Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

wimpycol · Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:32 am

Hallo, HOLA, Hello

Just got some news and thought to share it with you guys.

SATENA:
It is supposed that by November Satena will receive their 3rd ERJ. Another step to a total fleet of jets. But their Dorn's can still go one for many years from now.

WEST:
One of WestK’s ATR's (VP-BNH) will be returned to the lessor. Titles and logos have been removed and the plane is parked nearby EOH’s Terminal. I've got a sadly foto of this plane... somebody interrested?
On the other hand.... does this mean that WEST will soon receive a new MadDog in their fleet???

Some scraps:
A DC9 of Republica (HK-4084X) was scrapped, and last week the DC9 of INTER parked at CIAC (HK-2865X) received the same treatment, so three niners in two months, wow, but still a sadly end for these birds.

TAMPA:
TAMPA Airlines Cargo S.A. has change for Tampa Cargo S.A.
Aiming at seeking uniformity in the name of the company, the Colombian carrier TAMPA Airlines Cargo S.A. announced that their new corporate name is now Tampa Cargo S.A.
So TAMPA CARGO is the only Colombian carrier that doesn't put the COLOMBIAN titels on ther fusulage... why????... because of the fact that they're almost 100% in the hands of the Dutch cargo carrier Martinair???
For a second time, Tampa Cargo will participate at the Air Cargo Forum & Exhibition ACF 2004 in Bilbao, Spain from the 14th to the 17th of September 2004.
This will be the start of the launching of their new corporate image and their new fleet of B767 -200SF recording to their good looking website http://www.tampacargo.com/main.htm Cant wait to see the new B767 of TAMPA.

INTER:
Beleive it or not...... Intercontinental is suspossed to resume their flights.
Inter plans to resume by the end of September flights to and from Cali, Pasto, and Cucuta and to continue with traditional routes.
For more info on this see the portafolio website:
http://www.portafolio.com.co/hist_imp/porta_secc/porta_nego/2004-09-06/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR_PORTA-1785742.html
And I thought that we already had said goodbye to this Colombian airline.

Saludos
Willem Alberto

Fokker50 · Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:49 am

Well, i traveled this weekend, and when I was arriving to airport, i saw two DC-9's, one from P5 and the other one from Inter. I was asking myself, but as you thought, INTER was in bankrupcty and this would be the end of this little Colombian airline.

From the news of Satena, it's good that this airline has a good development in the market, provig it with their thir and final ERJ.

Tampa, I think they don't put the Colombian name in their a/c because they are not 100% from Colombia. They are half from the MartinAir consolidation.

Hope it helps,

Fokker50

miamiair · Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:55 am

Any news on what Aero Sucre has been up to?

Fokker50 · Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:10 am

Well, AeroSucre, I think they have the same status since ever...... Smile

Fokker50

RCS763AV · Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:20 am

AeroSucre:

-Old planes
-Gross livery
-No image with the public
-Cheap everything.

tavong · Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:49 am

Well about INTER iis strange to see that they wold fly again they have scrapped one of their DC-9 i wonder if they would use only one DC-9 or at least they got the 733s flying...or what the hell they have did to keep flying....

AeroSucre:

-Old planes
-Gross livery
-No image with the public
-Cheap everything.

Where what is cargo arilines supposed to?? Big grin

Almost no cargo airline in Colombia has image with the pubic :P

Gus
SKBO

P.D. SOUTHAMERICA tenias razon el maldito DC-9 si era de INTER pero no era un -32 HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

tavong · Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:55 am

According to the Portafolio article seems that we will keep the same DC-9-15 flying..........hasta que san juan agache el dedo :P

Gus
SKBO

Southamerica · Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:39 pm

Thanks for opening the thread Wimpycol, but nothing new there...

The thing with the TAMPA name was posted several weeks ago in another thread...

There is a big mistake that I believe is very important to note: SATENA already has 3 ERJ-145s !

Here are the shots (FAC-1170, FAC-1171 and FAC-1172 respectively):

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrés Dallimonti Restrepo

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Cesar A. Poveda S.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mauricio Reyes Betancourt

Note that FAC-1171 and -1172 have the 2004 stickers in the engines.

In case they are receiveing the fourth ERJ, great news for them.

-----------------------------------

As a side note, and in case some of you haven't already noticed it, AIRES already have their second Dash flying in new colors. It's a -100 this time, and it's been rotating all over their routes during the past days, so pretty good chance to see it.

SOUTHAMERICA

wimpycol · Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:47 pm

Hello SouthAmerica,

Sorry about the TAMPA stuff, I didn't know it already was discussed on A.net. I only posted it because of another post:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1731190/6/
So the 1st B767 for Tampa could be :
Ex-Varig B767-241ER PP-VNQ [23804], previously stored at Goodyear, was re-registered N767QT and ferried GYR-TUS-SNN on 11Dec-2003.
But please correct me if i'm wrong!!!
Maybe i can spot this bird next Saturday when i will visit (Schiphol) AMS

About SAtena.
I must correct you on this: Satena currently have 2 ERJ's
Last year (28th December 2003) when I was in Colombia I saw the 1st of the 2 new ERJ's that Satena would receive
FAC-1171 (c/n 145-774) ex-PT-SME Milenium 1 and the 2nd
FAC-1172 (c/n 145-776) ex-PT-SMF Milenium 11 was delivered 12 January.
So on that moment I also thought they had 3 ERJ's!
But The first example received, FAC-1170 (c/n 145-003) ex-PT-ZJD was returned to EMBRAER as PP-XKN on 09 January of this year.They leased it from EMBRAER for some while to try it out.
It was good to return that one, it was one of the first ERJ's worldwide, third in line!. So it was an old one and EMB had tested many flights with 145-003.
The current 2 where delivered brand new from their factory to Satena, so will the next one. All ERJ's from Satena are on leasing base.

Thanks for the news on AIRES... hope that they soon have painted their whole fleet. This second one in the new colors is also the latest in their fleet.

/////

What a nice words about INTER in these posts...jajajaja.
Well I hope they will be flying next time when I will come to Colombia so I can take pics of them!

Willem Alberto

miamix707 · Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:25 pm

there are what seem to be some A.net photographs under "Fleet" one taken in Miami the other in JFK

Los colores lucen mucho mejor on the shorter fuselage of the 762s

tavong · Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Well for me was a surprise to see that they would fly again, it's good for their employees and for the people using their routes, anyway they need to think what they would do and do fast cause their DC-9s seems that will not last too much......maybe we will keep another thread and many of us will see it familiar "when Inter will get rid of the DC-9s???" Big thumbs up

I have seen the new logo on their tails, it's great, good to see they got a fresher image but the gold and blue wheren't that bad :P

Gus
SKBO

av757 · Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:02 pm

I don't see how intercontinental Colombia can restart operations as a commercial airline again, if they do not comply with the three airplane minimum mandated by the Colombian Aerocivil for comercial airline operation; where are they going to get cash to lease airplanes? They have not negotiated and come to terms and agreements with their debtors yet. And they never operated the Boeing 737's because they never managed to get authorization or an operating permit for them from the Colombian Aerocivil.

I hope they get to restructure somehow for the creation of jobs because there are approximately 6000 people left jobless in the last two years from the aviation industry here in Colombia after the disappearance of Aces, Aerotaca, and Inter. And also from the creation of the now defunct Alianza Summa from Avianca and Sam.

Satena as far as I am concerned is unfair competition for the rest of the airlines here in Colombia, it lost its identity as a subsidized airline by the Colombian Government through the Air Force to serve and operate the marginal places that were not served by any other airlines or means of transportation. Right now they are operating the mayor hub routes with the ERJ's with impossible to beat low cost prices by the other airlines of Colombia.

West Caribbean has no room to expand since at the last two public hearings they could not get any new route approvals from the Colombian Aerocivil, and right now they have under utilization of their DC9-80's (MD-80's).

We hope to see the airlines that got operating permits, such as Universal and Estelar manage to start operating soon or else they will loose their route rights; if they do not start operation soon they will loose their operating permits; maybe then Aerorepublica, West Caribbean, Avianca and Sam could get their routes. Allowing the Colombian Aerocivil to redistribute the routes that were assigned to Universal and Estelar.

AV757

planeguy · Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:02 am

Aerocivil should be dissolved. Hard to believe how in this day in age some government agency can interfere with competition. Everyone loses. The public is stuck with high fares and ex-employees go without jobs-not good.

MATURRO727 · Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:03 am

Hey!

hello, I think that it's great news for Satena !!! they are growing fast and secure, Inter for me its over, although they restart their flights with those old and insecure planes, the people will stop flying Inter and start choosing West, P5, Aires, Avianca etc...

by the way what happened with Fenix S.A., and what will happen with Inter's 732s?

Thanks

P.D. SOUTHAMERICA, I think I won when I told you a few months ago that Avianca had change their livery from Summa to the red one again. So sorry, this time you were wrong !

MATURRO727

Cheers ! (specially for SOUTHAMERICA)

tavong · Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:00 pm

Aerocivil should be dissolved. Hard to believe how in this day in age some government agency can interfere with competition. Everyone loses. The public is stuck with high fares and ex-employees go without jobs-not good.

And you beleive that in USA with the "freedom of competition" there are a lot of jobs????? don't you see already the results of the de-regulation, almost all airlines near-broken and un-employement growing everyday.....de-regulation is not the best way to make airlines grow and where is little space for competition there should be some kind of regulation. IMHO.

Anyway has always i'm open to hear your tougths...

Gus
SKBO.

Southamerica · Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:20 pm

I think that if INTER has the oportunity to come back, it would be great, as long as there is market for them.

Now that AV757 talks about infair competition from SATENA, I must say that the case is even worse when you find out that the actual route is Bogota-Medellin-Apartadó. It makes you think that the first part of the route is there to catch the business traffic, but the second half, although being a good performer segment, is mostly there to retain the title of service to smaller markets in far away places....

MATURRO727, You know you're wrong, as always. Cut it, and get over it please. Thank you.

SOUTHAMERICA

Southamerica · Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:35 pm

Tavong,

I also consider that it's necessary, to some extent to have an organism of authorities that controls the local market, specially in a place where things are leaning towards the crowded side.

But I pretty much disagree with the fact that the Aerocivil has such a protective attitude towards players in the international market, in the bottom, the only thing they are doing is bringing up national airlines like spoiled brats, and letting them not be fully-competitive as they should be.

I also tend to disagree with the fact that, as many national institutions, Aerocivil is swarming with corruption and personal interests, and as local magazine once said, aeronautical things administrated by people who know everything about politics but probably nothing about airplanes.

SOUTHAMERICA

MATURRO727 · Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:55 pm

Hey !

SOUTHAMERICA:

I'm wrong ??? Don't you remember few months ago ? "I really don't think because the puente aerio its brand new the plane seats the uniforms bla bla bla...

please please stop that rude attitude !

MATURRO727

Southamerica · Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:03 pm

So, MATURRO727, would you please kindly explain what has changed? has the livery changed in all the fleet, or at least half of it? have the interiors changed? have the uniforms changed? The only think I've seen changed is the check-in counters, but that's becaue the Summa brand dissapeared, NOT because they're returning to the red again.

Explain please. I'm listening

SOUTHAMERICA

tavong · Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:18 pm

"......But I pretty much disagree with the fact that the Aerocivil has such a protective attitude towards players in the international market, in the bottom, the only thing they are doing is bringing up national airlines like spoiled brats, and letting them not be fully-competitive as they should be.

Well in that point i should agree, the international routes are really facing high fares caused low competition specially in the Colombia-Spain routes has talked before the AirMadrid case IMHO i think that there should be more competition BUT in a CONTROLED basis, de-regulation is not good and if the airlines aren't strong enougth the airlines tend to became weaker.

Anyway i should clarify that in the domestoc case the thing s are different, competiton have been arising even in a controled basis, so i think that in the domestic routes things are being doing fine but the international routes are other thing.

I also tend to disagree with the fact that, as many national institutions, Aerocivil is swarming with corruption and personal interests, and as local magazine once said, aeronautical things administrated by people who know everything about politics but probably nothing about airplanes.

Well nobody is perfect Big grin

But the fact is the in my opinion Aerocivil should be Cleaned and not dissolved but anyway that happens to a lot of institutions, anyway

Gus
SKBO

clipperno1 · Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:38 pm

Everybody, thanks for the info on the aviation in your part of the world.

Is there no LAN Colombia yet?!?!?!?! Confused

Southamerica · Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:54 am

Tavong,

Well in that point I should agree, the international routes are really facing high fares caused by low competition

Indeed, some are very very high. But there are some routes that simply cannot take more carriers flying it, like BOG-GRU-GIG for instance (which RG has been scaling back throughout the years as we've talked before).

I think that there should be more competition BUT in a CONTROLED basis, de-regulation is not good and if the airlines aren't strong enougth the airlines tend to became weaker.

Completely agreed. It's totally different to talk about quitting the paranoic ultra-protective behavior that the local authorities sometimes show, and another is to de-regulate completely. A total de-regulation would most certainly end up in a big mess.

Keep the discussion going, interesting as always with you man.

------------------------------------------

Is there no LAN Colombia yet?!?!?!?!

This is a question that most forigners ask when they see how LAN's fantastic umbrella has grown to the north. But no, not now nor in the near future, although I can't deny it would be interesting to see them arrive with bigger presence here.

But it won't happen, mainly because the aeronautical authorities would give them a really hard time to enter the domestic market, and the most important routes are already served by 3,4 or even 5 carriers probably at its full offer in some cases, specially in the shuttle routes.

SOUTHAMERICA

Fokker50 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:44 am

Well SOUTHAMERICA, you pass your limits this time, first with RCS763av, and now MATURRO727??? Remember, you're not the only one here that knows about aviation, why do you correct some users here that know more than you? Like the ones that are pilots, or flight attendants, stop your attitude of the I'm the best here, and you guys, you don't know nothing please, I'm telling you this because we want a discussion forum without sarcasm, or other stuff.

Fokker50

MATURRO727 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:00 am

Hey!

SOUTHAMERICA:

dude, haven't you seen the red fokkers yet ???

RCS763AV · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:13 am

Maturro727: The red fokker (not fokkers) is an aircraft that was stored and never painted in the butterfly livery and came into service in the red colors. Avianca is not changing their colorscheme in the near future.

MATURRO727 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:21 am

Hey

rsc767av:

thanks for your info and your corrections I appreciate very much I didn't know that, now how many fokker 50 do AV have now ??? EUFORIA MAG Said 10 e
always so now do they have 11 ?

Cheers!

MATURRO727

Fokker50 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:24 am

Well, RCS763av, and MATURRO727, you're kind of lost. This Fokker 8flew on it between BOG - BGA) was in the same conditions as it was sotred. With red livery, the seats were red and blue, not those from Aces, same safety cards ( as every F50), but the most interesting thing is that this Fokker is in the original state, same lather seats, smae interiors, same everything is like remember the old Av's days.......

Fokker50 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:27 am

MATURRO727:
In the euforia Mag, they said 10, they counted the stored one, so before they put again the F50 technically, they had 9. Is kind of curious.

MATURRO727 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:36 am

Hey!

thanks for your info fokker50 !

Regards

MATURRO727

RCS763AV · Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:24 am

Fokker50: I was saying exactly the same thing you corrected me for. Please read my post well.

Fokker50 · Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:13 am

You're right, is that i'm passing thought a big problem, so i'm a bit distracted, but OK, i'll take that as an advice, thnx.

Fokker50

717fan · Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:09 am

A little bit off topic:

-Any plans of Aerorepublica adding more MD-80's?
-Will Aviance stay with the MD-80 for the foreseable future?

For a DC-9/MD-80 enthusiast like me, Colombia's airports must be heaven....just the MD-90 and the 717 are missing....

Thanks

RCS763AV · Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:18 am

AeroRepublica will buy 2 or 3 more MD-83s for international routes. AV has not said anything about replacing the fleet, that is only like 12-13 years old.

Southamerica · Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:44 am

So, Mister MATURRO727, can you please from now on informe yourself a little bit more before you come here auto-declarating victory? Insane

hahahaha ! What about the AV DC-10s?? Innocent

--------------------------------------------------------------------

717fan,

You're aboslutely right, and believe me they are ! As you can see, almost all domestic trunk routes are operated by MD80-family aircraft, and it's great to fly on them.

SOUTHAMERICA

tavong · Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:19 pm

-Any plans of Aerorepublica adding more MD-80's?

Well don't know at this time nothing confirmed yet but is possible if they plan to open new routes.

-Will Avianca stay with the MD-80 for the foreseable future?
Since their fleet is not old enougth you should be able to see MD-8Xs quite a lot of time Big thumbs up

About 717s in Colombia i would like to see it here but i don't think it would be soon, but that plane could do wonderfull here. MD-90s well AirAruba used to bring some here but at this time nobody brings them, Sad

Also a wonderfull plane to sigth.

Gus
SKBO

717fan · Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:51 pm

Thank you guys! Nice that most of your airlines flying those good and reliable birds.....

757MDE · Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:51 pm

I was told by an AeroRepública Pilot that they plan to open International operations in not much time, initially to UIO and CCS, MIA has to wait as they're still in studies about the feasibility of that operation. For doing those flights, P5's board already agreed on investing on "new" MD-83s, so, if the international operations are finally begun, you can be sure about new mad dogs entering the already mad dog filled Colombian market.

Avianca has no inmediate plans for new fleet, and I think they won't retire the MD-83 in some time, it just fits them perfectly. They're perfect for Colombia's conditions, not too expensive to lease or operate, wide experience on them (it's more than 10 years now since they came)...

Until now I thought Satena still had FAC-1170 on their fleet, but thinking on it it's been a long time since I last saw it, I'll have to go to EOH soon to watch more closely... I'm confused now about FAC-1170.

717s in Colombia...the only carrier who ever showed interest on them is Inter, but we all know about Inter's funds trouble.

av757 · Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:23 pm

Avianca will be adding two more DC-9 series 80 (MD-80's) to its fleet in late November of this year for a grand total of 16. These will be used to fly to ADZ from CLO and MDE and replace the 757 on the BOG-AUA-BOG, and also all flights BOG-UIO-BOG will be flown on 757's. No more MD-80's to UIO.

14 in AV
2 in MM

The only remaining Fokker 50 with the red/white livery entered a mayor service and was supposed to be painted in the white/grey Summa colors, in late May 2003; then Aces went under on June of that year and the service was cancelled before the paint job was started, and the aircraft was stored until June of this year.

There are only ten F50's in the fleet.

5 in AV
5 in MM

Regards:
AV757

RCS763AV · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:02 am

So the fleet is growing to 38 aircraft? Nice. But someone posted that a 757 was being given back to the lessors. Im confused, will those 2 M80s replace it?

tavong · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:04 am

Thanks for the updated ifno guys.......great thinks seem getting better for AV.

Gus
SKBO

Fokker50 · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:12 am

Well, I hope some day AV and MM could take more Fokkers, they are little a/c, but are reliable for some Colombian routes such BOG - BGA, BOG - AXM, BOG, PEI, and others. Also they can replace some MD's with the new product of Boeing the 713. It would be great for AV to have those fleet updates.

And for P5, could be good for their future to take some ex -AA Fokkers and replace the DC-9 routes.

tavong · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:36 am

I think it would be great if AV could make those M-8x come bck to the routes they pulled them out, anyway at this time would be very unwise for the M-8x operators to change fleet since the M-8Xs are doing their job perfectly.

the Fokkers MAYBE could be usefull for the starter airlines but at this time and looking at how things are going here in Colombia there are more space for more MD-8Xs.

Gus
SKBO

Southamerica · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:40 am

These will be used to fly to ADZ from MDE

It is interesting to see, after so many years since Sam dropped the route, that Avianca is finally interested in re-enetering this market.

Although we are still yet to see how this route will perform for them; three carriers (Avianca, AeroRepublica and West) flying daily MD80s from Medellin to San Andres is a pretty questionable case...

Anyway, in my opinion AV should replace at least some Fokker 50s on the MDE-CTG and MDE-BAQ route before adding ADZ. They were once served them with an even mix between MDs and Fokkers, but unfortunately now those segments are all down to F50s, and competing with rivals that fly MD80s like AeroRepublica.

SOUTHAMERICA

Fokker50 · Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:57 am

Well SOUTHAMERICA:

AV and MM, dropped the route from MDE, because they thinked that this route was obsolete, but since paisas, are in disscusion with AV and MM, because they don't serve this route group AV, needed to think in an option. The only way that they don't loose more passengers, was to reopen the MDE - ADZ route.
And in the subject of retiring the F50's in the routes CTG - BAQ, is obsolete, because there are no such a density of passengers to fill up completelly or fill it in a way that AV don't loose money, they prefer to have in this routes Fokkers, P5, can't do the same because they only have "big" jets so they don't have a choce, they have lower fares than Av, so for them is easier to fill up an entire DC-9.

RCS763AV · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:02 am

MM also applied for the 7x a week CLO-CTG-ADZ route authority with AeroCivil. Maybe a new AV MD-80 will take part of the itinerary of one of MM´s M80´s and it will be free to fly the route.

757MDE · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:16 am

Fokker 50:
We paisas don't have any discussion with Avianca whatsoever for any route, nor MDE - ADZ nor the routes they left from EOH nor anything. The routes they left are quite good covered by other carriers.

I don't think reopening MDE - ADZ was "the only way not to lose more passengers", the only passengers they'll get are the ones that will fly MDE - ADZ with them when they reopen the route, they won't lose or gain anymore.

If the route was "obsolete" P5 would already have dropped the service, and AFAIK they're doing quite well on that, YH shows good loads also.

Southamerica · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:16 am

AV and MM, dropped the route from MDE, because they thinked that this route was obsolete

How do you know this? Give me FACTS please and I'll believe you. SAM operated MDE-ADZ way back from the time the had the 727s, and on to the RJs-100s. When the RJs were retired many routes got cancelled, among them MDE-ADZ.

Again: facts please !. Oh and it's "thought" not "thinked". Spell check needed urgently.

but since paisas, are in disscusion with AV and MM, because they don't serve this route

What need do we have to beg AV's ass for this route when we already have TWO airlines flying the route daily, one of them being ours may I ask? Insane

.

And in the subject of retiring the F50's in the routes CTG - BAQ, is obsolete, because there are no such a density of passengers to fill up completelly or fill it in a way that AV don't loose money, they prefer to have in this routes Fokkers, P5, can't do the same because they only have "big" jets so they don't have a choce, they have lower fares than Av, so for them is easier to fill up an entire DC-9.

hahahahahaha ! These arguments make me laugh to death ! Insane

.

Man, please, if you don't have real facts, then avoid replying with stupid things such as that, the only obsolete one here is you.

Look , if MDE-CTG could not fill a jet and if P5 had no choice, like you say, tell me Why did they recently started the route with daily MD8X??. If there were no demand, there would be no service, period. Simple logic, too hard for ya'?

SOUTHAMERICA

Southamerica · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:25 am

RCS763av,

MM also applied for the 7x a week CLO-CTG-ADZ route authority with AeroCivil

Now those would be good news. Cali has already a very poor intinerary to the northern coast, with only one nonstop flight a day to CTG; some more service would not be harmful.

SOUTHAMERICA

Fokker50 · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:34 am

Are real facts, that you don't have any support on this forum , that doesn't mean that you have to criticize us ( JUANR, MUTRRO727, and MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME), also this are not affirmations of sources, because if you know to much of aviation as you say, this things you look at the airport or in the travel agencies, they tell you that, so sorry this time (and not the first one) you don't have the reason here, and let me remember you this again and again,YOU'RE NOT THE GOD HERE, YOU ONLY ARE A MEMBER OF A WEB PAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO CORRECT US, WE PAY FOR IT, SO WE PUT WHATEVER WE WANT TO.

@TT : Fokker50

PD: so we write whatever we want to according to the rules.
See ya!!!!

Southamerica · Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:47 am

You just can't stop making me laugh ! Laugh out loud

Shame on you with such a vulgar tone, and look at your answer, you clearly don't know how to behave. Insane

As I absolutely do not care what you think of me, I am still waiting for FACTS that actually support what you said.

Are real facts, that you don't have any support on this forum

Thanks a lot, don't need it. I'm fine with support of those who have a slight idea of what they're talking about.

so we write whatever we want to according to the rules.

Do you perhaps know the meaning of the word quality? Enough with you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, it's interesting to see that UIO is apparently going from two daily MD83s and one 757, to all 757s. That probably means that demand is high and the route is working for them. Hope to see P5 flying that route soon.

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