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deltadude
Topic Author
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Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:08 am

As you all know ATL is packed, busiest in the world and all. If you were mayor of Atlanta, where would you put a new airport?

Upgrade FTY?

Open Dobbins?

I looking forward to checking out the ideas.....
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:12 am

Upgrade Athens...

Make it a 25 gate facility for domesticate destinations only.. make 4 of the 25 gates restricted to RJ.. with the ability to park multiple RJ at each of those 4 gates.. (ie.. 4 RJ at one gate.. Say gate 22 A-D)

Sounds good to me!
Aiming High and going far..
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:33 am

If Dobbins ever were to cease Military operations, that would probably be the best idea.
 
BOSugaDL
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:33 am

AHN expansion would be awsome for me, I go to UGA, but there would have to be a lot a changes made for that to happen...parking, runway etc....but especailly getting to the airport. athens to atlanta by car is 70 miles but can take 1:20-2 hours because of traffic. GA-316 has a bunch of traffic lights on it which can make the ride really slow. There needs to be an interstate highway, no lights....but I would think that expanding Gwinnett Country Airport would be better. It could easily serve the ever expanding Gwinnett County and areas north and east of Atlanta, just my 2 cents.
 
Gnomon
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:57 am

There's been talk sporadically of putting the second ATL airport way up in Dawson County, a good hour's drive (or more) from downtown Atlanta. Some years ago, the City of Atlanta identified several potential sites, and indeed now owns the land in Dawson County where the second airport would ostensibly be built. Other potential sites include, if I'm not mistaken, Henry County (south of KATL), although I read an article not too long ago indicating that the Dawson County site is most probable. I *believe* GA 400 connects Dawson County to ATL, but I'm not sure. I grew up around there but it's been a while...

I would add that state legislators are working intensely to build the high-speed rail link from ATL to CHA. KCHA is under-utilized and could serve as an effective relief airport for KATL if the high-speed rail comes to pass. Otherwise it's at least 2 hours by car.

I highly doubt Athens-Ben Epps would be a viable option given the City's expressed inclination to expand elsewhere. That officials are so serious about Dawson and Henry counties leads me to believe Athens has been ruled out, probably because of the mess on 316, as the UGA student pointed out.
 
milesrich
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:09 pm

Atlanta will sell the Dawson County land, and will make enough on it to pay for their sewer projects. No airport will EVER be built there. If you think so, you do not understand the COLOR of Atlanta politics. There is always talk about a new airport near Macon. The growth in Atlanta is NOT and will not be to the South. Again, racial factors make growth south unlikely. The airport will stay where it is. It is very close to downtown. Atlanta itself is not a big city, only about 400,000 in population. While it is being regentrified, the political game is controlled by a small group and that is unlikely to change. There are threats by the state to take over the airport, and with the Republican takeover of the State House, that could become an issue, but if it does, be assured it will be tied up in the courts for years. The airport belongs to the city, and I very much doubt that the State can take it over. Dobbins and Gwinnett's Briscoe Field would be ideal satellite airports for limited service, but local opposition to such service would preclude it from ever being initiated. For that matter PDK, would make an excellent in town airport for regional jets or 737/717 service on the North side but again, local opposition would preclude any commercial operations there too. That airport is owned by DeKalb County and that commission will never allow commercial flights.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:12 pm

Milesrich has hit the nail on the head. SW actually sunk money into Gwinnett Co. at one time to upgrade the runway. Word got out and the charter for the airport was quickly changed to prevent passenger service. I don't think it was NIMBY's I think the leader of that had an office at Ft. Widget. His first name was Ron. I doubt Dobbins will ever see it either. The FAA isn't real exceited by the lack of clear zones at the ends of the runway. Besides the Dawson land that will never get built on, the city also owns a site in Paulding Co. to the Northwest. I agree about PDK, no politician in DeKalb would ever even utter the words, it would be the end of their career. It also would be a pain to get to. The roads from the intersates are already clogged in that area. Airports are not on the horizon for the ATL region. We have enough trouble getting sewers, roads, and mass transit built.
 
FlyFL
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:19 am

Falcon Field (KFFC) in Peachtree City, about 30 miles southwest of Atlanta could be a good location, but I'm sure the NIMBY population there would be just as strong as in the North Fulton County area.
- Josh
 
JMV
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:39 am

Ideally for the folks of Atlanta you would want a second airport on the north side of the city, within a half hour drive of the major suburbs in Cobb, North Fulton, and Gwinnett counties. Wait, you can't drive ANYWHERE in North Atlanta in a half hour!

At one time Georgia was in the running for federal funds to trial a Maglev train. The proposal was to run the train between Atlanta and Chattanooga. Had this ever come about you could just as easily expand the Chattanooga airport. Although not stated in the link below, I recall early predictions that the Maglev could travel between Atlanta and Chattanooga in less than an hour. If true, the folks of Atlanta could take the train north faster than they could drive to south to ATL.

http://www.acmaglev.com/overview.htm
Google begins where my brain ends! ©
 
Clipper002
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:40 am

Milesrich is right on with this one. There will never be a second airport for Atlanta. Don't forget, the majority of traffic at Hartsfield is made up of connections. As for Falcon Field in PTC, forget about it. The one runway is 5,000 feet long with no room for expansion in either direction, nor would us locals allow it.

Ed
Ed
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:14 am

Dobbins has been talked about and if there was one airport to get service it would be Dobbins...the NIMBYs won't care becasue they already have loud planes there. I can see Delta, AirTran, Southwest, and jetBlue starting service there with the majority to Florida and the Northeast.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
dl021
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:45 am

I think the idea of another airport has been muted by the new design and plans for another terminal at the airport. The most favored idea the last time they were seriously looking at expansion was Briscoe, and that idea was completely nixed.

I have often thought that PDK would be a good alternate if there was a guarantee that nothing bigger than an RJ was flown in there and nothing before 0630am or after 10pm, currently the hours preferred by the airport. The only way this will happen is if the Airport people learn how to contribute properly to Vernon Jones Re-Election fund, or promise him a job when he is gone from office. PDK is the only airport with the necessary space to put a terminal, as well as proximity to Marta trains for rapid movement to Hartsfield-Jackson. There are two or three buildings that are currently standing with parking available to put a regional airline terminal.

This may become an option in the next few years.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
saigonhouston
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:48 pm

RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:02 am

Yeah Right........ATL is home of Delta and Delta was on the edge of bankrupcy and posted net loss on their income statement repeatedly. If Delta is going under water or operate under bankruptcy protection then there is no need for a "Secondary" airport in Atlanta area. Sorry to say this but ATL is trying to hard to be like (NY, Chicago, LA and Houston) to have 2 airport within a city.
NEVER. NEVER...

Did you all watch CNBC business news during closing bell on last friday? Lot of bad stuffs about Delta financial and their future.

Bonjourhouston.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:22 am

I do agree that another airport for the ATL metro area isn't going to happen any time soon. You'll see a 6th runway on the north side of Hartsfield first.

The growth in Atlanta is NOT and will not be to the South

Have to disagree with you on that one. Henry county is the 6th fastest growing county in the U.S. percentage wise. There is a proposal for a Disney theme park outside McDonough. That IF it happens would be a major draw to the area that would benefit greatly from a nearby airport. A second airport there wouldn't be any further away for many northern tier Atlantans than Dawson county would be and it is much closer to the city center.

Again, racial factors make growth south unlikely.

Do you mean the minority population would hamper growth south? While we could debate that theory, the facts are that the white population of Henry, Fayette, Spalding, Butts, and Coweta counties is 78.3%.
http://www.epodunk.com/counties/ga_county.html
The U.S. average is 75.1%. The reality is that the southern tier offers more opportunity for growth closer in to Atlanta. It hasn't caught up to the northern suburbs, but the gap is diminishing.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
srbmod
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:49 am

PDK: Never will happen. They would build more hangars before they would build a non-FBO terminal building, as there is currently a lengthy waiting list for hangar space. While the location is ideal, with the North/South MARTA line running right near the airport, and the close proximity of major roads, the fact remains that the NIMBYs will keep fighting any sort of expansion @ PDK. They tried to block the FAA funding the airport got to resurface the runways and rework some of the taxiways under the false impression that the new runways will be concrete and that larger jets and commerical service could start up.

LZU: Ideal location off of GA 316, which runs between Gwinnett County @ I-85 up to Athens. Unfortunately, the NIMBYs that live around the area would quash any attempts at allowing commerical service. Back in the early 1990s, the FAA gave the county grants to lengthen the runway to aroune 8,000' and add additional hangars and a control tower on the premises, and the NIMBYs forced them to make the runway shorter than planned. The NIMBYs were already in a huff over the fact the county built the new jail in the same area.

FTY: Too close to the flight patterns @ ATL to really manage any large number of flights. I doubt the NIMBY factor would be as harsh though, since the area around the airport is being more industrial.

FFC: No room for expansion, in fact it is bordered by a golf course on one end (quite fun when on approach).

MGE: Another ideal location, but the airport is also hampered by the flight paths out of ATL. As a result, training flights out of the base have limited areas in which to fly, this would also affect commercial service.

AHN: I've not really been around AHN to really see what room they have in regards to expansion. Larger narrowbodies can land out of there, as DL flies UGA football charters using 757s out of AHN several times during the season.

Dawson County: Other than the long-term hatred of the City of Atlanta gov't by the County Commission, the property is hilly and the Etowah River runs through much of the site, making it tough to build.

Henry County: Nowhere to really build one there, plus the land prices in Henry have really jumped over the last few years. Add to this one of the highest property tax rates in the state, and you have a not too attractive prospect. Henry County was mentioned in the early 1970s when a site between McDonough and Locust Grove was touted for the airport. Some have mentioned Clayton County-Tara Field (4A7) as a potential commercial airfield, potentially as a cargo airport, but there is not too much land around the airport that isn't developed. They are in the process of buying up some parcels around the airport so they can secure the airport better.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:25 am

Dl757md:

The reality is that the southern tier offers more opportunity for growth closer in to Atlanta. It hasn't caught up to the northern suburbs, but the gap is diminishing.

It's nowhere near the northern suburbs. I would agree growth of an airport in the south is possible, but unlikely. The majority of residents in Atlanta-metro live in the northern suburbs... a second, likely smaller airport well north of the northern suburbs would work best for this reason. People wouldn't have to drive all the way down to Hartsfield anymore...plus, it's questionable whether Atlantans would want to spend more time in the car and on the interstates just to travel back through downtown, the 75/85 connector just to go further south of Hartsfield and catch a flight. For these very basic, general reasons, southern expansion is terribly unlikely.

What everyone has to remember is that MARTA is one of the most important links to the construction of a second airport or commerical expansion of any existing airport. The expansion of MARTA is always a testy political issue among suburbanites.

Gwinnett County
As a native of Gwinnett County, I can personally attest to the fact that Gwennitians will not allow LZU to be expanded into a major commercial airport. This will only add to the already congested I-85/SR316 corridor and will depress land value. Gwinnett doesn't have the infrastructure (mainly roads) around LZU to accomodate a spike in traffic. With a population closely nearing 600,000 this would not be a sound investment.

Also, for any major airport in Gwinnett to be efficient and effective you would need a spur of the MARTA rail line to service it....as I mentioned before, so far, all prior attempts to bring the Northeast Line out past the Doraville station and into Gwinnett County have proven futile. Local politics won't allow it. And the wealthier residents in Lilburn, Lawrenceville, Duluth, Suwanee, and Snellville won't stand for it.

Cobb County
Same thing goes here. The wealthier residents of Marietta, Smyrna, etc won't want any further expansion at Dobbins. Dobbins' activity has been up slightly in recent years due to military commitments stemming from the War on Terror.

What makes Cobb even more of a long shot is that MARTA doesn't even have a rail line directly linking Cobb County with the rest of their network, thus they'd have to create an expansion line from either the Arts Center or Lindbergh Center stations. That would be a massive...lengthy...EXPENSIVE undertaking.

Dekalb County
There's not much room for expansion at PDK. Running major domestic carriers or even LCCs would require added maintenence and cargo facilities and PDK's space seems fairly limited. Once again, local politics comes into play here.

The best way to get a second airport servicing Atlanta is to get it WAY outside the metro area...and this is a catch-22 since the surrounding counties consistently fight the expansion of MARTA--with the only exception being Fulton County allowing it to be expanded to North Springs.

Once 10/28 is finished, the delays will lessen and talk of a second airport will slowly diminish.



[Edited 2004-10-19 03:30:04]
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:41 pm

The only talk in 2004 of a 2nd Atlanta airport, is on this website. When Newt Gingrich represented Cobb County, he had a "wet" dream to build a high speed train to CHA and make that a 2nd airport. There has been no talk about the subject since he resigned from the House in 1999. Actually, the only chance for commercial service outside of ATL is in AHN, because it currently has and has historically had scheduled service. The original Frontier attempted to start a low cost airline at Charlie Brown Fulton Co. Airport in the mid 80's but the opposition by Delta and Eastern and the city was so great, the idea soon died. All this talk about the South Side growing is also nonsense. Sure, Henry County is growing. The number of Red Necks in McDonough grows every year. But there are relatively few frequent flyers in Henry; and Fayette while home to many Delta pilots in Peachtree City, is not a bastion of Medallion Members either. There are no jobs down there, at least the kind that generate air traffic. Percentage wise, the growth may be high, but if a country grows from 50,000 to 100,000 in ten years, that is 100% growth, but Gwinnett and Cobb grow by that much every 2-3 years. The big growth is in Cherokee, and Forsyth.

Then there is a the racial issue. Okay, here it goes, PC is going out the window. The City of Atlanta is run by a Black Cabal. While there is growth in the white population through regentrification, Sam Massell was the last white mayor and he will remain so, at least in my life time. DeKalb County is majority African American. African American Candidates have defeated the long term incumbents in Clayton County in this election cycle. The Fulton County commission runs the county for the poor south end of Fulton and for the City of Atlanta, and uses the tax base in North Fulton to do it. It's just a reality of life. There is no way that majority would ever do anything to foster competition with their only cash cow, ATL Hartsfield JACKSON International Airport.

Atlanta Hartsfield JACKSON Airport is the life blood of the south side. Without it, the Southside would REALLY BE depressed. Ever driven down National Highway, Tara Blvd., Dixie Highway, Riverdale Road? Now compare those strips, and they all lead South from the airport, to Cobb Parkway, Peachtree Parkway, Medlock Bridge, and Barrett Parkway. Better yet, what surface street leads to the city from the Airport? Metropolitan Parkway, formerly Stewart Avenue. Now there is a street of (broken) dreams.

Go visit Shannon Mall or Southlake Mall! Remember Harry's Farmers Market and their go-go strategy. It died in Morrow, GA.

They didn't build the Mall of Georgia in Coweta County. So please, let's be real. I have lived in Atlanta for 20 years. Most people consider me politically pretty liberal, but I am a realist, and what is, IS. While a satellite airport at Briscoe Field, or PDK, or Dobbins might serve a very large suburban affluent community, those people DO NOT WANT A COMMERCIAL AIRPORT IN THEIR BACK YARD.

The Northern Arc is absolutely essential to Atlanta's long term growth, but Tom Knox from Cumming killed it along with a few groups of homeowners. The land the city owns in Dawson County goes up in value every day. I have no idea on the size of the acreage but its huge and at a current value of $20-30K an acre, the land is too valuable to be used for an airport. The other problem with that location is that there is no population north of there, it's the Appalachian Mountains. I live in North Fulton County. It's a 33 mile drive to Hartsfield. I am only about ten miles from MARTA and if the north south line is expanded up 400 to Roswell and Alpharetta, there will be direct train service to the present Airport. If the traffic at Hartsfield really increases greatly, they can accomodate it by replacing 50 seat RJ's with 150 Seat 737's. They don't need a new airport to do that.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: Second Airport In ATL

Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:10 pm

If the traffic at Hartsfield really increases greatly, they can accomodate it by replacing 50 seat RJ's with 150 Seat 737's. They don't need a new airport to do that.

Exactly. And, like I said earlier, once 10/28 opens this will be even more of a non-issue.

While a satellite airport at Briscoe Field, or PDK, or Dobbins might serve a very large suburban affluent community, those people DO NOT WANT A COMMERCIAL AIRPORT IN THEIR BACK YARD.M

Once again, exactly. Any second airport would have to be well outside the metro area for the people in Cobb, Gwinnett, and North Fulton not to bitch about it. These people control the majority of the wealth in the metro area...which translates into political power...which THEN translates into no expansion of MARTA and no second airport.

Atlanta Hartsfield JACKSON Airport...

 Smile That always strikes a chord with me. But don't worry, if Bill Campbell beats corruption charges then the Braves will be playing at Turner-Campbell Field.  Nuts
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Second Airport In ATL

Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:12 am

Milesrich hit it right on the head there, as a resident of the Southside (I've lived on the Southside from 1975-1986, and again from 1995-present. From July of 1986-June of 1995, I lived on the Northside of town in Gwinnett County.), I can vouch for much if not all of that post. The airport is the lifeblood for the southside's economy, as a majority of the airport's employees live on the southside, and it's always been that way, even back to the 1940s.

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