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mariner
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JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:48 am

A year ago, say, if there was a thread about JetBlue, most of the posts were glowing in their praise.

But there have been a few threads recently (there are two live ones now) where most of the comments are totally negative. Some are predicting the end of JetBlue.

Now, a few posters have been saying that all along, and of course, there are still the hard core JetBlue fans, but they seem to be a smaller number than before.

JetBlue hasn't changed - it's still the same as it was a year ago, only bigger.

So I wonder why the attitude to JetBlue changed on a.net?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
TWA902fly
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:50 pm

Its just that if you look at most airlines... most of them fail, so logically a lot of people have no faith in a new airline growing so amazingly fast surviving. Then again there are those who believe that jetblue has picked out something unique and can survive such as southwest did. However, they have not been aroudn long enough to judge them. I personally think LGA and JFK is either a really good idea or a really bad idea. Ofcourse they can make money out of LGA, but once AA or DL get back on their feet (or if, depending on your point of view)... JetBlue will have a run for its money. Only time will tell. I think they will be around for a couple more years, they seem like they make well-founded business decisions while adding a spark... who would have expected JetBlue to come and try out LGA? Very up front attack if you ask me. (and not necessarily a bad thing if they can keep punching through)

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
ETStar
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:50 pm

Could it be because Jetblue revolutionized LCC travel a year or so ago, hence the ooplah, and now that it has been matched by other LCCs and even the legacies are matching its fares (and people would go with legacies for FFP purposes), the excitment is no longer there. I still can't wait for the day I fly jetBlue, so there still is some excitment on this end. Oh, and its stockholders are also not that happy  Sad
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:00 pm

I'm not ready to write off B6 just yet...a lot will depend on US, and how B6 can respond to an impending US failure.

However, B6 has expanded very rapidly, with a very young fleet, in the last few years. The automatic assumption is that this trend mirrors that of other LCC's who have expanded faster than they can handle. That said, I do think Neeleman is smarter than those at the failed LCC's of the past, maybe.

B6 has a lot of new Airbii that will need big maintenance checks in the next few years. Same holds true for F9, who is in the process of dumping 737 aircraft for Airbus A319's and A320's. Will B6, and F9 for that matter, be able to meet those costs, and remain profitable? We'll see.

I think we may see some merger between F9 and B6, before we see a complete failure of one of these carriers.

I don't know...time will tell.

Just my .02.  Insane
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
CanadaEH
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:34 pm

From a Canucks perspective...

There's been a change in attitude with Westjet too. What it comes down to is capitalization. There are many low-cost carriers that capitalized on 9/11 and were able to keep making money while the legacy carriers could not. While the investment community pumped millions and millions of dollars into these airlines, the airlines themselves made it well known that they were THE model for success.

While most legacy carriers have either weathered the storm, asked for concessions, gone into bankruptcy protection, or become a more efficient airline; the fact is that these "troubled" legacy carriers have become more efficient, have become more competitive, and are more able to compete with the low-cost carriers of today. The legacy carriers have the benefit of many years of service with FF programs, loyal customers, and the obvious things such as schedules, routes, etc. which is why they are gaining a more popular view in the public's eye. That's not to say the low-cost airlines aren't popular anymore, it just means that they'll have to adapt to the industry of TODAY (not the industry of two, three, five years ago).

While the LCC crowd of airlines hasn't performed as well as they have in the past, who can blame them? Look around the world, low-cost airlines are growing like weeds. LCC's aren't competing with the legacy carriers anymore, they are competing against eachother. Instead of battling a legacy carrier that used to control a market, they're battling a market that has been "saved" by a low-cost carrier. Lets say a ticket from City A to City B used to cost $1000 on Legacy Carrier X, Low-Cost Carrier Y entered and was able to charge $500 from City A to City B. Now Low-Cost Carrier Z enters the market and charges $300 and both Legacy Carrier X and Low-Cost Carrier Y match the fare. You now have a saturated market with depressed yields. Nobody wins. The obvious scapegoat is the airline that's growing (JetBlue, for example), but is that a fair assessment? No, it's not and the answer is quite simple.

The low-cost carriers will no doubt go through tough times, every airline does at one point or another. I dismiss the people who claim an airline is dead solely on past airline industry history or a reduced profit for that airline last quarter. Given the unpredicability of the past 5 years of our industry, any airline that has maintained its profitability and success will prosper regardless of how they appear to be performing today, tomorrow, or one year from now. There is a learning curve - even for low-cost carriers - and airlines such as Westjet and JetBlue are not immune from mistakes, errors in judgement, or poor planning.

When co-workers of mine say things like "we aren't doing well" or "why are our loads low", there's a really simple answer: think long-term. Airlines aren't planned on a month-to-month basis (unless you want to get technical), they are planned long-term. Sure there will be growing pains on a new route, headaches with a "new" aircraft, slow response in a new market, etc., but these things are short-term problems. Maybe I'm just really optimistic, but people doubted Westjet (and JetBlue) from day one and to this day we're both still flying profitably.
EH.
 
Jalalabad
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:41 pm

chalk it up to people liking an alternative interest, especially when it seems to be cutting edge. now that they are big, it no longer satisfies people to like something everyone else knows about and likes. the 'analyst' crap is almost always written by "16-20". i was informed on here today that the small airline i work for is on a rollercoaster ride downward. yeahh, i think i'll trust the revenue reports and load factor pdf's i have access to instead.
 
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mariner
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:52 pm

Steven:

A little bit you've missed my point. This wasn't intended to be about LCC's, and certainly not about Frontier - it is about what (I perceive) as a change in attitude to JetBlue.

And again, not about whether JetBlue will survive, but why that change in atttiude. Or is it only my perception?

However, I can't let you get away with one thing - when did Frontier acquire A320's?

And, for that matter, Frontier's old - and very expensive - 737's would have needed major maintenance checks, too.

But that applies to any aircraft with any airline. Some of WN's aircraft have been in their fleet for a very, very long time - and they seem to have managed the maintenence checks.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
baw716
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:59 pm

Hi,
If I were to make an educated guess, JetBlue isn't a novelty anymore. While their business model hasn't changed, their size has, and that makes some wonder if they are making the right business decisions based on the current state of the industry.

I also believe part of this has to do with the fact that the legacy carriers are fighting back. Recently, I did a search on fares between SEA-JFK, and I found that UA, DL and AA all had lower fares than JetBlue for the dates specified, and JetBlue's only flight from here is a red-eye. It is an open question as to how much capacity these carriers are dedicating to these fares, but given that we are talking about 150 seats or so, it wouldn't take much to wreak havoc on them here. However, they also have the last flight from JFK to SEA, so that flight goes out pretty full all the time, even though the price is higher. Whether it covers the cost of the route is an open question.

I have to imagine that they are facing the same situation in many of their other transcon markets where they have limited service. Where they have higher frequency, they tend to do better. One thing they have done, which I think is a mistake is that they have raised their walkup fares on flights which are more heavily booked. Since most of their transcon flights are heavily booked, this means that a businessman who was paying $599 rt for a walkup fare is now paying closer to $700 or so, while UA/DL/AA offer fares in the $198-$500 range and offer the frequent flyer programs that customers have come to expect from an airline.

To my way of thinking, JetBlue has always attempted to balance low fares and a quality product. Since they have focused more on quality, they have had to raise fares. If they can make money doing this, good for them. However, since there are still very large competitors out there, they have to be a little careful. Giving up one of the biggest parts of their marketing scheme (no fare higher than $299 one way), this may open the door for the big guys to allocate just enough seats to make JetBlue sweat.

We are just now going to find out if David Neeleman is as good an airline man as he thinks he is, and what most of us thought to be a couple of years ago.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
bwc1976
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:31 pm

They're still as good or better than ever, but they still don't fly where I need to go.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:52 pm

I can't wait for B6 to become B-zero.

Down with the LCC's.
 
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vatveng
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:55 pm

People love the "underdog"... the come-from-behind victory... etc...

JetBlue used to be the small guy. Everybody cheered for them.

Just look at all the US Airways cheerleaders on here... even though US is in nosedive, a lot of us are cheering for them to get it together and pull the nose up, although it's not so much optimism as it is wishful thinking... But US is the current "underdog" of the US airlines. A.Netters are paying much more attention to them than to B6 right now.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:16 pm

We don't need JetBlue anymore... there is more room in coach  Big grin
 
Udo
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:34 pm

I can only laugh at he guys who praise legacy carriers' low fares to match B6...what if B6 (or any other attacked LCC) is gone? Legacy carriers then return to their high fares and people have to pay...but some fools still don't get it...


Btw, B6 won't fail...before they fail all many other carriers (especially the legacy carriers) must get their seat mile costs down...and B6 cannot be matched here so easily...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
So don't expect the legacy carriers being able to offer low fares at high costs so long...just look at Delta and how they are struggling.


Fly jetBlue!
Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
F4N
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:42 pm

To all:

Jetblue is just another carrier; if they get you where you want to go for the least $$$, fly with them. If not, use another carrier. They have a good product, new planes and low[er] fares, but they're certainly not magical.

regards,

F4N
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:07 pm

Mariner:

The quality of discourse in these threads often does not rise above the intellectual level of "sportsfandom," which is often characterized by irrational loyalty to or hatred of the "organization" (airline and/or sports team) under discussion. The perceived "underdog" is often the object of affection. Seems as though B6 is rapidly losing the protective veneer of the underdog as it grows larger.

Cheers
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Greg
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:28 pm

Like many, I used to be the other way around...I was never much of a JetBlue fan in their early days because my experiences with them were not that great (this was 99% related to limited scheduling and no ff program).

My issue with them now is that they have deviated from their primary mission and broken many of the known tenets for keeping a LCC profitable--which, I think analysts agree, will endanger the airline's viability.

JetBlue employees are great--it's their management that needs the LCC 'refresher.' It's stock performance and earnings/share from a year ago pretty much tells the tale....
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:57 pm

You asked a very good question.

My take on it.

I use to get into these pissing matches when they reared there heads. I pretty much stopped as it tended to be the same ones for B6 and the same ones against B6. Every one does have there opinion and are welcome to express it, though after while we are just beating a dead horse. The same thing happens once a WN post is started.

I do feel now that B6 has managed to stay around the novelty is over and they are becoming a serious contender, and people are threatened by the success of B6.

Time will tell if they make it or not, for me I do own stock in B6 and am here for the long run.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:16 pm

I don't know what everyone is making a big deal about. There is no airline out there that everybody loves. One person may love this airline. Do one thing to piss off that passenger and their loyalty is out the door.

Most people on this forum complain that JetBlue is the next PeopleExpress and Midway by expanding to fast, not paying for their planes yet, and what's going to happen when the D checks come around.

JetBlue tried something new and its working. Working so well that most airlines are trying to copy it, like Song for example. If JetBlue shuts down, of course all the other airlines would love it. But, it's the passengers who lose out in the long run pay paying inflated fares to the legacy carriers. Let's not forget, air travel is no longer for the rich and well-to-do crowds. That's why we have LCC's. LCC's are for people who need to get away from their stressful days and nagging bosses. So, if they could get a cheap flight to wherever they want to go, more power to them.

I believe if you think an airline is doing something wrong business wise, start your own airline and see if you could do it better.

LUV4JFK
 Big thumbs up
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
ltbewr
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:56 pm

One other potential problem area for JetBlue is the NYC/Florida markets. There is a lot of competition from legacy carriers (AA, DL, CO) and other LCC's like Spirit. This is further compounded by the recent rash of bad weather in Flordia where you lose fares you will never get back as a short term problem and the long-term changes in demand by tourists and residents who live in both FLA and NYC area moving back to the NYC area. DL has also recently expanded it's international and domestic services (including transcons) out of JFK too seeing a need and the success of JetBlue.
 
GMUAirbusA320
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:03 am

:
"I can't wait for B6 to become B-zero.

Down with the LCC's. "

Yeah, good idea. Higher ticket prices force people to use cars..which would pump out more pollution. Additionally, higher ticket prices would mean it would cost more for businesses to send their employees places to expand or meet with fellow co-workers. What does this mean for you and I? Less competition, and higher prices on goods and services....you must be a communist.

GO KERRY!!!


 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:07 am

^^^ Lame post of the day right there folks.

BTW.. Increased pressure from LCC's results in network carrier failure and loss of service to small markets which can no longer be supported. Resulting in even higher fares, less competition and complete loss of service to as many as 100 markets. Next.

[Edited 2004-09-27 18:09:10]
 
GMUAirbusA320
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:05 am


Hmm..let's see. The United Nations did a survey which concluded 60% of the world's population will be living in cities by 2020 or 2030 (I can't remember)...NOT SMALL AREAS! Besides, less service to other areas is a natural influx of the capitialist market. If there is very little demand for service, then the airlines ought not feel obligated to serve those small markets.

The network carriers cannot afford their crappy route structure system. IT IS OLD AND OUTDATED...which makes them wonder why they don't earn any money. Old planes, old money forecasts, old business plans, and UNIONS do not work in today's rapidly changing industry (SORRY DELTA). It is FUEL PRICES, 9/11 taxes, and no security for smaller airports which make them less viable as well (NOT LCC'S). Airlines must be flexible, and willing to quickly change their route structure, technology, etc.

I see you cannot act your age by pointin out "^^^Lame post of the day"
STICK TO THE FACTS...not resulting in 5th grade insults.

Cheers
GMUAirbusA320
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:16 am

What I think is odd, we pick on the LCC's for paying employees lower rates and how it is bad for the majors, though on the other hand we have all these express carriers that are doing the exact same thing only under the umbrella of the parent company........
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
access-air
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:21 am

I have a question...what is an Airbii?????
Is that the new Webster's or Funk and Wangle's Plural term for an Airbus???

As for the topic, I have no idea why people have changed an attitude or have become less enthusiastic about JetBlue....Personally Until they make up their minds to fly to the Midwest like Ohare or Midway, I could care less....I find nothing actually exciting or different about their colour scheme and the thought of a PTV in ever seat does not get my adrenaline pumping. All I can think about is an airplane accident with a PTV smashing into my poor little face...Or actually in my case since I sit so high in the seatsitd displace my ribs.
MY freind raves about the service on JetBlue after flying it just once....Sounded pretty mundane to me....
I guess eventually an airline no matter how much capital they have if they go expanding with abandon and their growth out paces their means of operational capabilities, then it will be matter of time before they start taking heavy losses...
Wasnt that what happened with Las Vegas based National Airlines??
Had lots of capital at first the expanded all over and we all knwo what happended then.

Slow and deliberate expansion is the key....A la Southwest....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
sfointern
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:27 am

As with everything else, there's a honeymoon period. JetBlue is coming near the end of its honeymoon period on A.net.
 
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mariner
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:28 am

Access-Air:

It should really be Airbi. It comes from the Latin language and it started as a sort of a joke.

In Latin, a noun that ends with "us" becomes "i" when it is plural.

So one hippoptamus is just that. Two are two "hippopotami."

Because "Airbusess" is a fairly odd word, some bright spark went to the Latin and came up with "Airbi".

It was just a joke, but it seems to have stuck.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:30 am

"I'm not ready to write off B6 just yet...a lot will depend on US, and how B6 can respond to an impending US failure."

Are you people asleep or have we all gone nuts on this forum?

Ready to write off B6? Who the hell are you fooling?
They are consistently profitable.
They have 200+ planes on order.
They are building a huge hub at JFK.
They are the largest carrier at JFK.
They are the largest carrier on the busiest route in the country (JFK-FLL). They are the largest carrier from NYC (the largest aviation market in the world) to Florida and California (the two biggest destinations from the world's largest aviation market).

I sure as hell hope you are not writing them off---because if you are you must be living under a rock or in denial.

If you're writing off B6--what do you say about Delta? Perhaps a comment on UAL? Love to hear a hypothesis on US while you are at it!

B6 is the lone bright spot in the NYC aviation market and is one of the only bright spots in US aviation market. They have made eveyone impove their service, fares, and product.

I venture to say that they have changed the face of air travel for the 21st century--FOR THE BETTER!

No more Saturday night stays.
No $1200 last minute tickets to go on an hour long flight.
No more grumpy F/As, ground staff.
Bags that arrive within 15 minutes.
Lot's of frequency to airports that are actually in a city.

These aren't opinions--they are simple facts. Love them or hate them--B6 is the future.

PJ




 
FrontierA319
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:26 am

I am probably going to get flamed for this but.... In my honest opinion, I think the hole anti B6 (and LCC's in general) comes down to a bit of jealousy. Alot of people are very Attached to the Majors, and while the majors are having some difficulties, the LCC's for the most part are still making profits. and some people dont like that.


Chris.
A Whole different Animal!
 
boeingpride800
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:43 am

How can people be so negative? jetBlue is a great airline! Although I can see your point. You always here people say, a business that expands to early can be failure. But if I weren't working for NW Airlink (Pinnacle) jetBlue would be the ONLY airline I'd fly.
 
hz747300
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:45 am

Ready to write off B6? Who the hell are you fooling?
They are consistently profitable.
They have 200+ planes on order.
They are building a huge hub at JFK.
They are the largest carrier at JFK.
They are the largest carrier on the busiest route in the country (JFK-FLL). They are the largest carrier from NYC (the largest aviation market in the world) to Florida and California (the two biggest destinations from the world's largest aviation market).


Reality Check:
1. Well, profits have declined - but compared to perrenial losers, I see your point.
2. I'm not convinced 200 planes on order is a good thing.
3. This I think does work - there was zero LCC presence in the immediate NYC area until jetBlue. (Save your WN at ISP crap, it's not NYC)
4. This is true, and they found a good market they have exposed it. SONG and AA have piled on it as well.
5 & 6. This is okay, but what are their fares? There is so much competition for the cash paying retired mobster on the NYC-South Florida routes that these routes will never be real bonanzas for any carrier.

For the transcon routes, service wise I think they have an advantage. Why I don't fly them is so I can accumulate miles for flights to Europe with AA and UA--Loyalty schemes do work!

I agree with FrontierA319, there is some people that believe the site of an LCC is an ugly one, when spotting at BWI is reduced to watching the steady stream of blue & mustards of Southwest.

I am guessing the board has done a 180 on them because they are no longer new and exciting anymore, which will impact their cult status.
Keep on truckin'...
 
ScottB
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:41 am

Well, as others have said, jetBlue is no longer the latest thing, so some of the hype has died down. It's like any fad -- at some point, the luster wears off and the product begins to seem very ordinary and formulaic. It's just like clothing or toys -- when a product is the "in" thing, it's very hot. Afterwards, the interest cools and people move on to the next thing. Those of us old enough to remember PeoplExpress also remember that it was the "in" thing in travel from the New York area for a few years -- but eventually the PeoplExpress experience got old, too.

Some folks are fair weather fans -- they see 15% operating margins and go ga-ga without looking at the underlying numbers and what they mean for the future. Others take a look and say, gee, that's impressive, but what do you do about the fact that the break-even load factor is almost as high as some of the money-losing legacy carriers -- while jetBlue is still benefiting from low average wages and aircraft that are still largely under warranty. Some of us have been saying all along that the stock was priced with some unrealistic expectations -- that the company would be able to maintain load factors in the upper 80's while expanding by 30-50% per year. It's my opinion that the stock prices and "buzz" around jetBlue are now starting to reflect the facts that you can only fill so many daily JFK-FLL flights, that costs are going to go up, that other LCC's and network carriers are going to compete aggressively, and that jetBlue will have to figure out how to profitably serve smaller markets in order to continue expanding.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:47 am

Hmm..let's see. The United Nations did a survey which concluded 60% of the world's population will be living in cities by 2020 or 2030 (I can't remember)...NOT SMALL AREAS! Besides, less service to other areas is a natural influx of the capitialist market. If there is very little demand for service, then the airlines ought not feel obligated to serve those small markets.

The network carriers cannot afford their crappy route structure system. IT IS OLD AND OUTDATED...which makes them wonder why they don't earn any money. Old planes, old money forecasts, old business plans, and UNIONS do not work in today's rapidly changing industry (SORRY DELTA). It is FUEL PRICES, 9/11 taxes, and no security for smaller airports which make them less viable as well (NOT LCC'S). Airlines must be flexible, and willing to quickly change their route structure, technology, etc.

I see you cannot act your age by pointin out "^^^Lame post of the day"
STICK TO THE FACTS...not resulting in 5th grade insults.


Nice sweeping generalizations. BTW the US trend is away from Cities at present. The UN... Laughable. Old planes? You must be on Mars. Airlines are a lot more flexible than you think. Perhaps you'd prefer a re-reglated state of affairs? That's where the LCC's are taking us. You're clearly demonstrating your age and lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

I am probably going to get flamed for this but.... In my honest opinion, I think the hole anti B6 (and LCC's in general) comes down to a bit of jealousy. Alot of people are very Attached to the Majors, and while the majors are having some difficulties, the LCC's for the most part are still making profits. and some people dont like that.

Errr... Wrong. Wanna go for Double Jeopardy?

Anyone can cherry pick high demand routes. That cherry picking leads to a decrease in demand in those markets which weren't over-priced to begin with. End result, the system as a whole suffers.

Don't expect JetBlue to pick up the load either.

[Edited 2004-09-27 22:53:34]
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:10 am

First of all, jetBlue will not do well this quarter, but that is mainly due to the hurricanes. They are not losing passengers or anything like that. In fact, a lot of people go out of their way (past Song, past Indy Air, past Southwest) to fly jetBlue.

My B6 flight to LGA (Friday) was booked up until row 17! And this is with little advertising and it was booked about 4 or 5 weeks out! Not to mention the route is only 2 weeks old!

I have commented on jetBlue before, but that was when it was a novelty...to me DirecTV is as important as in flight service and the view (on my outbound, it will be dark, so IFE is very important!)....However, I am going to fly with an open mind and have an honest opinion of the airline. I do not think my opinion will be negative (I think they are doing something right, making ANY profit in this industry!) My departing flgiht FROM LGA had very similiar loads, again 5 weeks out!

Some concerns I have:
I'm here at FLL, so my departure flight should be no problem, but lets say that there is a problem with the plane at LGA, we're stuck! Now, I must reiterate that we are at FLL, which can see up to 5 B6 planes at once, so it is more of an issue for me as, say, an a.net member in ONT or SJC, cities which only get 1 plane per day. (hope this makes sense)

Also, how accurate is the 15 minute baggage deal...My dad is worried that with our flight being the only one that it will take forever to get the bags...his idea: don't check bags (he has never checked bags in his life, unless on a family trip); my concern: TSA is very strict, they'll go through our 3 carry on clothing bags looking for the hairdryer (lol)...I'll say to my dad "told ya so!" Do you think that we should check our bags or carry them on (note, we will also be carrying on a backpack, purse, and possibly a laptop case; wich I believe all count as a personal item.)

I'm looking foward to jetBlue, and I think it will be a great expirence, but I am going to give no opinion until I actually fly them...so expect a trip report Sunday or Monday!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
ACAfan
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:23 am

I dislike Jetblue because they do not serve RIC.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
ual777contrail
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:24 pm

jfklganyc,
someone bleeds B6,sad


Funny to read these post about how awesome these LCC's are, the post wasnt intended for a LCC lecture but always seems to bring the folks from the next trailer park over for a beer(Olympia,Busch) B6 has such awesome IFE and they are such a cool airline, but it isn't hard to fit 20 or 30 planes with TV's, sad the Legacy carriers didn't have that option back in the 30's,40's,50's,60's,70's,80's90's and so forth. Everybody loves a good LCC and when fuel prices return to earth the majors may deal them a crap hand.

we'll see

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:35 pm

UNIONS do not work in today's rapidly changing industry (SORRY DELTA)

What the heck does that have to do with anything? Granted, DL's Union has held out a little too long...but look at all the other airline's pilot unions out there, mostly under ALPA, but some others like APA...these unions are there to make sure that the company doesn't take advantage of some of their most essential employees. This has nothing to do with the thread. Plus they'll always be here, sorry man.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:41 pm

Hey UAL 777 Contrail:

What was it . . . 56 million dollars in August. I wouldn't put down B6 too quickly.

PJ
 
Guest

RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:16 pm

can't wait for B6 to become B-zero.

Down with the LCC's.


Don't you wish buddy. You probably work for a major carrier and wish that your company was making money. I hope that southwest or jetblue puts your company out of business so people like you can beg to have a job with a real airline that makes money.
 
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ual747den
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:07 pm

I think, like a lot of you have said, that B6 was the underdog and everyone likes seeing the underdog come in and win. B6 also created a lot of hype in their marketing and PR. People here and pax around the system jumped on the band wagon just like B6 wanted. Today B6 is not the only LCC with PTV's and leather seats, today its almost the standard for LCC's. I think a lot of people are now seeing what I and others have been saying all along and that is that B6 is growing way way too fast and they do not realize that there will be great expenses that will come along with that in a few years when the "hype" settles and employees start to get pay raises, aircraft starts to get older, Legacy carriers start to bring costs down, and business travelers get those large expense accounts again and buy tickets in business class. I hope all the best for B6 and would like to see them long into the future but in my (non-CEO) opinion I think they need to slow down and look far into the future to see where there place is going to be.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:27 pm

I think the whole problem is the majority of the 16-20 armchair airline CEO's that frequent a.net are always looking to bash someone else's idea (good or bad) and hate it when they get proven wrong. I wonder how many of the "B6 fans" started out trashing, what was then known as New Air? Probably most of them!

Instead of bashing a good concept, why not trying to develop and implement your own great airline. A penny to a pound, there will be no takers on that, so they must contend with bashing someone else's sound ideas!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:07 am

Don't you wish buddy. You probably work for a major carrier and wish that your company was making money. I hope that southwest or jetblue puts your company out of business so people like you can beg to have a job with a real airline that makes money.

Actually, I do trending models on the impacts of LCC's on the system as a whole. It's going to be consolidation round 2 in about 18 months. About 20-30 small cities will lose service as a result. It's not going to be pretty. And no, I don't work for an airline.

Instead of bashing a good concept, why not trying to develop and implement your own great airline. A penny to a pound, there will be no takers on that, so they must contend with bashing someone else's sound ideas!

Here's a challenge. Given the lower cost structures, start a new carrier using the pre-deregulation model where First Class still exists and coach has 36" seat pitch. It can be done easily. Without cherry picking. Air Tran could dump 10 seats per bird and still beat the network carriers cost structure. So why not do it??? Wussies.

[Edited 2004-09-28 17:11:38]
 
baw716
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:24 am

OK everyone, settle down...

This back and forth is getting a little silly. Can we accept the fact that B6 is becoming less of a novelty and more of a competitive reality for the majors? Yes I agree with some that have said their management needs a reality check. Rapid growth in a market where everyone else is losing gobs of money is a risky strategy. I also think that their strategy of moving away from a capped top end walk up fare is a dangerous move. They are not big enough to take on the entire industry, who can match or lower fares and kill them in the marketplace because they are just at the point they are large enough to be at risk.

My suggestion now is that if we cannot come up with logical arguments either for or against this position and all we can do is bash each other because we state an opinion...perhaps we all need a reality check.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
Guest

RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:36 am

Instead of bashing a good concept, why not trying to develop and implement your own great airline. A penny to a pound, there will be no takers on that, so they must contend with bashing someone else's sound ideas!


That is too much work for these kids. That is one problem I have here, everyone thinks they know everything. If jetBlue was not so successful, then why are we still around and why are we making money when 90% of the US industry is not?? Hmmmm
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:14 am

LGB...

Back end loaded leases, bottom of the pay scale employees and cherry picked high density routes.
 
Guest

RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:01 pm

Us or them? I think that our rampers atleast are payed more starting than most airlines.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:45 pm

But no one is at the top of their pay scale. No pension plans, No work rules, and Higher utilization of staff.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:17 am

and cherry picked high density routes.

I wouldn't exactly call JFK-Upstate New York and Burlington, MSY, RSW, SMF, and IAD-SMF, BOS-DEN the high density routes. Before JetBlue, upstate had limited service via US, MSY had very little service, as did RSW. SMF didn't even have service, and BOS-DEN only had 4 flights on one carrier.

These aren't "high density" routes...

JetBluefan1
 
SunValley
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:23 am

Perhaps they tried the "jetBlue" experience and were dissapointed as was I.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:56 am

When they fly JFK to Fargo I'll bite. Won't do much good though. Can't get me from So Cal to Fargo that way and they sure as hell aren't going to fly LGB-FAR.

MSY - Tourism
RSW- Chad hanging old farts visiting family
SMF - Capital of the state with the largest US economy to the Capital of the US, no shocker. Solid market, just ask SWA.
IAD-SMF - See above
BOS-DEN - Very popular route. Look at UAL's schedule.
Burlington adn Buffalo had about the same level of service when TWA was alive and kicking.


[Edited 2004-09-29 23:57:09]
 
ual777contrail
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RE: JetBlue - What Changed On A.net?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:36 pm

JFKLGA,
It was 56 million, B6 isn't the size of UAL SO you cant compare the two. Sad you bleed for such a lame carrier, but I guess someone has to. When UAL starts making money what excuse will you use then? better think of them now so you dont respond like a moron later.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL

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