Airbus Completes Cellphone Trial Successfully

777ER · Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:48 pm

Airbus has successfully completed the first in flight trial of GSM personal mobile cellphones onboard an airplane. Making the way for their future widespread use. The trial, which took place aboard an Airbus A320 flight test aircraft flying from, and back to, Toulouse, is part of an ongoing technology development project to provide in flight mobile cellphone services to airline passengers. Cellphones services will be avialable to airlines in 2006.
http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/press_releases.asp#1583

voodoo · Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:04 pm

Including take-off and landing?
I just wish they'd ceritify videocameras throughout the flight. Big grin

StarFlyer · Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:49 pm

Great news. Business travelers (high yield) will definitely prefer to fly the airlines offering this service so this should be good.

Any idea if the system would also be available for Boeing aircraft? The internet service Connexion by Boeing is available for both Airbus and Boeing!

Regards
Star

knoxibus · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:14 am

This is completely different from Connexion by Boeing, which is dedicated for high-speed internet access during the flight.

This is about the possibility to perform a cell phone call, without pluging it in something specific.

They are also testing the use of ALL personal electronic equipment during the whole flight (like PDAs and video cameras for example). Wireless e-mail access is available with Emirates, high-speed internet should come later, but as long as it gos through the Satcom system, it's no use...

Boeing was clever in providing high-speed wireless internet & e-mail access, but you've got to install a big antenna on the aircraft, since they are not using the usual network of satellites for Satcom communications, but then its faster!

This cell phone thing is quite clever also, but I don't know if they'll be able to certify it for Boeing aircraft, since all the electromagnetic interferences have only been tested on an A320.

drerx7 · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:17 am

Planes will chaos with this. I'd like to be able to use my cell in flight-but imagine the noise; people already talk loud as S*&$! on the phone when you land-partially due to the ambiant noise and reduction in hearing from pressure. This will be a mess.

StarFlyer · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:30 am

Knoxibus, I fully understand it's different technology from Connexion, all I was asking was if the cellphone technology was available to both manufacturer's aircraft (and maybe Bombardier etc as well) just like Connexion is.

Planes will chaos with this. I'd like to be able to use my cell in flight-but imagine the noise; people already talk loud as S*&$! on the phone when you land-partially due to the ambiant noise and reduction in hearing from pressure. This will be a mess.
No it won't. It's not a mess on trains where everyone could use their phones... Instead they have installed "talk zones" where people can use their cell phones, I suspect the same could be done on planes.
There's no point holding back this technology just because you think it's a mess.
This will certainly be a full success, as some people just need to be contactable sometimes.
And no, they're not doing it because they want you think they're oh-so-important, but rather because they might have to make an important decision etc. I know a number of people who have desperately been waiting for this...

Though of course there will be some people in the "I'm important, I'm on the phone category"... Big grin

Anyway, have a nice weekend everyone!

Star

drerx7 · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:41 am

Haha,

I agree I don't think that it should be held back, just not lookin forward to sitting next to the "I'm importan, I'm on the phone category" person with unlimited night and weekend minutes. Debacle. In all honesty, this will be very advantageous to some.

Iberia340600 · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:47 am

Plain and simple....this is gonna suck! One of the last few places that are cell-phone free...and now I am going to have to put up with people around me chatting away on a cell phone while I try to sleep? I for one am totally against the use of cell-phones in flight. Trust me....you are going to see quite a few pissed off people on airplanes once this program commences.

BestWestern · Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:55 am

Perfect for blackberries!

No doubt the airlines will install reception antanne in the aircraft, and make loads of money from this service - international rate roaming with one carrier, etc.

Anything that improves airline finances is good news.

ORD2PHL · Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:05 am

Old news, Qualcomm already did this onboard a specially fitted AA MD-80.

ORD2PHL

AirframeAS · Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:50 pm

Just remember that the final decision rests on the airline's own policy. I dont think the airlines are too keen on allowing inflight use of cell phones. People already talk too loud anyway...

trickijedi · Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:05 pm

This means that in addition to safety briefings, there should also be a cell phone etiquette briefing. Personally, I'm not really looking forward to hearing half the plane talking on their cell phones and yelling expletives as a result of dropped calls while the other half is trying to sleep or do some work.

burnsie28 · Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:08 pm

Just because Airbus got this to succesfully happen doesnt mean S**T for it to come to real flights, the FAA, and other government agencies would have to approve this.

ual747den · Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:33 pm

Some of you know that wireless communication is my business so im split on this one. I could just imagine everyone trying to talk on their phones all at once, people already talk louder than they should on a cell phone, I couldn't imagine how they would act on a plane. My worst nightmare would be a flight on WN where all the ghetto folk are talking to their people as loud as they could on their cell just to let everyone know that they are flying somewhere. We have all seen this, as soon as you get to the gate the phone comes out, or as they are getting ready to depart and they are talking about nothing, but just calling because they are on a plane. Now the other part of me says this is great. At Verizon when we introduced the in-flight service for Airfone we had hundreds of thousands of subscribers sign up for the service and that was at 69 cents per minute. It is very obvious that people want service while flying and if it was available they would use it.
I think the best option is for airlines to allow the service in a special area of the aircraft only. This area could be sound proofed as much as possible and there would have to be some kind of fee for using it so that the airlines could make their money back. Another idea would be to only let Business and First passengers use this area, it would be a great addition to the services offered to those passengers. So my take is yeah it is good but not if everyone has to listen to your call. People have done fine thus far without it and people do not pay the $3.69 per minute to use the old AirFone service in coach so they are not going to die without it in the future.

greatansett · Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:03 pm

Drerx7-You know I bet you would have a different attitude if Boeing introduced it.

BIGBlack · Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:38 pm

I can hear these ultra annoying cell phone calls now. All through the flight. Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.

Imonti · Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:47 pm

I dont think it is a good idea, a lot of business peeps when they travel, enjoy a bit of a break to get away from things, and they do work on a lap top or paper work if they need to work.

Personally I dont wanna pay for a ticket and have to endure some guy next to me, on his phone for a few hours.

star_world · Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:16 pm

People seem to be missing a major point here. The whole aircraft isn't going to become over-run with people shouting on their phones, for the simple reason that it will be too expensive for the majority of people. The technology does not just allow the normal ground-based mobile network to be used from within the a/c, in effect the aircraft will become a 'roaming' network, and there will be a correspondingly high charge associated with it. This should ensure that it's only used by people who really need to make the calls, and very few mobile tariffs include international roaming minutes in them so I'd be amazed to see a huge amount of use by the average passenger. Of course, services like this will be targeted at the business customer, but I'd still expect overall usage to be fairly small.

Dash8King · Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:24 am

Awesome, even if I don't use mine I always get a kick out of listening to business people talk on them.

Richard28 · Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:48 am

I dont like the idea.

whilst I guess it's inevitable, I like the fact you are free from hassle/work whilst soaring above the clouds.

Flying is an escape - I like it that way.

I seem to remember an article about an underground (metro) network in Japan (poss Tokyo?), where they have installed antenna's so that mobile calls can be made whilst on the train underground.

I fear how more uncomfortable the tube in London would be if they introduced this there!

Rich.

AEROFAN · Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:49 am

How do you know that star world? It hasn't been decided as yet how airlines will handle it. I do not see any airline at present taking out rows of seats to createf a "talk zone". I envisage a FA annoucement only about being courteous to your fellow pax or some such crap - which will be totally ignored as ass %*@&(**# carry on with their mundane conversations. Look at what happens now as people yap away while parked at the gate.
"hello girl, I'm on the plane, we ain't muving yet, how u doin?" yada, yada, yada .....

"business men will be the worse offenders as they negotitate supposedly big deals at the top of their voices.
And don't let me get started on we Americans - we are a naturally loud bunch.... hmmmmmm what will they think of next? boom boxes perhaps?

BIGBlack · Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:27 am

So for your phone call to connect, you will have to pay an inflated fee? What difference is that for the airfones?

zak · Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:02 am

*shameless self gloss*

i have posted these news a few days ago
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1742308

iakobos · Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:27 am

Nothing new under the sun, except that an aircraft manufacturer actually gives the green line for airlines to go ahead.

Still, if pax will be able to use "their" cellphone, unavoidably through the onboard cellular microcell, the connexion between the airplane and the ground has to go via satellite(s).
I am sure Iridium (global coverage) and Globalstar (limited coverage) would be happy to negotiate "good" rates, but it will remain expensive to call and be called.

The (commercial) loop will include
the airline (they wont do it for your free)
the satellite operator
the land carrier
the cellular operator
+ all installations and maintenance costs

Good luck.

ual747den · Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:34 am

Star World, Lakobos, and the rest of you do not get it. Were not talking about satellite service here we are talking about GSM service which is ground based. It will not be any extra amount of money on top of your regular fees. The price to make a call in the air right now is only 69 cents per min. That is not too bad at all. What they are trying to do now is make it so that you can use your regular phone just like if you were in your car on the ground. This has nothing to do with Iridium or Globalstar. The main company sponsoring this technology is T-Mobile and their associated world wide carriers.

777ER · Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:51 am

If the new system comes into place around the world, well it won't be a problem for me because I'm always listening to my Diskman.

Buyantukhaa · Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:32 pm

UAL747DEN,

I think you're mistaken, the press release clearly specifies Globalstar:

In addition to tests for measurement purposes, functional tests were performed in which several different GSM telephones were used simultaneously for both voice communications and text messaging. The trials demonstrated successful communications to and from personal mobile telephones onboard to mobile and fixed telephones on the ground, and to another mobile telephone aboard.

The prototype equipment and software used in the trials were developed by Airbus supported by the telecommunication specialist Icarelink. The signals from the mobile telephone went first to a “picocell” inside the aircraft, next to a computer server that routed them through the Globalstar satellite communications network to the ground, and finally to ground-based telephone networks.

iakobos · Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:31 am

UAL747DEN, we got it right,

As BuyantUkhaa confirmed, there is simply no way a gsm or any other cellular service can work reliably onboard an airplane at all times without using a very specific link to a very specific ground station. (which will also be responsible for the billing system)

Practically, a link from the plane to a satellite (or sats network) is the only one that can be envisaged.
Using a network in geostationary orbit works well (re. present airphones) but is expensive, and the cost of the onboard terminal and installation is quite high.
The solution envisaged here uses a constellation of satellites in low orbit, either Globalstar or Iridium. Both systems are in dire need of users and I have no doubt they could offer interesting rates to the service provider, though
the rate for the end user will not be cheap, there are too many parties involved.

kanebear · Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:00 am

I'm willing to bet that you'll see a rate of $1.49-$3.99 a minute for this service and not lower. Airlines certainly do NOT want to encourage wholesale gabbing on their flights by many people. Lower than that rate and you're getting close to the Iridum wholesale rate. I would think Iridum would be much better suited for this application than Globalstar would be as the Iridium network isn't reliant on having a nearby gateway. Globalstar cannot offer service over a certain distance from a gateway. Thus, you can have a satellite directly overhead, but not be in range of a gateway and thus you'll not be able to make a call. Iridium has the ability to cross-link calls from satellite to satellite and can offer service even on polar routes where Inmarsat won't work.

iakobos · Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:37 am

Kanebear,

I think it could end up around 1.50 to 2.50$/min and small letters in the notice stipulating : minimum charge 1 minute, and billing in 1 minute increments.

Iridium or Globalstar: right, Iridium handles calls from sat to sat to ground station (US and Italy), but this is far from flawless and the number of dropped calls is rather significant.
Globalstar has several ground stations, but its coverage is far from being global.

ps: Inmarsat works well in the polar regions at altitude.

ual747den · Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:06 am

Kanebear,
The current price of service from Verizon is 69 cents per min if you do not subscribe to the service and only 10 cents if you do so why would they be spending all of this money to make a system that would cost more than what you can get it for now? The answer is they wouldn't. Airfone has been around for years and if anyone is going to be spending more money to develop new technology it is going to be to let customers use their personal phones on board. Like I mentioned above Tmobile is sponsoring a program that is testing this idea right now, however it might not be this one as some of you have pointed out. As we all know Sat. Phone service is extremely expensive and has never been a large business, until they can find a way to get the rates down below current ones there is no need for their service.

Here is a clip directly from the Verizon site
AirfoneÂ® Service for Verizon Wireless NEW
Make and receive calls or send a fax on a plane for just $10 a month and 10Â¢ per minute. Or pay just 69Â¢ per minute with no monthly fee. Learn More.

iakobos · Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:59 pm

UAL747DEN,

We are talking about international service, you mention Verizon which is strictly domestic.
A domestic service can indeed rely on a direct a/c to ground link, provided the ground network has a sufficient number of dedicated sites (150 in the case of Verizon)

Note that the 0.69$/min rate is stated as being "roaming" charges, which might imply that Verizon charges twice for a same call, one normal charge + one roaming charge.

A recent survey in London airports shows that business travellers are prepared to pay between 3 and 6$/min to be connected in the air.

nudelhirsch · Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:36 pm

Flying will be this:

RING RING RING...18 people look if it is their cell...only the owner of that cell does not look, so we get some rounds of this sweet
RING RING RING
RING RING RING
Finally this communicative person realizes it might be his or hers.
RING RING RING
Because people always have to look who is calling before quitting annoying others.
WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU WELL... NO I AM ON AN AIRPLANE... AN AIRPLANE... FLYING YOU KNOW... NO YOU GOT MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME RIGHT... YES YOU GOT MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME ON MY CELL...
[turns to me and says "sorry...it's important, my cat just refused canned food"...I am too nice to kill him right away...and instantly start hating me for that]
YES I CAN TALK ON AN AIRPLANE... WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?... I CAN'T UNDERSTAND YOU... [those engines are always so loud, no way to make a normal relaxed phone call]... NO IT IS AN AIRPLANE, REALLY
[turns to me again, apologizing...I start hoping for a mid-air-collision or something relaxing like that]
Then of course he gets disconnected and we start with the RING RING RING...(I do not repeat those parts now...)
[turns to me, "sorry, this technology is not working, those morons should finally fix that, got disconnected..." I reply "REALLY???? disconnected? and why did they allow you to connect again?"...desireof killing that person becomes more urgent]
SORRY, JUST TALKED TO MY NEIGHBOR HERE, NICE PERSON...WHAT?...OH I AM NOT IN THE PUB, I AM IN AN AIRPLANE, YOU GOT MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME ON MY CELL.
Thats the point where I stand up, open the emergency exit and enjoy the relaxing mood the decompression gives me...

And I thought when those cell phones where introduced and everybody on the bus called all people he knew to let them know he had a cell phone now was the worst we had to face.

Leskova · Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:36 am

I always enjoyed the time away from cellphones - but, lets face it: this was bound to happen, because there are too many people - especially in the higher yielding classes - that either want to or have to be reachable by phone.

Airlines don't listen to a lot of what the passengers say, but if their high-yield passengers tell them something, they'll listen sooner or later, and this - after Connexion's internet access - is simply the next step.

As for how the communication will work - obviously it has to be through satellite: how else would you be able to use your phone in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific? No cellphone network in sight, so nothing that the onboard antenna could connect to on the ground.

And, yes, it will, in all likelihood, be more expensive than Verizon's service, and people will use it. Why? Because people from around the world don't use Verizon.

I'm actually not familiar with the Verizon system - can you use your own GSM phone with it? Can you receive calls through your own cellphone-number using it?

Again, a system like this was bound to be introduced sooner or later - let's just enjoy the last one or two years that we've got left of phone-free flying.

Regards,
Frank

Airbus Completes Cellphone Trial Successfully

Airbus Completes Cellphone Trial Successfully

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