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MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:46 am

Hey


Fokker50:

Ok now have you consider my second chance? (Same Owners, Change Tickets)

Cheers

MATURRO727
 
Fokker50
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:49 am

Well, MATURRO, as you know (don't know if...), WEST and AEROLINEAS UNIVERSAL / ESTELAR, are paralel airlines. Well is just a corious fact.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:57 am

Hey


Ok, So Mr. Fokker50, what will you do in this case ??? As you said, they don't have the obligation to give them the money back so, tell daddy that he lost his money !

Cheers

MATURRO727
 
Fokker50
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:03 am

What do you think that i'm telling you since post #97. Read first, and then, ask questions, before no.  Smile

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:06 am

Hey

Fokker50 : ok ok... Let me see you are asking something that you already know ? Think before writing no ?
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:11 am

Well, 757MDE, in the case of Aerolineas Universal, you have the reason, my dad bought a ticket in this airline, and what happened? He lost his money. The airline didn't had a response for that. Also When I saw the counters in BGA airport, I saw like a flight attendant giving publicity that their operations were going to start with five new A319, then they switched to the Fokker 100, and now for that decision, they will gonna' lost their permission to fly in the Colombian territory. I heard from a source, that Aerolineas Uiversal' owners were the same as West Caribbean.


They didn't lose any permit to operate due to chaging from A319 to F-100, it's that the aerocivil had some trouble approving the change, not the aircraft itself. In fact, the airline didn't lose any permit at all.

Universal owners weren't the same as WCA.
One of the first WCA founders (I even knew his name but forgot right now) is a man from San Andrés. WCA began, operated for some time and eventually he decided to quit and flee WCA.

He's the main man behind Universal, but when he decided to go for Universal he had nothing to do with WCA long time ago.

BTW, I', not so sure about that other thing of Universal and Estelar being parallel, from what I've heard and read, their only coincidence is being a start up (in theory at least) airline in Colombia, where did you get that from?.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:20 am

Hey


757MDE:

I think you read wrong, what Fokker50 mean was that WCA and Aerolineas Universal/Estelar were parallel airlines. (that's what I understand)

Saludos

MATURRO727
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:24 am

Hey!



ohhh and perhaps MDE757 I think Fokker50 was just being sarcastic when he wrote that phrase!

Saludos

MATURRO727
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:26 am

757MDE:

I think you read wrong, what Fokker50 mean was that WCA and Aerolineas Universal/Estelar were parallel airlines. (that's what I understand)

Saludos


I see.
Even if I read wrong WCA and Universal/Estelar are not parallel airlines, or not that I know at least.
Does anyone here have any facts to support that?
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:24 am

Hey!

Well not rely


Saludos


MATURRO727
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:58 pm

Universal owners weren't the same as WCA.
One of the first WCA founders (I even knew his name but forgot right now) is a man from San Andrés. WCA began, operated for some time and eventually he decided to quit and flee WCA.


I remembered the name now.
The guy is Hassan Tannir.
As I said, a man from San Andrés with family ties to Lebanon.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
Fokker50
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:44 am

Well 757MDE, you're right again, I was trying to look for it in the Internet and I found that the ex-owner of WCA is the same as the AEROLINEAS UNIVERSAL /ESTELAR, only that, when he started to think in the AEROLINEAS....... Project, he quit from WCA because he thanked was not necessary to be in both a/l, but as we say here, "se quedo sin el pan, y sin el queso".

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
a300aa
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:15 am

So universal don't have rights to operate in Colombia? Last months many pilots were at the simulators in AA , at DFW, being trained to operate the ex F100 from AA, apparently they were leasing 4 of them , to operate them in Colombia.
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:32 am

At this time noonew knows what is happening to thme, they needed to start operations some months ago, but since they never started operations at the scheduled time they lost the permission for operations.

Gus
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Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:00 pm

At this time noonew knows what is happening to thme, they needed to start operations some months ago, but since they never started operations at the scheduled time they lost the permission for operations.

Gus
SKBO


I didn't hear they lost operating permit completely, but they were indeed having serious trouble with Aerocivil.

So it's a fact they no longer have permission to fly?
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:06 pm

Thank you A300AA.
If indeed there were pilots training on AA simulators, then things might be happening with AeroUniversal. It'd be good to see some F100s in a new liverly!
They'd better start soon, or the route rights they gained will be dished out to other operators.
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:26 pm

I didn't hear they lost operating permit completely, but they were indeed having serious trouble with Aerocivil.

So it's a fact they no longer have permission to fly?



Well i've read that if Universal don't start operation at a time limit they would lose their permission (i don't remember EXACTLY the date cause i lost the magazine where i read that) and the date was months ago so i think they lost their permission to fly but i don't know if Aerocivil has put the plug on them or are finally giving more time, so I hope that they still havethe permission and only need some time but has been quite a lot of time since they got the permission.

Gus
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Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:14 am

Ahh I see, same had I read.
Just a matter of waiting then.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
a300aa
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:56 am

I think that they have more time to start, otherwise they wouldn't send people for training, by the way most of them are ex VX pilots.
An airline has certain time to start or resume flights in Colombia, but it can be negotiated, that's why AA still has rights to operate its BAQ MIA flight .
The permission expired on April this year, two years later after they stop flying, but now they are paying to Aerocivil a certain amount of money to keep the route.
 
soamsky
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:28 pm

" AA still has rights to operate its BAQ MIA flight .
The permission expired on April this year, two years later after they stop flying, but now they are paying to Aerocivil a certain amount of money to keep the route."


I read here some where AA had to drop MIA-Barranquilla flight in favor to MIA-Medellín. Can anybody clear this up?

Regards
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
airways1
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:52 pm

Do you know if any of those Columbian airlines have printed timetables? I have a collection of over 50000 timetables from around a 1000 different airlines, but still have no timetables from airlines such as Inter, Satena, Aires, West Caribbean etc.. I would love to get my hands on a copy...

 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:07 pm

OF course some of them have printed timetables, Aerorepublica and Satena, Avianca has them too but is too darn difficult to find them.

Gus
SKBO

Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:23 pm

AV will operate all UIO flights in Boeing 757´s because of the high passenger load factor on the route

Does anybody know what are Aeropostal's loads on the BOG-UIO-BOG route?
 
a300aa
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:09 am

AA Has rights to operate flights out of BAQ; MDE; CLO and BOG. They suspended their flight to BAQ due to the financial crisis of sept 11, and low demand by that time, on the other side they had the authorization to start flights out of MDE. A rumor is that they will be trying to resume flights to BAQ on summer 05 or combine them with CTG, only on a seasonal basis. But at this time its only a rumor.
 
miamix707
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:52 am

Airways1 I suggest you spell it "Colombian" instead of Columbian  Big grin if you want to get a reply!

haha, no just joking  Smile

2 questions for you guys:

1 Since SAM got absorbed by la Alianza Summa it doesn't exist anymore right? Any chance they'll bring back that division now that the alliance doesnt exist anymore? (those MD80s looked so good in SAM colors btw)

2 Any of you live near an aiport where there are any Caravelles stored or derelict? I've never seen one. I was thinking I could go to Colombia at the end of this year with a good friend of mine who goes to visit his family and perhaps get a picture of a Caravelle.

I imagine Aerosucre's have been broken up long ago.. but there was at least one left belonging to LAS. Maybe one from some other airline still stored somewhere in Colombia?

Note about Aerosucre:

Earlier this year there was an Aloha 737-200 being prepared at OPF airport. I asked the supposed owner and he said it was going to Colombia as a freighter, when I asked for what airilne he said "Aerosucre".. I was just wondering if the aircraft joined their fleet. I don't recall this aircraft having a freight door though.


 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:30 am

SAM is still an airline, just like Avianca, the planes say SAM but have a butterfly on the tail:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrés Dallimonti Restrepo



SoAmSky: If you were joking about the spelling, some people here are not, me included...or would Airways1 like that I spelled "United Qingdom"
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:09 am

1 Since SAM got absorbed by la Alianza Summa it doesn't exist anymore right? Any chance they'll bring back that division now that the alliance doesnt exist anymore? (those MD80s looked so good in SAM colors btw)


A bit of history on SAM:

1947. After WWII was over, some Pilots who had a role there had the chance to buy a DC-3, the best plane of the time, for 5000 US Dollars. Then Luis H Coulson "The grandfather" (The same founder of Tampa Cargo and Aces) convinced them to sell him that right and gave them a contract for working in Colombia for a year. That's how SAM began, with a Cargo DC-3.

Later they became a passenger service Airline and became one of the biggest in Colombia, having in their fleet 727s, 707s, twin otters and having a fierce competition with Avianca, they even had international service.

They began to have financial trouble and in the early 90s, after a 727 crash (flying PTY - MDE) they almost went bankrupt. Then Avianca acquired them and let them have their own image and fleet, although operationally they were one. SAM changed their fleet of 727s for AVROs in the mid 90s, but the engines of that airplane proved not suitable for Colombian operations and they had lots of trouble with, so after some years they decided to give those AVROs back to their lessor, now they fly with Malmö Aviation in Sweden.

Without AVROs, Avianca "gave" them some of its planes, two MD-83s and some Fokker 50s (don't remember if 4 , 5 or 6...) and their operations kept as usual. As you know not always the same airplanes are scheduled for the same routes, so it was not weird to see SAM planes operating an Avianca flight and viceversa, because as I said, although the image was independent, operationally SAM and Avianca were the same.

When the Alianza Summa was formed, in theory their members were Avianca, Aces and SAM, but SAM was long time part of Avianca, so the Alianza Summa was just Avianca and Aces (Avianca only nowadays for obvious reasons).

Nowadays SAM operates the same way they used to, with their own image and planes (yeah... Avianca's but "given" to them) but as a whole part of Avianca's system, and almost fully owned by them. As in the old times, SAM planes often operate Avianca's routes and viceversa. In fact, there was a time when they were called "sistema Avianca-SAM".

SAM operates mainly secondary routes, and lots of routes to the Colombian coast, CTG, BAQ, SMR...
With the Avianca's given planes, two MD-83s and some Fokker 50s (again I don't know if 4, 5 or 6). You can even search for SAM's planes' regs and eventually you'll get to pics when they were in original Avianca's colors.

As a side note, SAM is also at C-11 with Avianca and it's iliquid by now, if they aren't able to make it have profits, Avianca might contemplate finishing SAM. I read this last part in the Avianca's C-11 communicate, downlodadable from www.avianca.com.co


That's what I know so far, if any of you have anything to add or any corrections just post by.

[Edited 2004-09-18 04:12:04]

[Edited 2004-09-18 04:14:03]
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:09 am

1 Since SAM got absorbed by la Alianza Summa it doesn't exist anymore right? Any chance they'll bring back that division now that the alliance doesnt exist anymore? (those MD80s looked so good in SAM colors btw)

Well SAM (MM) has always been the "leisure" division for Avianca, in fact i was not "absorbed" on the alliance since they were already "absorbed" onto AV at the time of the alliance, the logos and markins are still alive but they operate on most of cases secondary routes like the ones conecting PSO-CLO-TCO and also the ones conectin Santa Marta-CTG-BAQ also they operate some routes between Bogota-Monteria and Bogota-San Andres. Not the main ones but still they have a lot of Job to do.


Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
airplane
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:49 pm

Does anybody know what are Aeropostal's loads on the BOG-UIO-BOG route?

Not exactly VH but I remember in Saeta When the 727-200 had the -17 engines, it could take off with full pax. That was 149 pax on that plane. And when it went to the -15 engines it could only take 120 Pax.
And always with fuel aprox. 15000 Kgs. This was on normal weather conditions.

JP

Gotta love seeing the world from above
 
airways1
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:01 pm

Apologies for the spelling error in my previous post. No offence intended.

RCS763av wrote:

or would Airways1 like that I spelled "United Qingdom"

Why would I care how a kid from the other side of the planet spells the name of the country in which I live? Besides, RCS763av, I'd suggest you improve your English grammar before you go criticizing the language of others.

airways1



 
miamix707
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:56 pm

Airways1: mate I suggest you be a little more polite. Everyone's English here is good enough, that's the whole point. Btw, I haven't met anyone from the UK who speaks a word of Spanish.

If I had any of those timetables I'd be glad to send you some; I'm not from Colombia so I don't have any, but check on the Aviation Hobby forum.


757MDE:

SAM also had 720s during the 70's. These were painted in a striking 2-tone green and white livery somewhat similar to Avianca. I don't know if any other SAM aircraft ever wore this look.

Good to see Sam still exists. I would love to see them paint the MD83s back into their colors. I looked for them at MIA but I never saw any Avianca flights bringing planes with SAM titles here.

How many 737's does Aerosucre have?

Remember, I'm still interested in the whereabouts of the Caravelles...
 
miamix707
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:40 pm

Thanks RCS763av so that must mean they either got rid of the 737 they had before or never incorporated the ex Aloha 737 that this guy said was going to them.

 
miamiair
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:31 pm

Aerosucre has three 737s according to Boeing operator documents. The last I saw, the Caravelles were at BOG at Aerosucre's cargo ramp/terminal.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:53 pm

MiamiAir you're rigth, Aerosucre has 3 737-200s i don't remember how many 727s have but well about the caravelles you can also see another Caravalle (in very bad shape) near the cargo terminal at CLO

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:51 pm

Where are the other 737s based? Here in BOG i have only seen 1, and plenty 727s.
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:16 am

RCS763av all the 737s are based here at BOG, since they depart very soon is difficult to see all of them parked at the same place but you usually get at least two (and if luck the three) at 12:30-1:00 p.m. everyday.

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
Fokker50
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:20 am

TAVONG:
Does Aerosucre have any intentions to replace their 722 and 732?

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:32 am

Fokker50, no, i don't think in the near time they would replace the 732s since they are pretty "new" on their fleets. You can put the Caravelle has an example, they operated them has long has they could so you can imagine they would do that (again) with the 722 and 732s.

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:52 am

SAM also had 720s during the 70's. These were painted in a striking 2-tone green and white livery somewhat similar to Avianca. I don't know if any other SAM aircraft ever wore this look.


How could I forget the 720s!.
I haven't seen any other SAM plane with that look...either


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Photo © AirNikon





Where are the other 737s based? Here in BOG i have only seen 1, and plenty 727s

I'm not totally sure but I think one of their 737s spends big amounts of time flying to/from PTY.

[Edited 2004-09-18 18:58:12]
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
miamix707
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:23 am

Man any of you guys can get a picture of those Caravelles?

Thanks for posting that pic, yes that's the colors I was talking about  Smile
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:03 am

You want a picture of the caravelles in storage?
Because there are some pics in the db (and in other sites also) of them while operating.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:45 am

Hey !


Fokker50: I think we are going to se those 732 an 722 for a long period, I really don't think they will replace their planes, the situation does not allowed, although I don't know anything about Aerosucre's situation but I guess it's not the better.



Cheers


MATURRO727
 
Fokker50
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:44 am

MATURRO:
well my question was because I thought that because as you know here in Colombia we have the stage 3 rules, and for those a/c their engines (specially for the 722) are stage 2. So that was i´m asking, also Aerosucre´s situation is not the best but also is not bad.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:42 am

has you see in this pictures:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Effendy - FlyBy


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ray Harvey



The B-737-200s and the B-727-200s already have hushkits to make them able to fit on to the stage III rules.

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:56 am

Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:31 am

Aerosucre Caravelle old colors, they got to get to new colors as well.


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Photo © Don Boyd

If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
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tavong
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:05 am

hey you found that pictures i never got to find it...well done!!!!

what a lovely plane...

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
av757
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RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:33 am

The abandoned SE-210 airplane at CLO belonged to Aerotal.

The passenger operators of the Caravelle's here in Colombia were Aerotal and TAC Transportes Aereos Del Cesar, besides Aerosucre and LAS who used them as freighters.

Sam (MM) has been totally owned by AV since 1979, it has always been used as the non IATA member airline of the group for special purpose charters and low prices offerings of special package tourism deals.

AV757
 
airplane
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:54 am

RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:31 am

Congratulations everyone,
this should be the forum with the most replies in the history of A.net

JP
Gotta love seeing the world from above
 
User avatar
tavong
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 1:59 am

RE: Colombia Aero Update: Satena, West Tampa & Inter?

Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:24 am

Well i nthe history of a.net you can surpass this number only by putting somthing that can turn into an airbus VS Boeing discussion but in fact is the first time a Colombian topic gets this far....


Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.

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