About 2 weeks ago I flew on 4 legs with different Comair CRJs and then I saw yet another when i was taking pictures at my airport. What I am talking about is how awful their planes look.
In the cabin, the windows have such extreme scratches, window shade doesn't stay up unless you shove some paper in between the plastic, some seats were not sold because they had red tape across them saying "broken - do not use", interior plastic parts are just plain dirty, exterior paint is dirty... And on the one I saw but did not fly on, the paint was so badly chipped off the side that there were big chunks of grey and half the word "Delta" was missing.
Now, to me as a flyer what image does that present? Not a good one. These planes were the older 100ER....but hey, I have flown on some old planes like a 25 year old Delta 727, even an L1011, and Southwest has some vintage 737-200 models from the early 80s which were still pretty nice inside....and the CRJ is only from 1994.
I just got back from a trip on another regional airline, American Eagle. They fly the Embraer jet, and theirs were nearly new and the one from 1998 was still in good shape. I even flew on Continental Express and Northwest Airlink earlier this year and they were nice looking also. Comair needs to pay attention to maintenance and appearance because it is for the public image.
Or maybe they just have the attitude that hey, he paid a low fare so that's what he gets.
bruce
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Comair Has Bad Image.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
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- ZASpringboks
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
When was the last time you saw your city mass transit bus clean? These aren't legacy widebody airliners representing a nation, they are just another form of mass transit. They are intended to get the guy wearing the suit and carrying a brief case from point A to B to C as quick and efficient as possible.
Do you want a hot face cloth with that $222.00 Round Trip ticket? Just kidding!
Do you want a hot face cloth with that $222.00 Round Trip ticket? Just kidding!
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
Since Comair was taken over by Delta it has been a downhill slide.
Expect to see a major announcement regarding RJs and DL soon.
Expect to see a major announcement regarding RJs and DL soon.
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
If you think Comair is bad, try ASA....LOL.
The only regional jets I will fly on is Independence's CRJs and I fly a lot on COEX's ERJs.....gotta love the "A" seats on the ERJ's.
Speaking of Independence, I really like them and hope they do well, but if anyone out here flew on the RDU based Midway Airlines......its a striking resemblance....service and such...its like a reincarnation of Midway! Good service, nice leather interiors, low cost CRJ hub-and-spoke carrier...hmm.
Seriously though, ASA and Comair interiors on the older jets are quite bad....perhaps they will be included in the better interior upkeep part of the "Delta Solution"
The only regional jets I will fly on is Independence's CRJs and I fly a lot on COEX's ERJs.....gotta love the "A" seats on the ERJ's.
Speaking of Independence, I really like them and hope they do well, but if anyone out here flew on the RDU based Midway Airlines......its a striking resemblance....service and such...its like a reincarnation of Midway! Good service, nice leather interiors, low cost CRJ hub-and-spoke carrier...hmm.
Seriously though, ASA and Comair interiors on the older jets are quite bad....perhaps they will be included in the better interior upkeep part of the "Delta Solution"
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I personally like Comair, although ive only flown on them twice. One was a CVG-IAD leg, and the other a ATL-CVG. Both the jets were clean i would say, i did like Air Wisconsin and Atlantic Coast more though. i have flown more on UA Express than Delta Connection. ORD-FAR, FAR-ORD, ORF-ORD, ORD-LIT, LIT-ORD actually.
TWA902
TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
Did someone say Midway?! J/K.
I think Comair is a good company. But as someone else mentioned I think they were better before DL took them over. I think they really hurt their public image a few years ago when their pilots were on strike for a few months (IIRC). They have a decent operating record as far as I'm concerned and a TON of RJ's...I don't know how many.
Yeah LXJTEBGA, Independence reminds me of Midway too. They have a bunch of ex-Midway employees/crew members too, and their routes are similar with IAD as the hub.
I think Comair is a good company. But as someone else mentioned I think they were better before DL took them over. I think they really hurt their public image a few years ago when their pilots were on strike for a few months (IIRC). They have a decent operating record as far as I'm concerned and a TON of RJ's...I don't know how many.
Yeah LXJTEBGA, Independence reminds me of Midway too. They have a bunch of ex-Midway employees/crew members too, and their routes are similar with IAD as the hub.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
Personally, I've never had an unpleasant experience with Comair. I find their inflight service to be FAR superior to Delta's mainline flights. The F/A's are consistently friendly and attentive.
I can not argue however that Comair's reputation has suffered under Delta's rule. The vast majority of that stems from the treatment of Comair's employees. Many things changed after Delta purchased this close-knit Cincinnati-based company. The 2001 Pilot's strike also has left lasting and permanent division amongst Comair employees.
Comair also suffers from the mis-use of the Regional Jets. Let's remember that these aircraft were never intended for the type of stage lengths that they now routinely operate. In my opinion, Delta is the most abusive of all the majors with the utilization of their RJ fleet.
I can not argue however that Comair's reputation has suffered under Delta's rule. The vast majority of that stems from the treatment of Comair's employees. Many things changed after Delta purchased this close-knit Cincinnati-based company. The 2001 Pilot's strike also has left lasting and permanent division amongst Comair employees.
Comair also suffers from the mis-use of the Regional Jets. Let's remember that these aircraft were never intended for the type of stage lengths that they now routinely operate. In my opinion, Delta is the most abusive of all the majors with the utilization of their RJ fleet.
Got time to spare? Go by air!!
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I've flown OH several times, and have had pleasant albeit rather blase experiences (in that nothing stood out good or bad really).
I've been on some of their new RJs that look great, but I've been on some dogs too. Some of their older RJs are starting to show their age and look a little long in the tooth.
I've been on some of their new RJs that look great, but I've been on some dogs too. Some of their older RJs are starting to show their age and look a little long in the tooth.
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
Do you mean they are operating stages shorter or longer than they were intended for? How does Comair compare to other RJ operators in stage length? I do know they have some awfully short flights.
Their planes just look old and abused.
Their planes just look old and abused.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I've noticed several Comair jets at both ORD and MDW and they were filthy, almost as bad as AF 
! I have flown AWAC, Chautauqua and Eagle. AWAC's facilities at ORD were very shabby but the CRJ was clean with indifferent service. Eagle's RJs were clean with ok service. Chautauqua was the best RJ experience I have had. The aircraft were flown as AA Connection. Both crews were very friendly and attentive. The aircraft were spotless inside and out. No wonder Chautauqua wins awards as the best regional carrier!
! I have flown AWAC, Chautauqua and Eagle. AWAC's facilities at ORD were very shabby but the CRJ was clean with indifferent service. Eagle's RJs were clean with ok service. Chautauqua was the best RJ experience I have had. The aircraft were flown as AA Connection. Both crews were very friendly and attentive. The aircraft were spotless inside and out. No wonder Chautauqua wins awards as the best regional carrier!
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I've flown on Comair many times (although my last flight on them was in December) and I've always been happy with them. My flights were all on-time, the crews were usually decent, and their facilities at CVG aren't bad...it would be great to have individual gate areas for each plane but I still think their terminal at CVG beats places like ORD T2 and ATL Concourse C where each gate serves 4 or 5 flights. On the other hand, I've encountered many delays, rude staff, dirty aircraft, etc with ASA...not to mention having the pleasure of using their hodgepodge Concourse C (although Comair does use that in ATL, too).
How do they compare to other regionals in my opinion? I've flown on Pinnacle, Mesaba, American Eagle, ASA, Comair, AWAC, ACA, and SkyWest and I'd say that Comair would be near the top...not the best but definitely one of the better ones. I'd probably say the best regionals I've been on are Mesaba (although it's been years since I've last flown on them), American Eagle, and Pinnacle.
How do they compare to other regionals in my opinion? I've flown on Pinnacle, Mesaba, American Eagle, ASA, Comair, AWAC, ACA, and SkyWest and I'd say that Comair would be near the top...not the best but definitely one of the better ones. I'd probably say the best regionals I've been on are Mesaba (although it's been years since I've last flown on them), American Eagle, and Pinnacle.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
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- BCAInfoSys
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I haven't flown Comair, but from your description, it sounds like I'll be avoiding them in the future.
If any of you want my opinion (which I'm sure you don't, but I'll give it to you anyway), if you want a quality regional airline, flying QX (Horizon). They are downright AMAZING in their aircraft, service, etc.. The prices are a little steep, but hey, you get what you pay for.
Steve
If any of you want my opinion (which I'm sure you don't, but I'll give it to you anyway), if you want a quality regional airline, flying QX (Horizon). They are downright AMAZING in their aircraft, service, etc.. The prices are a little steep, but hey, you get what you pay for.
Steve
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
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- AzoresLover
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I aggree about Horizon - great airline!! But my favorite regional jet so far has to be the RJ-85 of NW. I've flown the BAC-146 on United and the RJ-85. (Forgive me, I'm not an industry person, just a frequent flyer who loves planes and following the industry - aren't these two designations the same aircraft?)
I've flown Comair a few times, always on the CRJ - haven't had the opportunity to fly the CR7 yet. I've never had a problem with Comair; I'm just not a fan of the CRJ - too cramped, not much headroom in a window seat, windows not at a good height. I love the ERJ series, especially the 45.
But whenever possible when connecting on NW in Detroit, I try to get a ride on the RJ-85, and recommend it to my friends when they fly.
I've flown Comair a few times, always on the CRJ - haven't had the opportunity to fly the CR7 yet. I've never had a problem with Comair; I'm just not a fan of the CRJ - too cramped, not much headroom in a window seat, windows not at a good height. I love the ERJ series, especially the 45.
But whenever possible when connecting on NW in Detroit, I try to get a ride on the RJ-85, and recommend it to my friends when they fly.
Those who want to do something will find a way; those who don't will find an excuse.
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- syncmaster
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
AzoresLover, yes the BAe-146 and RJ-85 are the same.
Personally, as a huge DL (and UA) fan I've never had any problems with Comair's aircraft being dirty or not taken care of, the same with ASA which I was just on Wed. night and it was in great condition. I'm sure there a few that get used and abused more than others but they are working on it and half a million other things at the same time. Don't worry they'll take care of it.
Personally, as a huge DL (and UA) fan I've never had any problems with Comair's aircraft being dirty or not taken care of, the same with ASA which I was just on Wed. night and it was in great condition. I'm sure there a few that get used and abused more than others but they are working on it and half a million other things at the same time. Don't worry they'll take care of it.
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- SleepyFlyBoy
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I think you people are worried about the wrong things. I am a hell of a lot more interested in the functionality and the maintenance program of the jet over how it looks on the outside. Inside the jets are usually kept very clean... As clean as aircraft can be kept. CRJ's are tough planes and are flown every day so paint will chip and windows will crack... it happens on every airliner. comair has a lot of older crj's and are phasing out the older ones with newer ones... comparing the old ones on the way out of the fleet with brand new ERJ's is ridiculous. why would you repaint a plane that isn't going to be in the fleet in a couple of years? Painting an aircraft is major cash... cash that an airline doesn't have to spend. As long as the plane is airworthy, safe, and comfortable for the passengers... the plane could be crap brown for all I care. Sure the people that fly the airline that haven't been around aviation might think it looks bad but if they asked a member of the crew I could guarantee that they would tell them that the paint job means nothing to the safe operation of the flight. I would rather my company worried about maintenance over looks.
kick the tires and light the fires
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
Comair does have the oldest CRJ's in the US, because they were the first to get them. Some of the aircraft are almost halfway to their cycle limit. Compare an older aircraft to a newer one, and of course the newer one will look better. Some of the planes may look rough, but it is a matter of priorities. Do you want to spend $80,000 or so on paint when money is tight, or do you want to spend it on spare parts inventories? Cmr also has very high utilization rates. They average close to 11 flight hours per plane, per day. Not much time left to wash and wax them. Paint and scratches are among the lowest of my concerns when I look at a plane.
Proud OOTSK member
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- tristar2000
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
First of all, a paint job never tells the whole story... I've worked on both airline and private planes, and I've seen clean airworthy planes with an old used scratched paint job, and I've seen clean paint jobs on planes that had major maintenance problems. It is all a matter of priorities, but it is true that the customer will compare how clean the planes look and often make a choice because this is what he sees!
Think of it this way, a nice paint job can be an easy way to hide what you don't want people to see!!! (This doesn't apply to new planes)
I haven't flown all that much with the regionals... I've flow Continental Express twice on ERJ-145s and Usair Express (Mesa) twice on CRJs and I enjoyed every flight. But let me tell you one thing, I work in the field and I have never heard negative statements about Comair until today, although I had observed that the planes sometimes did look dirty. I have never flown them but I would fly with Comair anytime!!!
And yes the CRJs are tough little beasts... sure you don't get as nice a window, but at least they don't break in half when they make a hard landing like their Brazilian counterparts have in the past!!!
Mechanics I know who have worked on both all say the CRJ is a much tougher reliable plane... although I feel safe in any of the 2.
Best regards,
Steven
Think of it this way, a nice paint job can be an easy way to hide what you don't want people to see!!! (This doesn't apply to new planes)
I haven't flown all that much with the regionals... I've flow Continental Express twice on ERJ-145s and Usair Express (Mesa) twice on CRJs and I enjoyed every flight. But let me tell you one thing, I work in the field and I have never heard negative statements about Comair until today, although I had observed that the planes sometimes did look dirty. I have never flown them but I would fly with Comair anytime!!!
And yes the CRJs are tough little beasts... sure you don't get as nice a window, but at least they don't break in half when they make a hard landing like their Brazilian counterparts have in the past!!!
Mechanics I know who have worked on both all say the CRJ is a much tougher reliable plane... although I feel safe in any of the 2.
Best regards,
Steven
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
flyI!
They'll give ya hot towels on a $222 RT ticket, and even cheaper
Really!
-Mr. X
They'll give ya hot towels on a $222 RT ticket, and even cheaper
Really!
-Mr. X
What now?
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I flew on four different OH planes in the past week and they, although not spotless they were clean enough and the planes were definately old. I was in the C concourse in CVG for a while and I saw two turns at each gate and out of the 79 gates that i just aimlessly saw while sitting on the bus going back and forth from the A and B concourse it seemed that out of all the planes were visible only a handful of planes were "dirty" and "scratched". For how hard and how crappy the weather they fly them in, its amazing how good the fleet is staying together. Great job Comair.
XJR
XJR
Look ma' no hands!
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I don't want to be a nit picker, but actually Bae-146 and RJ-85 are NOT the same.
There are three versions of Bae-146s which are series -100, -200 and -300. Series 100 is the smallest and 300 biggest but otherwise those are very similar. Later British Aerospace did some modifications and upgrades to Bae-146 family and those were renamed as RJ-70/85/100. Those upgrades were new engines, totally new avionics and some other changes as well. RJ-70 is replacement for Bae146-100, RJ-85 for Bae146-200 and RJ-100 for Bae146-300.
The production of Bae146s ended when the production of RJ-70/85/100s started. RJ-70/85/100s have better range, are more economical, quieter and easier to maintain than Bae146s.
Northwest has only RJ-85s...
Best Regards,
FinnWings
There are three versions of Bae-146s which are series -100, -200 and -300. Series 100 is the smallest and 300 biggest but otherwise those are very similar. Later British Aerospace did some modifications and upgrades to Bae-146 family and those were renamed as RJ-70/85/100. Those upgrades were new engines, totally new avionics and some other changes as well. RJ-70 is replacement for Bae146-100, RJ-85 for Bae146-200 and RJ-100 for Bae146-300.
The production of Bae146s ended when the production of RJ-70/85/100s started. RJ-70/85/100s have better range, are more economical, quieter and easier to maintain than Bae146s.
Northwest has only RJ-85s...
Best Regards,
FinnWings
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- AzoresLover
- Posts: 756
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
FinnWings - Thank you for that info. That's the kind of info I like to know about the planes I fly on. I had heard a couple years ago that they were basically the same plane, but now I know the details of the evolution of the BAe146 to the RJ series. I appreciate your post!
Those who want to do something will find a way; those who don't will find an excuse.
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
AzoresLover,
Nice to hear that my post was useful for you! I also agree with you, the RJ family is very comfortable... especially in 3+2 seating configuration which some airlines have.
Happy Flights!
FinnWings
Nice to hear that my post was useful for you! I also agree with you, the RJ family is very comfortable... especially in 3+2 seating configuration which some airlines have.
Happy Flights!
FinnWings
RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
I wonder when we'll see a CRJ sitting in a boneyard getting parted out? Or if Comair will keep refurbishing them like NWA does with their DC9 fleet.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
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- tristar2000
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RE: Comair Has Bad Image.
In terms of ending up in a boneyard quickly, the MD-11 family cannot be beaten IMHO, although that's a different story!!!
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