ACAfan
Topic Author
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US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:33 am

Before I get on to my suggestion, can someone give me a breakdown on how many of wach aircraft is owned by US Airways?

How many of each aircraft are in service?
How many of each aircraft are in the desert?

I know that USAir has retired a bunch of Boeings and Fokkers and the glorious DC-9s these last few years, and I would like to know the possibility of bringing these aircraft back into commercial service, as they are already paid for.

If the classic jets were brought back, the narrowbody Airbus fleet could be de-leased or sold off to generate lots of $$$.

Having flown USAir more than any other airline in my life, I would be very, very sad if they go out of business.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
burnsie28
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:34 am

AHH yes, take the NW approach  Big thumbs up
 
L-188
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:38 am

Damm somebody beat me too it  Laugh out loud
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
greasespot
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:40 am

I do not think anything is paid for. I think they sold everything that was not nailed down last time.

It is one thing to keep using old jets. It is entirely different beast to resurrect them. In fact I bet most cannot be resurrected. Going back to old jets is really not an option.
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:40 am

Let see here...
The A330s can go to Northwest.
The A319/320/321 go where ever the need is.
The 734s can go to Fed Ex.
The 757s can go the desert, since they're some of the first off the line.
The 767s can go to Airborne for freighter use.
Did I leave any airplanes out? Regards.  Wink/being sarcastic
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
N863DA
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:20 am

...The 757s can go the desert, since they're some of the first off the line...

Alternatively, the 757s, despite being old, can follow the DC-10 and MD-11 into the role as awesome short- / medium-haul freighters. The BA retirements to DHL proves this to be so; with the closure of the 757 line, older 757s will be in high demand as freighters. (This will be great for liquidators who can get some fast cash out of these aircraft.)

Bear in mind that US Airways may be in a position (I do not have any inside information) whereby the aircraft that they do own have debt charges against them, and the rest are leased and aren't theirs to begin. Thus, the net worth of these aircraft may be cancelled by the debts against them.

Like I said, though, I could be barking up completely the wrong tree.

FLY DELTA JETS



N 8 6 3 D A

 
ETStar
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:50 am

How about getting rid of all the Boeings, and stick it out with the Airbii, since the latter is what is mostly used across the atlantic as well as to the west coast. I understand they commissioned the 757s to the Florida routes as there is more capacity there, and with the Boeings gone and schedules trimmed, a 'single type' operation since cross training is minimal as compared to Boeing. The advantages associated with this are of course the commonality I mentioned, as well as the efficiency of the new Airbii as compared to older aircraft currently in the system or the cost of resurrecting what's in the desert. With Pittsburgh being let go and a leaner schedule could even mean the departure of some Airbii....
 
as739x
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:58 am

I don't understand how everyone thinks that there are airlines out there with the money to buy or take on the lease of the US planes? Every thread about US on here has been about selling or giving back the buses. Who has the money to pick them up? Just about no one!They need other alternatives. Fact is they need the fuel efficient planes in the fleet!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:06 am

I agree with ETStar. USAir's Airbus fleet is definitely more capable and worth hanging on to.. If they were to trim things up, keep a smaller, more standardized fleet.. the newer Airbus will do more, more efficiently than the Boeings.
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
whitehatter
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:09 am

Truly the mark of loons....

"US Airways is suffering from high fuel costs, so bring back the gas guzzlers and spend millions making them airworthy again!"

Sheesh.... Insane

[Edited 2004-09-13 04:10:29]
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:11 am

The old aircraft (737-200's, DC-9's, MD-80's, F-100's, etc.) cannot be brought back into the fleet, as they are not owned nor leased by US Airways anymore. The leases on all those aircraft were terminated during the first bankruptcy.

The 757s can go the desert, since they're some of the first off the line.

Granted the 757's aren't the newest, only 10 of the 31 are the older ones (they were purchased during the Eastern liquidation). The other 21 are newer, and were delivered between 1993 and 1995.

To answer your question, there are 115 737's in the US fleet, 118 A320 family, 31 757's, 10 767's, and 9 A330's.


N670UW

[Edited 2004-09-13 04:13:39]
 
graham697
Posts: 383
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:12 am

....................
I don't understand how everyone thinks that there are airlines out there with the money to buy or take on the lease of the US planes? Every thread about US on here has been about selling or giving back the buses. Who has the money to pick them up? Just about no one!They need other alternatives. Fact is they need the fuel efficient planes in the fleet!

ASSFO
...................

Basically every new European startup airline and really most of the European airlines have the financial capacity to do it. Another alternative would be Asia. So it doesn't have to be in the US.

[Edited 2004-09-13 04:13:28]
 
PhilSquares
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:19 am

Please remember the unencumbered assets prior to the first bankruptcy filing are now pledged to the DIP financing of the first bankruptcy. Essentially, there are very few, if any assets USAirways has left. So, the DIP provider now controls the assets and it is up to them to determine if USAirways is viable as an airline or worth more broken up.

As far as taking aircraft out of the desert, it is most like too cost prohibitive. The aircraft that have been parked were most likely parked when they needed heavy maintenance and the cost of the maintenance would be more than the aircraft is worth.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Lufthansa
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:34 am

Simple


How do you think this would make USAirways look when compared to say, Airtran? Lets see. Airtran, low fares, New 717s or 737s, which are more reliable and thus more ontime. USAirways, Old aircraft (any business pax can tell unless your pour money into the birds the way NW has) that burn more fuel, are less reliable, cost them more to operate (in terms of direct operating expenses) and have less passenger appeal, and US would ultimately need to charge a higher price.

Although the lease costs of the 32S are high, remember, the real problems with US is the cost per ASM, part of their network structure. Remember, a fleet change right now would require a MASSIVE investment in training, with all of the crew having to spend a huge amount of time in the Simulators etc.... i hardly think they can afford that. I can see merit in the idea of trying to reduce their cash flow, but with Oil as expensive as it is, and the fact that these aircraft would require substancial investment in new cabins etc, (in order not to loose premium pax by looking too shoody) I can't see this being the solution.

All i could see you doing to US now is perhaps reducing the fleet types even further....say, getting rid of 757 and 767s all together. They could get away with just 32S and 330s.... but they've really got to get their staff numbers down, etc and that is going to be the tricky part.

Looking at the information above though, i don't think there is too much fleet wise US could do to improve things. They have to tackle their organisational problems, and to do that, could totally destroy staff morale.
 
NWAFA
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:52 am

FlagshipAZ

First of all, the A330's that US has have smaller engines, so they would not work for NW.

Second, lets not talk death right now for US...There are THOUSANDS of employees who are worried about making mortages..Paying rent.

Everyone, lets me sensitive to the employees!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:56 am

Both US and NW use PW4168s on their A330s, do they not?
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:58 am

Both US and NW use PW4168s on their A330s, do they not?

Indeed they do.


N670UW
 
NWAFA
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:00 pm

It has somthing to do with the Range of their (US) engines. For some reason US does not have the range or power of the current PW's
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:05 pm

Both NW's and US' are PW4168A-powered and both are A330-323X versions which provide the same ~5500 nm range.


N670UW
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:07 pm


Second, lets not talk death right now for US...There are THOUSANDS of employees who are worried about making mortages..Paying rent.

Everyone, lets me sensitive to the employees!


Oh calm down. Quit acting like these are the only people in the world to be placed in jeopardy of losing their job. I moved all over this godforsaken state of Texas, from Midland, to San Antonio, to El Paso, to Lubbuck, to Houston, and finally Dallas as a kid because the oil industry sucks ass when it comes to job stability.

I wish unemployement to no one, it really is horrible, I've been there done that. But there is a reason US is in bankrupcy, they are not a viable compay. They're employees could be the nicest people in the world, but that doesn't help them pay bills when thier employer can't pay thier bills.

US liquidating, like TW being bought out, would help more people than it hurt. It would allievate the pressure on other carriers, US employees could find more stable jobs with likely higher benefits at any number of healthy carrier, and competition would only increase at US strongholds... better for the travelers...

My message is simple: It blows that this has to happen, but it must, that's reality, don't drink the kool-aide, life's a bitch, be a pimp....
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
supa7E7
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:37 pm

Bankruptcy at a legacy airline is a bit special. For one thing, the potential for cost savings in the largest cost category - labor - are huge.

Dwelling on the past is irrelevant. In BK court, only the present matters. And the present route map, passenger levels, and revenue at US seem pretty good. Fix your cost problem with some strokes of a pen and you've got a profitable company.

Stay tuned. There may be life in this bird yet. Large cost reductions are on the horizon.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:02 pm

NWAFA, US is where it is at not only because of the management's decisions, but also because of the stubbornness of it employees. No one wants to give anything away (ie pay cuts, benefits), but US' unions don't bother to look at the ugly flip side, which means loss of work, loss of benefits, and having to start all over again: means loss of seniority, and further fear of furlough if their new employer's shaky. Basically, what I am trying to say is that I do not feel sorry for anyone, as, if the majority are concerned enough, then they would stand up for what they believe in and make the right choices. I'd live on $10 per day any day instead of none.
 
braniff
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:28 pm

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:32 pm

CO has had several near-death experiences and it managed to come back. AW has had abysmal QoS in the past but last I checked, they seemed to be picking up. No reason to think US can't come back if they have a solid plan. Good management doesn't hurt either. There's tough times ahead no doubt. There have been plenty of post-deregulation bankruptcies so there's no shortage of hindsight and tried and true tactics that I'm sure will be looked at as part of the restructuring.

Workforce cuts
Wage concessions
Cessation of less profitable routes
Closure of least used stations
Slimming of fleet
Travel incentives (fare cuts, packages, etc)

The public thinks twice about boarding an airline running under chapter 11, as many people think safety problems soon surface from a burdened maintenance workforce. That's generally untrue as any safety issues risk revocation of airworthiness. So they'll need some good advertising and probably change in attitude in order to get the public to stay.

They're gonna have to keep their most profitable routes and their most efficient aircraft on those routes, whether it's Airbus or Boeing or RJ's. There's no time to resurrect dormant birds. They need to use what they have and make the most of it.

-B
Believe it!
 
Iflewrepublic
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:40 pm

Not only are the leases no longer viable on the USAir DC-9s, but the hulls of most of them have already met the scrappers torch. Also, those that have not been scrapped, have had the majority of all crucial elements removed, ie: engines, landing gear, cockpits, interiors, flight surfaces...you know...minor details.

Iflewrepublic
Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
swardu
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:44 pm

I would imagine that most of the aircraft US has parked in the desert are almost ALL due for heavy maintenance checks....WHICH......requires a lot of $$$$$. Wouldn't it more costly to unretire mothballed aircraft, do the heavy checks, which take a lot of time to do, refurbish, repaint, etc than it would to renegotiate lease terms? Not trying to sound stupid here, I truly do not know.
 
ACAfan
Topic Author
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Je

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:42 pm


To answer your question, there are 115 737's in the US fleet, 118 A320 family, 31 757's, 10 767's, and 9 A330's.


Thanks for that. I did not know US had so many 737s left. Since the narrowbody fleet is about even, US cannot drop one A or B.

EDIT: I started a new thread with my ideas to save US Airways:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1738844/

[Edited 2004-09-13 16:52:16]
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
bobnwa
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:10 am

ACAfan,

Thats 283 aircraft, but US Airways only owns 74 of them. The rest are leased and cannot be sold the airline.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:56 am

Simple fix: Dissolve the airline or convert to LCC as America West did. US AIRWAYS no value financially and we have a huge glut of overcapacity anyway. US AIRWAYS in it's present state cannot, will not and should not survive. The traditional legacy carriers only have room for 2 or 3 at most-and with United Delta and everyone except American on the bubble, one less would do us all a lot of good right now.

One Nation Under God
 
7e72004
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:06 am

How much of a different airline was America west before it "converted" to an LCC?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ClipperAurora
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:49 am

I think US AIRWAYS will pull this off
//////// FLY THE FLAG
 
braniff
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:28 pm

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:01 am

Maybe they should spin off some LC regionals and call them...say.... Allegheny, Piedmont and PSA.

 Smile

-B
Believe it!
 
SunbrellaPat
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:02 am

I'm afraid all this conjecture will be for naught - I predict liquidation by year's end. As many have mentioned in prior responses, everything USAir has is either leased or pledged as collateral. They truly have nothing left. It is indeed sad, but the little cash they have will quickly run out, and they will disappear.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:07 am

You cannot sell something that does not belong to you. Many of the US Airways planes are leased. Try selling your GMC pickup you leased last year and watch what happens.
ALSO...How come I read over and over that when a company(airline) has big financial problems, it is ALWAYS managements fault. Is it just me or does anyone else see this in the posts over the past couple of years?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
braniff
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:28 pm

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:47 am

>ALSO...How come I read over and over that when a company(airline) has big financial problems, it is ALWAYS managements fault. Is it just me or does anyone else see this in the posts over the past couple of years?

Logic would dictate that management ultimately has final decision on how any business is run. If you look back at prior airline failures, the most noted factors have been the aggregation of poor management (or too much management), bad decisions, and labor/union battles (usually management vs labor) which many times end in a strike, which cause millions of dollars of losses per day.

There's other factors too, such as economic conditions (recessions, etc), war, terrorism, fuel prices, etc. But these factors simply accelerate an already floundering operation. An airline with strong cash reserves can overcome most of these factors.

-B
Believe it!
 
7e72004
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:47 am

How many different types of aircraft does US have? It seems like a lot!
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:10 am

I remember reading all kinds of posts back in January about how US would be liquidated in March then it truned into by summer then by August. US will be around for a while at least the next year or 2. They will probably do some huge restructuring and downsizing. They wont be gone by years end, a company that big i dont think they would go down in 3 months maybe 6 or 7 but 3 unlikely. I dont know jus my opinion.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:29 am

How about getting rid of all the Boeings, and stick it out with the Airbii, since the latter is what is mostly used across the atlantic as well as to the west coast.
Logic does make sense to eventually go all-Airbus, but I would check your facts about the most common manufacturer used across the Atlantic and to the west coast.

How many different types of aircraft does US have? It seems like a lot!
See reply #25 or http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/?file=ficheopp&opp=US%20Airways.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:30 am

US _will_ pull this off since it is dominant at DCA, an airport which is considered more of a personal one by all of the lawmakers (who always seem to push for services to their home states/cities)... They will try hard to keep things going... US could also reinvent itself as a smaller airline that would in fact feed into UA's system, now that they are sleeping together.

[Edited 2004-09-14 01:31:34]
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: US Airways: Sell The Airbii And Use The Old Jets!

Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:13 am

How about getting rid of all the Boeings, and stick it out with the Airbii, since the latter is what is mostly used across the atlantic as well as to the west coast.

I believe that he is talking about US Airways' TA and cross-country routes.

AAndrew

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