ConcordeBoy
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Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:19 am

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/192864_air29.html

It'll break the record set by a 772ER (9M-MRA) in 1997. That aircraft flew BFI-KUL at a distance of 12,455mi.

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Photo © M Radzi Desa



Boeing expects the 772LR to add another thousand miles or so to that distance. This was pretty much expected though; notice Airbus didn't even try to take the record with the A345.




Good stuff!  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-09-29 22:24:55]
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solnabo
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:22 am

The -LR doesn´t sell like hotcakes, not yet anyway  Big grin

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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:24 am

Airbus bias aside, I too am suprised they didn't try to break Boeing's record. It's a little out of charachter for a manufacture whose advertising and self-promotion is usually borderline arrogant. If you're going to paint this on an aircraft, at least waste a tank of gas getting into Guiness!


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Photo © Steve Dreier





The -LR doesn´t sell like hotcakes, not yet anyway

Oh god I hate that expression  Insane

[Edited 2004-09-29 22:25:39]
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:25 am

Nor will it likely every. However, unlike its A340 competition, at least Boeing has a trump card for sales of the 772LR vis a vis its B-market sister.
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hz747300
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:26 am

Hmmm... Me thinks some bait has been put into the water. I'm not biting!

I like that it can do LHR-SYD nonstop; however will the payload restrictions make that irrelevant?

It's impressive, but how far an aircraft can fly empty is meaningless. Remember Boeing also had a BBJ (736) go nonstop from SEA-JED.
Keep on truckin'...
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:26 am

I hope they can demonstrate that an LHR-SYD round trip is feasable with a full passenger and cargo load. There seems to be some doubts about that.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:27 am

The -LR doesn´t sell like hotcakes, not yet anyway

Boeing didn't build it to sell like hotcakes. It's a niche product. The important thing is that it needs to make a profit.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:27 am

at least waste a tank of gas getting into Guiness!

What'd be the point, knowing that you'd surely be shown up in a short matter of time.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:28 am

Remember Boeing also had a BBJ (736)

no 736 has ever been a BBJ
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:30 am

I hope they can demonstrate that an LHR-SYD round trip is feasable with a full passenger and cargo load. There seems to be some doubts about that.

LHR-SYD is possible, but the return trip wouldn't be economical.

It's impressive, but how far an aircraft can fly empty is meaningless. Remember Boeing also had a BBJ (736) go nonstop from SEA-JED.

Uh.... there are no 737-600 BBJ
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MD11Lover
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:31 am


Whats the point of beating the world record? Both Boeing and Airbus know what the 345 is capable of, i dont think it needed to prove anything to anyone. The Boeing 777LR hasnt even been built yet, so i think we better save this topic for when and if it does break the world record.
Setting that aside, the A345 is MUCH better looking than any T7 variant.


MD11lover
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:33 am

I would love to be a passenger on that record flight.

Especially if they are going to make half a dozen fuel stops, where I can get out of the plane and stretch my legs.  Big thumbs up
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solnabo
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:33 am

"772-LR to break World Record"......

Does Airbus have to proof anything for Boeing?

This sounds like the 7e7: the second coming of Jesus IMO.

Micke/SE Big grin
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:39 am

Does Airbus have to proof anything for Boeing?

Not at all... but laying claim to the world's longest non-stop flight of a commercial aircraft is a great marketing tool. And like I said, it only takes a tank of gas  Big grin
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:41 am

Setting that aside, the A345 is MUCH better looking than any T7 variant.

um... only if we were talking soda cans, then maybe  Laugh out loud





Does Airbus have to proof anything for Boeing?

Hmm, they seemed more than happy to do so when it was 747 versus A342.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:42 am

waste a tank of gas getting into Guiness!

That's all it is. What's the point of flying an empty PASSENGER aircraft? That will hardly impress anyone from the airline business. Demonstrate it with full load of pax and cargo on a business-wise meaningful route and then claim victory.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:45 am

"That aircraft flew BFI-KUL at a distance of 12,455mi"

Did they intentionally fly the long way? Why is that routing about 4000 miles more than the shortest distance between the two cities?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:45 am

What's the point of flying an empty PASSENGER aircraft?

Simple.

Since they have to do route-proving runs during pre-delivery testing anyways... may as well go for the gusto in the process.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:47 am

Did they intentionally fly the long way? Why is that routing about 4000 miles more than the shortest distance between the two cities?

BFI-KUL-BFI

RTW, with the first segment being transatlantic, and the entire trip a subsonic speed record.
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:50 am

according to great circle mapper, bfi-kul is only 8071 miles...not 12,455.

which is correct?
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:51 am

So now Boeing has to proof to Airbus that -LR is much better in range than A345? We all know that, C-boy.

C´mon, thought you were more mature! Puhhleezzee....

Micke  Insane
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:52 am

Scroll up
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:53 am

So now Boeing has to proof to Airbus that -LR is much better in range than A345? We all know that, C-boy

...for your own edification: might I refer you to Reply #17  Insane
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:58 am

Soblano.. surely your vision must be failing, as you've rolled your eyes so often and so vigerously that I can practically hear them doing cartwheels in your skull, all the way down in Texas  Big grin

So now Boeing has to proof to Airbus that -LR is much better in range than A345? We all know that, C-boy.

Boeing has to prove the aircraft can fly certain routes, what's the harm in flying a little longer to break their own record?
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hz747300
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:25 am

Remember Boeing also had a BBJ (736)

no 736 has ever been a BBJ


My bad... it was a 737-700


http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/q2/nr_020409g.html

Keep on truckin'...
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:29 am

Funny thing is that this T7LR "record" falls short of Seattle's own 42 years old record of 12,535 miles. (Okinawa - Madrid, 1st November 1962, Boeing B-52H, 8 P&W TF-33P-3).

Such a long range flight is a public stunt made by the marketing department. Most interesting thing is, will the date be announced in advance? If so, how long time in advance, the day before or...?

The major problem is that it will be embarrassing if they fall short. What is needed is extremely favorable tailwinds, and therefore exceptionally good advice from the weatherman. And also some luck. Seattle is hoping for a whole string of tropical hurricanes lined up so they can ride on the tailwind side of them.

Last Sunday afternoon I traveled at "supersonic groundspeed" going from KEF to CPH in 2h20min in a beatup old B733 while skirting the southern part of the Atlantic hurricane Karl.

[Edited 2004-09-29 23:33:24]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:32 am

Pretty sure the B-52H flight involved air-to-air refueling. The 772ER and B-52H are almost exactly matched in terms of range/payload, so I doubt an unloaded B52 would be able to fly much further than an unloaded 772ER.

The major problem is that it will be embarrassing if they fall short

Well all they have to do is surpass the 12,455 mi range of the 772ER for the record, I sure *hope* the 772LR can do this, or Boeing has some serious problems to work out!
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prebennorholm
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:40 am

Nope, the B-52 record of 1962 was without airial refueling. The Federation Aeronautique Internationale in Luzern, Switzerland does not list world distance records which involve refueling. And this record is in their books, see www.fai.org
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:48 am

BFI-KUL on Great Circle mapper is west bound. 9M-MRA took off BFI with full load of fuel, EAST-BOUND, not knowing for sure if they could make it but they still tried. Weather was not as pleasant as they'd wanted it to be but it turned out fine and wx became better enroute. After a short turnarond at Subang, they flew the plane back to Seattle.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:55 am

The B-52H flight did not use refueling enroute. I am absolutly sure about this. And it was done with 1962 technology and using the prevailing winds.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:57 am

And yet... how many B-52s do you find in commercial service?
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prebennorholm
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:59 am

The B-52 flew Okinawa - Madrid with 8 old, fuel guzzling P&W TF-33 rated at 17,000 lbs. The combined thrust of those 8 engines is just 18% more than one GE-90-115B engine on the T7LR !!!

Imagine what a B-52 could do with just one fuel efiicient GE-90-115B engine.

But the comparison isn't all that valid because the B-52 is a way too flimsy structure to ever become certified for civil pax transport. The T7LR on the other hand will hopefully be certified very soon.

Also we must assume that the T7LR will take off loaded to MTOW, and not one pound more than that. Who knows how the B-52 was loaded in 1962... And how many miles it rolled on the runway for take off.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:08 am

Also we must assume that the T7LR will take off loaded to MTOW

Why?
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bobnwa
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:11 am

Kadena AFB in Okinawa has a 12,000ft runway and the B52H used up just about all of it on its take-off roll.
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:17 am

So does that mean that Boeing is projecting that it will be able to fly from LAX-SYD-LAX or vise versa? I dont know if that question has been asked before. But that would be interesting. Would any airline use that aircraft to fly the LAX-SYD route if it is possible? And what are the projected routes for that aircraft?



Thanks in advance.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Re

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:23 am

So does that mean that Boeing is projecting that it will be able to fly from LAX-SYD-LAX or vise versa?

Yes this is very much possible  Big grin

But it is unlikely that an airline would use a 772LR for LAX-SYD unless the aircraft were detanked for heavy B-market application...
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Greg
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:17 am

That kind of publicity does not attract sales--so I say, skip it. Proving an empty plane can fly far is hardly an accomplishment--it's actually kind of silly of both manufacturers.

Since they've lost some major competitions in the last six months, I think the money is better spent on marketing...

With only what, five sales of the -200LR...what they need to do is lower the price and promote the hell out of it.

Is it not a fairly good candidate for -200ER routes that could use the payload boost? Or has that been argued to death and I missed it?

It's an interesting aircraft....can almost connect any two points on the globe nonstop. Far cry from the 707....
 
Max Q
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:25 am

That B52 flight was air refuelled, if you double check the story you will see that, in fact the-52 flew non-stop around the world this way, but, so what?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
ha763
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:04 am

So what if the flight will not generate more sales. Boeing will be flying the plane around basically empty anyway during its flight testing, which is when this feat will be attempted. Why not push the plane to its limits to what it can do in real life, not just what is projected by computer simulation?
 
707lvr
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:32 pm

Probably belongs in military, but just for the record:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/b52-strat/b52_50th/story2.htm

They would know.

[Edited 2004-09-30 06:49:04]
 
Aerosvit
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Interesting

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:23 pm

I think it's very interesting on how far we can go. I guess since how far up we can go is kinda out of the question right now...or the speed records...so I guess how far is just as interesting...

But I wonder...if for say we do start flying London - Sydney non-stop...how long will this take and can we take it. They better have like beds or something for each person. That or now that we have the distance thing down...let's think of speed...
Clava Ykraini
 
IL76TD
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:31 pm

Solnabo Wrote:

"The -LR doesn´t sell like hotcakes, not yet anyway"

Last time i checked, neither has the A345, and its been around for a little while now.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:00 pm

Max Q,

Suggest you check your facts. I know the B52H was NOT refueled!!!!
 
Greg
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:10 pm

Ha763....pushing the plane to 'to it's limits' to see what it can do 'in real life' does not occur with a basically empty aircraft during flight testing. Nor does it occur with an aircraft loaded with water ballast.

This was made painfully aware by the original A340-300 and the MD-11 who's performance guarantees were basically intact during the flight testing----only to have them revised downward after service entry.

Lucky for Boeing...and more so for the 777 program, that I beleive they have surpassed most the important estimates by notable margins.
 
123
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:38 pm

How many hours would a LHR/SYD flight be.... seems it must be torturous long, whatever class one is entitled to sit in!

 
elcapi1980
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:33 pm

The -LR doesn?t sell like hotcakes, not yet anyway -

------------
I don't think that comment belongs to the topic, it is completely irrelevant, in fact you sound like a jealous child.


Does Airbus have to proof anything for Boeing?
-------------
no, they can't. Maybe copy them, at most


I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
sdkualeb
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:00 pm

I don't like this (mine is bigger then yours) I worry that one day the results will be devastating. Boeing dose not need to prove to me they are the best, I already know they are.
 
Udo
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:00 pm

Elcapi1980,

you say other posts sound childish...so what about your last comment?

Airbus has proven a lot so far in its history. To claim Airbus "can only copy them (Boeing)" is a proof that you don't really know what's going on. With such a comment, you are totally lacking an objective (and educated) view on the competition between Airbus and Boeing.
Why don't you become a cheerleader, would suit you well!  Laugh out loud


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
maddy
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:00 pm

"no, they can't. Maybe copy them, at most "

Count the engines and you see how much is copied! And today the A345 is serving the longest route WITH PASSENGERS AND CARGO.

Why all the records set by boeing are without passengers and cargo?

And the comment belongs in a way to the topic because you don´t need a record to sell a plane well. Look how Airbus does!
 
Udo
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RE: Boeing To Use 772LR To Break Nonstop Flight Record

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:07 pm

It's really enjoyable to read some comments here...they all sound like the "God's chosen country" crap...it shows stupidity will live as long as earth goes around the sun...or even longer...



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

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