2321...they might be able to rebook you on these flights...call them back and ask specifically for these flights.

And that should pretty much sum up this sentence:

If there was a flight on another airline at or about the time you were originally scheduled to travel and they did not offer that, then 'technically' they would be breach of contract, because they did not offer you that alternative.

In summary, it is breach of contract on USAir's part. United also has a flight that leaves at 1928 from SYR, to IAD at 2048 (Flight #5591). Connection time is 37 minutes. Flight to ATL leaves at 2125 and arrives at 2321 (Flight #7179). Both flights still have tickets available... Now why can't they offer that?

While I do agree that the supervisor did handle the situation poorly, what she said was pretty much the truth. Being a CS agent myself there's only so much we can do when is comes to reaccomadating passengers. Airlines LOVE to change their schedules without notice...not even to the employees. Unfortunately it's the passengers that have to take it up the rear when they do it without notice.

I'm not 100% positive that US policy is the same as YV but if it is then, since the change in schedule did not take place while the passenger was actually on his trip or the passengers trip was not cancelled entirely before or during his trip then the airline is under no obligation to rebook the passenger, or make the passenger aware of the schedule, on another airline. Rule 120.20 or 240 is ONLY to be used as an absolute last resort when we, the airline, cannot get that passenger to their destination on the day of scheduled travel.

Airlines may have code share agreements but that doesn't mean we can freely book passengers on their flights. We only use it as a last resort and at that we have to ask permission and make damn sure the passengers we're booking on their flights are not going to oversell them.

I don't know if I added any insight into the situation, but that's about as good as it gets.  

I do agree that it sucks and I would suggest getting your refund and going to a different airline. I'm surprised they even offered the refund.

Later!

Baw716-
Thank you for that explanation and not belittling me and saying that I am a whiner or childish etc.... And no I was not confused I understand fully. I think that you understand my frustration and I hope that others do too. I bought ("entered into the contract") a ticket for 615pm. They changed that to 320pm. So from my end I feel as if they have not fulfilled their contract. And yet they have fulfilled the contract because they rebooked me and contacted me. Doesn't really make sense, but legally I guess it does. And that is all that counts.

As far as my statement for getting compensated:
All I did was ask the supervisor and this board. I was unsure what rules applied here. If there is a mechanical problem with aircraft that cause you miss a flight, you usually get some sort of compensated, which has happened to me in the past. I thought that might apply in this situation. I was wrong, end of story. I'm sure that if some of you were in my situation you would have a similar feeling. All I did was ask, I did not demand or expect any compensated. I don not think I deserve anything more than professional and courteous service. I would expect that anything and everything in their power be done to accommodate me. As I have learned, through the help of this board, that not everything was done for me. No flights on other airlines were offered, so that is my last step I'm going to take now. Thank you for those who responded in a positive manner.

In summary, it is breach of contract on USAir's part. United also has a flight that leaves at 1928 from SYR, to IAD at 2048 (Flight #5591). Connection time is 37 minutes. Flight to ATL leaves at 2125 and arrives at 2321 (Flight #7179). Both flights still have tickets available... Now why can't they offer that?

Probably because US does not want to pay UA no matter what?? US wants him flying on US, not the other airline.

Probably because US does not want to pay UA no matter what?? US wants him flying on US, not the other airline.

They are already paying them.... They DO have a code-share agreement, why not use it to make the customer happy? (Here comes the line I'll get flamed for) They obviously don't want him, or anybody else, as a customer if they aren't willing to re-book him on a codeshare flight. Shows how quick the ship is capsizing. (End of statement) You'd think somebody who has their reputation on the line as big as US does right now, they would do EVERYTHING in their power to have repeat business, and to keep the ship afloat.

As least you were notified of the change! Having been an agent, I can tell you many people don't learn of the sched changes until they arrive at the counter (and often they have missed the flt they were reaccom on). But generally that's only because the pax gave the carrier the wrong phone number to begin with.

Anyway, most carriers use some sort of robot that rebooks sched change affected flights for the closest timed flights and contacts the pax (nowadays it's an automated message too). If the robot fails in getting you rebooked (on same carrier only) within a set range of your old departure time, the record gets queued to Res and an actual person calls you to find out what you want to do. That sounds like what might have happened to you.

It's very odd to have a schedule change this close to the date of departure...usually they are done months in advance. The fact that you had two in the same reservation is extremely rare (I've never seen that). If you want to spend more time on the phone, I'd ask them to put you on another carrier, they just might...but to be honest you'll probably have better luck trying to change your itin at the airport w/ an agent. They are often more flexible than a res agent (however, IMO USAir isn't really known for going above and beyond at the airport either).

Good luck...

I have heard of the contract agreement you accept when you purchase a ticket. I have heard it referred to as the "Tariff". I saw a show once that indicated Air Canada's Tariff document referred to in the small print is a book 3 feet high. In simple terms they said the airline agreed to get you from a to b and no more. They could do it by plane, train or bus or horse, as long as you were transported a to b.

All that said and that above- I have tried to find a copy of the agreement or Tariff and have failed. Just for fun I wanted to read it (I am the kind of person who has read the transcripts of the Pearl Harbor hearings, Nuremburg trials and the Geneva Conventions for fun)-but could never track it down. Anyone know where the agreements or Tariffs can be found?

BoSugaDL- If you book a roundtrip ticket it's 20% off the price of 2 one way tickets plus if you joint the I-club it's an additional 25 dollars off your first round trip ticket...

Just My 2 Cents
FlyIGuy

BA97:

The tariff usually refers to the rules of a specific fare - for example, if you buy a ticket and the fare is called LX7NR (usually on your itinerary it just shows that you are booked in L class) there will be specific rules about that fare.

These include items such as:
-how many days in advance you have to purchase your ticket
-what dates this fare is valid for
-if you can change your ticket, and if there is a change fee
-if you can purchase the fare as a one-way, or return only

In Canada, the tariff has to be provided at any airline ticket counter when asked for by a passenger. Sometimes these are called the fare rules.

The conditions of contract of carriage (CCC) have to be provided to you with your ticket, or on demand. This is the huge amount of fine print that tells you the airline will get you from point A to B, but may stop at a point in between, or ship you on another airline. It also states (in Canada at least) that the PUBLISHED SCHEDULE FORMS NO PART OF THE CONTRACT AND TIMES SHOWN ARE GUIDELINES ONLY.

Also, if you have flights on separate tickets (example: Edmonton to Toronto on Air Canada, then Toronto to Halifax on Westjet) the airline has no responsibility for connections. This means if your Air Canada flight is late and you miss your Westjet flight, Air Canada has no obligation to compensate you for any expenses, and Westjet has no obligation to wait for you or rebook you because you didn't show up (although in my experience they are pretty good at accommodating these type of things). This is something most people don't seem to know, as many of you fellow agents have experienced passengers just come to the counter or call you up and start yelling and demanding.

Something else that is not guaranteed by your CCC: meals or seat assignments. I've had passengers yell at me at the counter because they booked a window seat and now they don't have one (due to an aircraft change). One day I just couldn't get through to this guy, the flight was completely full, and he just kept yelling about his rights and would not listen to reason. I picked up his ticket and said "These are the conditions of contract of carriage that bind you as a passenger, and us as an airline. Show me in here where is says anything about you getting a window seat and I will give you one."

Sometimes diplomacy fails and you have to resort to alternate measures...