ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:52 am

They will not take any ATA pilots. Get real! B-737 pilots are a dime a dozen these days.


AirTran737,

There is fragmentation language in our most recent side letter. Frangmentation language and $5.00 will get you a Starbucks coffee.

[Edited 2004-10-06 19:00:52]

[Edited 2004-10-06 19:01:23]
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:07 am

Ifly2eat:

...huh?
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:25 am

It's amazing how this thread - based on a galley rumor spread by someone who claims to be a SWA pilot - has already prompted so many responses.

May I point out that just a few weeks ago ATA declared in a SEC filing (!) that they have no intention to rid themselves of the B738-fleet?

Aside from that, ATA does not have anything for sale. Their entire modern jet aircraft fleet (that's the B757-200, -300, and the B737-800) is on operating leases. Since ATA's leasing rates are already on the high side (which is part of their problems), they are not even in a position to sublease the fleet to Southwest; the reason being that Southwest with its excellent credit rating would get the same planes a lot cheaper, if they ordered directly from Boeing.
And why would ATA continue to install business class seats in their planes? Southwest certainly has no use for them.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
kevin752
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:18 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:37 am

So basicly ATA is a done deal very soon. That is very sad. I guess there will be no more plesant Hawaiin flights Wit TZ from LAX anymore soon.
Kevin752
"Keep Climbing"
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:39 am

For the record... there are airlines that operate the 738 with only three flight attendants. AA is one of them. The FAA requires one F/A per 50 seats. AA's 738s only have 142 seats: 16 in first and 126 in coach. A fourth flight attendant is onboard at times, but this simply has to do with AA's staffing and service levels, not the FAA.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:46 am

ATA is a financial mess...I'm actually surprised they are still flying.

In regard to the 737's....they are definetly trying to divest themselves of the obligation:

From Reuters on August 25th:
<<"....ATA is also trying to transfer the leases on its more than 30 Boeing 737-800 jets, Makhija said. "But once they transfer the leases, they will not be able to use the planes, and the 737-800s are the best aircraft for ATA's business. So transferring the leases will reduce obligations in the short term, but could harm the business in the long term," he said...>

Boyd Aviation analysts mentioned that ATA will likey concentrate on Las Vegas and other inclusive tour destinations with a drastically reduced fleet.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3436
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:13 am

Look for an announcement from ATA by the 14th of this month.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:14 am

Okay Vanguard what part don't you understand?
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
barney captain
Topic Author
Posts: 2287
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:17 am

PHX Flyer,

I realize there is now way to validate someones credentials here on Anet so I won't take your questioning of my profile to heart  Big grin Having said that, let me restate that this insn't just "a galley rumor". This was delivered by one of our Chief Pilots to a group of pilots in for recurrent training. Does that make it a done deal? No. Does that mean it WILL happen? No. I'm only relaying what little information I had from a fairly reliable source.

Additionally, this was just posted on planebusiness.com;

Speaking of Monopoly, and ATA, I need to update you on the latest news concerning ATA and a possible deal with America West.

Last week I talked about how rumors had America West possibly doing a deal that would see the airline take over ATA's Hawaiian charter work, and the bulk of the airline's 757-300 fleet.

This week, the story has changed. First of all, the story is no longer in the "rumor" category. It's live. It's a real deal.

Sources now tell us that America West and ATA are working on a deal that could see AWA take over the bulk of ATA's operations, including employees.

This news comes as reports continue to circulate that both Southwest and AirTran are also still "in the hunt" so to speak, but not for ATA as is, only for the airline's assets.

From what I understand, an update on the negotiations was presented to pilots at AWA on Monday.



[Edited 2004-10-06 20:19:03]
Southeast Of Disorder
 
ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:22 am

When rumors like these get so hot and heavy I almost look forward to the eventual calm that unemployment will bring.

[Edited 2004-10-06 20:22:55]
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:24 am

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Y'all said they same exact stuff a month ago, I should hire you all to pick my lotto numbers, problem is, your predictions are always wrong!

And for the record, ATA is ALWAYS in a financial mess, have been since '71!!
I will be scared the day we are fiancially SOUND!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

BTW: I smelled whiskey on the precher's wife's breath!  Wow!
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:29 am

>>>It's amazing how this thread - based on a galley rumor spread by someone who claims to be a SWA pilot - has already prompted so many responses.

Not that it means anything to some folks, but I can confirm that Barney Captain is who he says he is...i.e. a real live airline pilot.


>>>Aside from that, ATA does not have anything for sale. Their entire modern jet aircraft fleet (that's the B757-200, -300, and the B737-800) is on operating leases.

I've read elsewhere where some of the 737-800 aircraft (20, IIRC) are lease, and 13 are owned...


>>>Look for an announcement from ATA by the 14th of this month.

As big announcements at SWA commonly come on Thursdays, let's wait a couple of more days and see what happens...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:16 am


Here's something...

Seeing all the confusion, why doesn't WN do what SIA did with their A340's...trade the 738's to Boeing for more 737-700's? Could work, if TZ's are all paid for, and all of the financial logistics are worked out.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:21 am

Why would they do that? Why just not buy the 738s at all, and acquire new 73Gs from Boeing.

SIA had commitments to something they did not want, and traded them for something they did. WN has no obligations to TZ to buy 738s.

N
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:38 am

WN has expressed interest in acquiring three gates from ATA at Midway.
Reuters reported this on the 24th of last month.....ATA confirming that 'some' of the gates would be available for WN (it was ATA who approached WN in the first place---not the other way around).

This is likely the assets that WN will pick from ATA's bones.

Actually, ATA is incredibly cash strapped--and creditors would likely call for liquidation instead of any reorganization. They have no real assets to speak of...or to secure further lending against.

Vanguard...you are remarkably uninformed for someone who works for ATA. Or do you just use 'we' to signify something else?

 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:44 am

WN has expressed interest in acquiring three gates from ATA at Midway.
Reuters reported this on the 24th of last month.....ATA confirming that 'some' of the gates would be available for WN (it was ATA who approached WN in the first place---not the other way around).


I recall reading that the gates that ATA is leasing at MDW are on a "preferential use" basis. This basically means they either use them or lose them, in which they revert back to the airport operator.

In any case, unless ATA is considering subleasing gates while ATA is an operating entity, these gates would first revert back to the airport operator (City of Chicago), who would then be free to lease them to whomever they chose. The gates are not ATA's to sell.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
N766UA
Posts: 8252
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:05 am

I think it's about time ATA got out of the scheduled flying business anyway. They offer absolutly nothing different to the traveler, their fares/airplanes/crews are far from anything special, and they have few convienient flights. Let them go back to doing what they do best and leave the scheduled/low-fare stuff to those who know how it's done.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:07 am

I'm aware of that---I never said 'sold', did I? You can acquire leases as well. There are 27 preferential use gates and two city owned gates. But while ATA is still operating...the transfer of these gates is considered a marketable asset---if only for the duration of it's operation.

The city can reallocate them upon ATA's departure. However, the amount of revenue generated by WN will likely give them a hands up in the allocation upon return to the city...
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:23 am

One of our Chief Pilots has told us that Herb and Gary Kelly were in IND securing 34 of ATA's -800's.

You're kidding me, right?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:36 am

hey N766UA....your comments are pretty funny coming from someone with "UA" on their name, like they are in any better shape....and the new paint job is hideous !!
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:36 am

Greg:

No....I'm definately informed, which is why I am telling you what I have been saying this whole time. I think you are confusing uninformed and unwilling to bet the farm on a rumor, a rumor that has been put out there for God only knows how long and how many times. Remember the rumor about ATA getting A330's? The one about ATA moving headquarters to Chicago? The one about ATA starting flights to London and Germany? The one about ATA getting 717's/A319's? YEA....those sure all came true!

Grow up

Oh yea, Herr Freud: I use "we" because I am an employee and stock-holder, not because of some supressed issue or signify something.
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
Northwest717
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:47 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:40 am

Sounds great, however with several others, I will believe it when I see it.  Big thumbs up

-Tim  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:44 am

Didn't see the word "lease" with regards to gates, written anywhere above; did read "interest in acquiring three gates from ATA at Midway", and "'some' of the gates would be available for WN". Hence my comments above.

I will, however, agree wholeheartedly that it would be in the best interest of the City of Chicago to allocate those gates to WN if and when they become available. I'm assuming, though, that there's no interest from other airlines in those gates?

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the Reuters note on this, if it's available.

Tom at MSY

[Edited 2004-10-06 23:47:02]
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:47 am

N766UA,

I'll assume from your user name that you are a fan of that "other" airline that operates out of O'Hare. By the way have you ever flown on ATA? I submit to you that our airline has a far superior coach product as compared to the back end of United's planes. What really chaffs me is how United lingers in bankruptcy protection, all the while canceling pensions, repainting airplanes, launching an airline within an airline but never once announcing a cohesive plan to exit bankruptcy protection. It is just another illustration of how the U.S. bankruptcy laws have been warped. Again today, Tilton announces, more job cuts and re-emphasis on international routes- yeah this is new! I must say that I am certainly glad United hired the completely talent less and idiotic John Tague from ATA. His record of bankrupting airlines stands at two and soon to be three if ATA does not turn it around very soon. So before you bash another airline, go fly your 172 and play flight sim, you are nothing more than one of the many arm chair CEO's on this board whose IQ is lower than your flight time. Sadly, you are nothing more than an example of what this message board has become.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:51 am

Aside from the rumor itself, why the doubt about Southwest ever flying 737-800's?

I work for Westjet, and once all of our 737-200 aircraft have been retired we'll have a fleet of three different types of aircraft: 737-600 (118 seats), 737-700 (136 seats), and the 737-800 (164 seats). The economics of operating an all-NG fleet is significant in todays industry, and even moreso with the price of fuel today.
EH.
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:53 am

That was very well put Ifly2eat, well put indeed.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:10 am

If anyone is taking over ATA's aircraft/gates, I'd pray they bring the employees over as well.

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Jason McDowell
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2001 4:40 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:38 am

Ifly2eat.......thanks for posting what so many of are constantly thinking.


Welcome to my respected users list.





-JM
 
ordflyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:08 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:52 am

I'll agree with the last few posts...that was a great statement Ifly2eat made.
It is obvious that N766UA, as well as some others have never flown ATA, yet take pleasure in bashing them and burying them prematurely. They DO offer alot to travellers...competitive fares, and new airplanes as well as relatively frequent and quite convenient service to most of America's biggest destinations from their MDW hub. Their coach product is quite good, with IFE on all planes and leather seats on most planes. In addition, their new business class looks interesting. Sure they don't have the size of UA, so they can't compare in terms of number of flights, but I feel that they do a good job with what they have.
I have a feeling that these latest rumors will turn out to be just that...rumors, and not reality.
 
starrion
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:45 am

While ATA's facilities at Boston are overcrowded and shabby, and MDW is very crowded, I was surprised at how well ATA did when I flew them. The aircrafts were clean, in great shape (helps being new) and the F/A's were both personable and professional. I was very surprised.

They hold up well against my experiences with Delta and were far better than the miserable experiences I've had with US Air.

I hope they can pull it together.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
capitol8s
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:23 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:06 am

ifly2eat,

WELL SAID, someone with brains.....

United was ONCE a premier carrier, now it is just another carrier with unhappy employees and crappy service.

You are now part of MY respected users list.
"Happiness is a flight on a Capitol Air DC-10"
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:37 am

If ATA loses their 738s, I'd lose my mind.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:01 pm

How do you get 300 pilots for the airplanes. Easy, the fragmentation clause of the ATA Pilot contract requires that the deal include pilots. This would also benefit WN, because although the airplanes have commonality, the WN 73G's have a cockpit configuration (instruments) similar to classic 737s for commonality in their own fleet.
------

If there is such a clause and it is enforceable, it could be a deal breaker. Southwest is very carefull with its culture - it will go to great lengths to hire people only people who fit in. The only time I can remember Southwest taking people in wholesale as a group was the Morris Air merger. The Transtar purchase did not merge the aquired airline with Southwest's core operation - the airlines remained operationaly seperate - and so can't really be counted. The Morris air merger was a miserable experience culture wise - after that, Southwest probably will not want to bring in a whole uninitiated and unscreened employee group wholesale ever again.

For this reason, the problem of getting enough pilots quick enough is real. As for using -700 trained pilots iin -800's - normally the retraining would go pretty quickly. They are almost the same airplane from the pilot's perspective. However, as I understand it, Southwest's -700 cockpits are somewhat unique in that they are made to look and feel more like the old -300 series than like the -700's of other airlines. I couldn't tell ya all how much this would influence the transition to ATA's -800's. Perhaps Barney Captain could tell us more.

If this rumor is true, I can see some planes sitting in the desert for awhile while new people are hired and trained. Southwest feels that strongly about its culture.

As to the issue of posting rumors, RELAX PEOPLE. This board is not a news wire service and does not label itself as such. You can post all the rumors you want as long as you label them as such both in the message and the topic. Heck, some very interesting threads have started out as just speculation. If you don't like that, don't read internet message boards.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9282
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:15 pm

However, as I understand it, Southwest's -700 cockpits are somewhat unique in that they are made to look and feel more like the old -300 series than like the -700's of other airlines. I couldn't tell ya all how much this would influence the transition to ATA's -800's.

The 737NG has two cockpit configurations, one simmilar to the 777 displays and a second mimicking the 733/734/735 displays. The second option allows an airline with a significant number of older 737s, like WN, to have a common cockpit through the fleet.

As I understand it, the displays are interchangeable and only takes a laptop computer and about a half-hour to swap.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Webb

I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
moman
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:06 pm

Ifly2eat:

How dare you bash United!!!! You might actually offend some of the "United" lovers on here. I got eaten alive in a post because I said some of the same things you did (especially with regards to Ted). Do you not want to believe the fact that United has a superior product to ATA and they have a good plan for exiting bankruptcy? I don't believe it either because I haven't seen it. I'm with you 100%.

As far as ATA, I think they have a superior coach product to United. They have nice, new planes (can't speak for the age of United's planes) and convenient schedules. I also find their web site easier to navigate. I hope they make it okay.

I find it funny that on this message board I've noticed a lot of people who jump down on anyone who says anything less than absolute praise about United. I wonder how many of them have "conflicts of interest", i.e. actually have a fiduciary interest in seeing them survive. I don't. I don't have an interest in any of the airlines. I'm just a passenger and I post my opinions and respect others opinions. I wish others would do the same.

Moman

AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
N1120A
Posts: 26529
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:01 pm

I have flown ATA 6 times (3 Round Trips), all on their L1011s and the planes were always clean, the crews were always cool and the flights great (helps to be on the safest plane ever). I can only imagine what they do with brand new planes.
As far as WN and staffing, they will have no problem staffing the planes, as they are hiring F/As so fast that the WN F/A I have been dating says she is senior at BWI after only 6 months. Beyond that, they will probably be very good to ATA's staff, as they have never laid off a single worker (what other airline can match that?).
As for people who defend UA/AA etc to their death, that is fine. They have FF programs that allow you to do that, but remember, they also treat their workers like dirt and gouged people for years before WN came along and kept everyone honest. ATA is much the same way, and has been successful, just not enough to pay off their heavily loaded debt.
Oh, I did aa check, and ATA owns 9 738s and 2 753s so there it is.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
chicago757
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 7:02 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:01 pm

Geez........I don't know how many times to tell people ATA isnt going anywhere! No one is getting their planes, no one is getting their gate space (especially at MDW). Where do you guys get your info....the "National Inquirer"?
Go White Sox!!!!
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:06 pm

I think if Southwest wants the 737-800's from ATA, they'll take them.

The reason is simple: WN is doing a lot more non-stop transcon flying than it used to do, and the 738 would be perfect for transcon flights to WN's major US East Coast opeations at PHL, BWI, MCO and FLL. It would allow WN to cater to even more tourist business into LAS from the US East Coast, too.
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:38 pm

...as I understand it, Southwest's -700 cockpits are somewhat unique in that they are made to look and feel more like the old -300 series than like the -700's of other airlines

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Southwest Ops prohibit the use of VNAV, autothrottle and autobraking.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26529
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:37 am

<>

Again, much like the flight deck, that is all a case of software and computers. They can reprogram the flight deck and disable autothrottle and autobraking in an hour
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
swacle
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:42 am

Ok, my .02 on this subject...

I am a fan of ATA, always have been. They took the low fare model to the next level, but I don't know if they will succeed in the end. Lets look at the facts. ATA is in serious financial trouble, strike 1. ATA is now --changing--their whole buisness model, adding a buisness class, etc. In my experience, that can only spell disaster. Why change the product if it is selling and you are making money? Strike 2. If ATA is in as deep financially as it seems, then selling and/or returing or trying to re-market their leases, then that becomes strike 3 in my eyes, and ATA as we know it is short lived. Not to try to be the jerk of the bunch, just looking at what seems to be the "facts."

Now, to the second half of my point...

Southwest is a company that has always looked ahead. Whil the rest of the majors are trying to figure out how to remain operational tommorow, WN is looking at how to make money 2, 4, 10 years down the road. Our future profitability doesnt lie with RJ's, it lies with LARGER aircraft. By 2008, WN will have over 600 aircraft in service, and there is a domestic market to fill every one of those, so why not -800's? They would be a good fit on long haul and dense markets (BWI-LAX/LAS, LAS-PHX, LAX-LAX, etc.) and they are still 737's, which means commonality.

Lest put this together. The last of the -200's are gone from the published schedule Jan 16th, 2005. IF, and I emphasise IF, WN were to take ATA's -800's (some or all), now would be a good time to announce it. Have them in service in Early 05 right as the -200's are gone. Excercise some 73G options as -800's, which we CAN do per our agreement with Boeing, and you have a fairly large fleet of -800's.

Will it happen? For the sake of all the ATA employees out there, I hope not. Is it far fetched? No, not at all. I really think that SOMETHING will move in to replace the -200's, and -800's seem to be the best fit...

Don/WN CLE

PS..please excuse the spelling...spell ckeck doesnt seem to be working...
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:14 am

regarding the post about VNAV, autothrottle and autobraking:

VNAV and autothrottle are not used, Southwest wants the pilot to be in somewhat control of the aircraft at all times. There are actually parts missing from the airplane, so it takes a bit more than a computer to disable the auto throttle and VNAV. odds are there would just be a placard at first saying "VNAV inop" etc...

Autobrakes are not currently used, however the equipment is on board, and soon the procedures to follow them will be distributed and implemented. I went on an MX flight in PHX at 1:30am on the 27th of september for a test on the autobrakes. We did 6 touch and go's in a 737-700 at williams gateway airport, just east of phoenix. Operationally they work fine. The program, as far as we in the Pubs dept can gather is a go. They won't be used all the time, but at airports like MDW, SNA or BUR, when the runways are short and in situations where there might be a wet runway or some other operational consideration that would require maximum braking, they would be put into use.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:16 am

Swacle

Very good post, you explained yourself very clearly....
NO URLS in signature
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:22 am

Ignoring all the rumors and cheerleading, the fact is, Tague got ATA into airplanes that were too expensive.

Unless the lessors will give market rates(less likely as ATA's finances slide) they can't continue to operate the way they are. If there's a market for the 737's and 757's, the lessors will be even less likely to let them stay at ATA and try to make a deal in Ch. 11 court. JMO.TC
FL450, M.85
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: WN Gets ATA 800's - It's (un)official

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:53 am

Why would we continue to reconfigure the 73's with Biz class at such an aggressive pace ( almost one per day ) only to let them go ? doesnt make sense? I'm guessing " some " will go and some will stay. HP gets the 200's , FL or WN gets some 73's and the 757-300's operate the UK program and / or PHH ( if we still have it ) Just guessing...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos