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favre
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NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:50 am

Replacement Decision on either A318 or E-190 by years end....
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FLAIRPORT
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:54 am

Keep your fingers crossed....

But, wait, do we really want that? I mean, what will happen to our NW DC9 threads?  Sad
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
panam330
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:00 am

Speculation, speculation, once again. Must we do this 2+ times a week  Big grin?!

Do you have a source, Favre? I mean, was it in the employee bulletin, or is this just a rumor within the company?

Either way, I hope it's for the A318/319 combo (as previously rumored). But whatever suits NW's need best, and keeps them profitable, I'm fine with  Smile.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:00 am

Whatever happened to the A380 and 7E7 being the replacement? I was looking forward to seeing the A380 being used on the DTW-FNT route.
 
BH346
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:05 am

While we do see a lot of speculation about Northwest's DC-9s around here, Favre is credible when it comes to things going on around NW. Also, keep in mind that the topic emphasizes that it's a rumor. For now we'll have to wait and see.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:06 am

Its not going to be the A318, because NW said they couldnt operate it because it gets somewhat poor economics and the fact its not exactly compatable with the gates at DTW, looks like the EMB!
 
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4everRC
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:06 am

I realize that most people on A.net demand to have a source before they believe anything, but I've never known Farve to spread unsubstantiated rumors.

I'm hoping for the E190 myself.
Nobody served our republic like Republic!
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:12 am

The best part about this, is they will be flown by MAINLINE PILOTS!!!!!!
 
JBLUA320
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:17 am

Ill also add that Farve has always had reliable information, and if I am not mistaken, works for NW??

JBLU
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:25 am

Well, favre is right most of the time. It would be interesting to see, but I am still highly skeptical. Granted, they could place the order say in December, and start taking deliveries during the 2007/2008 period.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:07 am

Well the new pilots contract mentioned the 70 seat issue, "NW pilots are in talks to opearate the near future order of 70 seat jets"
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:15 am

Hold on folks.....

No decision on the 70 seaters will be made this year, it will be Febuary 05 at the earliest. The sticking point is who will fly and/or operate them.

Thus, the 70 seaters fit right into the whole DC-9 replacement situation. The number or 70 seaters if/when/how dictates the number of larger aircraft that will also be needed. While things are in the work, a decision in the next 60 days pretty much isn't going to happen. Plus the pilot TA would need to ratified first.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:16 am

Favre is usually on the ball and correct. My money always has been and always will be on the E-190 or E-195.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:19 am

When I worked at DTW a few years back I spoke to a gate operator that works in the FIS section for Northwest. I asked him about the A318 and 717 back then (this was before the E190 rumors). He said that many at Northwest worried about A318 engine strikes with the gates. I am not sure what makes the gates at DTW that much different than elsewhere such as DEN which sees a lot of A318 action with Frontier.

I almost couldn't care which aircraft Northwest eventually replaces the DC-9 with since it would be great to see anything new in Northwest colors, although I am hoping for the 717 since it is an American plane and American workers need the jobs and a Northwest order would keep the 717 line open for years. I think if a big legacy like Northwest ordered the 717, then a couple other airlines once they get out of their financial crisis would follow suit such as AA and Delta.

Northwest if they were to order the 717 wouldnt probably take delivery until sometime in 2006-07, because remember they ordered the 753 and A333 back around 2000 and didnt take delivery until 2002/03 respectively. Northwest I am sure has enough money for a down payment on the aircraft and by the time it is time for delivery I think NW will have recovered financially.


If Northwest finds a DC-9 replacement by years end, don't worry, the what will be replacing the A320s and 757s thread is due to come up in a few years, and don't forget the Saab 340 replacement thread that should be due to come up soon
 
KarlB737
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:19 am

While you're on line can you give us an update on the rumor of FNT to LAS via NW A319?
 
BH346
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:40 am

If the DC-9 replacement is flown by mainline pilots, would there be a problem with Northwest ordering EMB-170/175s (as the 70-seater) later down the road if EMB-190s are ordered and flown by mainline pilots? Would they put EMB-170s in Airlink and -190s in mainline? (this is just hypothetical if they choose EMBs for both orders)
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
avek00
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:43 am

Even if NW does order a replacement for the DC-9s within the next 6-12 months, no one should expect to see the new planes coming onto the property until 2008-2009 at the earliest. NW will get every last cycle it can out of the DC-9s efore it replaces them with aircraft that have a lease/finance payment attached to them.
Live life to the fullest.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:47 am

No the EMB-170 which is 70 seats will be flown by NW pilots if management says yes, of course its going to be ratified by the pilots.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:55 am

Burnsie,

The 70 seater issue is seperate from the concessionary contact that is currently up for voting. Nowhere in the TA does it include provisions for relaxing the scope of the 70 seaters. There are some provisions concerning the 44 vs 50 seat CRJ's, allowing for more of the 44 seaters to become 50 seaters, and the provision that would allow a third airlink operator in the event of the collapse of another major.

There is a lot more to the 70 seat issue than just the pilots. The priority is to get the 70 seat isuue resolved which will then quickly lead to the whole DC-9 issue.

Yes Favre is usually a reliable source, but he even says this is just a rumor. And we all know how many rumors there are in this industry, and only about 1% end up being true. He's right on a lot of things, but there always are things that don't pan out. I've been wrong before too and heard many rumors that I thought were credible too. I'm just providing my speculation on what is a rumor, not fact.
 
NW7E7
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:00 am

I expect NW to get a very good deal if they go with the A318. Hopefully they will get the EMB-190.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:09 am

I couldnt imagine those gold mines disappearing from the fleet, but it would be nice to see them crank up a large order for 717,s if they are in fact going to replace them.....Heck they have enough old paid for 9,s to start a new lcc and could do some damage to some folks
i can see for 80 miles
 
Ezra
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:13 am

Can someone please explain the 318 engine strike issue at DTW.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:25 am

I am not sure if the engine strike issue is true or not at DTW. I am not aware of an A318 being tested at any DTW gates, but I had heard from reliable sources with NW at DTW that operate gates that the A318's engine is too close to the door where passengers load on or something. How much is DTW's gates different from those at Denver used by Frontier?
 
airxliban
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:33 am

i'm hoping for...

717

PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
sv11
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:44 am

How come the 717 is not part of the rumor. I guess its just a rumor.

sv11
 
EnviroTO
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:48 am

Everytime I hear about another E-190 order (or the possibility of one) I remember how ticked off I was when Bombardier didn't go ahead with the BRJ-X in 2000. What an egg on their face decision that was. If Bombardier launches a similar plane will there be many airlines left that haven't already decided what new aircraft they will use in the 70-120 passenger market?  Angry
 
N766UA
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:51 am

We have no good reason to believe this or any other rumor and it's totally unsubstantiated. So, besides paving the way for more speculation and rumors, where does this crap get us? I mean, I can make up anything I want regarding any airline but that doesn't make it post-worthy, even if it is classified as a rumor straight away.
 
NWA
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:01 am

Look at farves track record, and I am surprised anyone here does not go along with this. Thanks for the info farve. I was hopeing for a 717, but for NWA it would be to much to ask for I guess. I the 717 more economical than the 318 on certin routes, and what routes?
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:04 am

People its purely a RUMOR!!!!! Read the subject line.
 
nzblue
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:16 am

what will happen to our NW DC9 threads?
They've still got a hold on their DC-10's.  Big grin
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:35 am

What -xx model are their DC-9's? I saw quite a short one with Old Livery today @YYZ.... seemed like a 9-20?
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:30 am

MartinairYYZ, you probably saw a baby -10. There are only 8 or so in the fleet, and they should be gone by the end of the year.
 
avek00
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:51 am

All you guys (and gals) have to do is find NWA an acceptable credit rating and the necessary cash, and I'm sure the airline will order whatever DC-9 replacement you want...
Live life to the fullest.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:09 am

AVEk00.......If there is an airline with a proven track record, a credit rating that is acceptable with negotiable interest rates with the bank, and a good cash flow, it would be Northwest Airlines. Airlines like JetBlue and airTran would not be as good because they haven't been around as long as NW. NW would be considered in the banking world as a good risk. You cannot say that about most carriers. I believe the only firm exception is Southwest and perhaps Alaska. Northwest rates rather high with the banks and aircraft builders.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
avek00
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:35 am

"If there is an airline with a proven track record, a credit rating that is acceptable with negotiable interest rates with the bank, and a good cash flow, it would be Northwest Airlines. Airlines like JetBlue and airTran would not be as good because they haven't been around as long as NW. NW would be considered in the banking world as a good risk. You cannot say that about most carriers. I believe the only firm exception is Southwest and perhaps Alaska. Northwest rates rather high with the banks and aircraft builders.
safe."

Just for the heck of it, I decided to pull up the S&P credit ratings for Northwest, jetBlue, and AirTran:

Airline Rating/Outlook
Northwest Airlines Inc. B/Negative
JetBlue Airways Corp. BB-/Stable
AirTran Holdings Inc. B-/Negative

According to the highly respect S&P, Northwest has a credit rating superior to AirTran's but inferior to jetBlue's. This means that, all other things being equal, NW would be less likely to receive financing than jetBlue, or else would have to pay more for it. Of course, it should be kept in mind that all three carriers have a credit rating so poor as to be considered junk status.

[Edited 2004-11-01 00:37:53]

[Edited 2004-11-01 00:38:36]
Live life to the fullest.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:39 am

Just for grins, I'm gonna run this past my banker this week and get his two cents worth. He will make some calls to the city(NYC)...........stay tuned and keep smilin....
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
avek00
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:49 am

"Just for grins, I'm gonna run this past my banker this week and get his two cents worth. He will make some calls to the city(NYC)...........stay tuned and keep smilin...."

Go ahead - S&P is a highly respected tool used by bankers to determine the credit worthiness of large companies. In fact, most lenders write their financing/debt contracts to peg the interest rate, other fees, or debt maturity timelines associated with lending to the S&P credit rating maintained by the company - this is why many companies report increases in debt servicing costs following a decline in their credit rating, especially if the decline takes the company into junk status.

[Edited 2004-11-01 00:50:46]
Live life to the fullest.
 
airways6max
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:51 am

Probably the A318.

It would be nice if NW chose the 717. It would be a shot in the arm for the 717 with a NW order of say, 100 aircraft.
 
CO737800
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:57 am

Do you think NW might order the new Bombardier 100-110 seat aircraft.
 
planemaker
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:25 am

Everytime I hear about another E-190 order (or the possibility of one) I remember how ticked off I was when Bombardier didn't go ahead with the BRJ-X in 2000. What an egg on their face decision that was.

If you want to even more ticked off, go to p. 70 AW&ST Oct. 25 and take a look at the picture on the page.  Wink/being sarcastic

Do you think NW might order the new Bombardier 100-110 seat aircraft.

First BBD has to decide if they are going ahead with the program. Launch won't be decided until next year.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
NWADC9
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:59 am

For the last time, the DC-9 replacement will be more A320/19's and CRJ's for Pinnacle. This has been old news, and the only reason they have that old plane is because they're already paid in full, reliable (mechanics know so much about the plane more than 737 mechanics by expirience), and in great shape. Plus, they are great for the routes they fly on.

'Nuff Said.
I get paid to convert dead dino juice into noise.
 
nwa man
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 am

My personal opinion - I don't work for NW, as y'all know by now...


I'd be shocked if NW didn't go with the A318, for a number of reasons. First, when the decision was made to purchase new regional jets for Airlink, NW went with Bombardier, not Embraer. And while Northwest operates as varied a fleet as pretty much anyone, the commonality between the A318 and their 319/320 family reduces the expense of bringing a new fleet type into the arsenal.

Next, the A318 has much better range than the ERJ-190 (3900 vs 2200 nm). While both of these trump the DC-9 (and the 717 at 1,500nm, which I believe is why this aircraft is not in the picture), the A318 opens up more possible routes than does the 190, important as the new jet would greatly factor into NW's new focus on focus cities.

The DTW gate situation may be a hassle, but I wouldn't imagine it to be a stumbling block with the order, unless the issue is that NW can't park the A318 on the "odd side" of the WorldGateway. Jetways can be replaced at minimal cost compared with the price of an aircraft. Hell, I could see Airbus paying for the cost of jetway replacement at DTW to entice NW to purchase the 318.

Time will tell... we know this is going to get interesting.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
acidradio
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:56 pm

there is an airline with a proven track record, a credit rating that is acceptable with negotiable interest rates with the bank, and a good cash flow, it would be Northwest Airlines.

Doesn't the Canadian (and Brazilian) government back all these loans anyways?
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
airlinelover
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:35 pm

Whatever happened to the A380 and 7E7 being the replacement? I was looking forward to seeing the A380 being used on the DTW-FNT route.

You and me both!!! LOL

Nah, I'm still olding out hopes for the 717. If NW goes for the A318 or A319 or EMB 190, it would mean the pilots would lower themselves to a new level of low..  Big grin

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:17 pm

Nah, I'm still olding out hopes for the 717. If NW goes for the A318 or A319 or EMB 190, it would mean the pilots would lower themselves to a new level of low..

No, they will just quit before they fly any of those birds.  Insane

 
isitsafenow
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:47 pm

NWAMAN....range is not important with the niner replacement. As long as the company gets a max 1500 to 1800 miles from point A to point B, that's all they will care about. Both the A 318 and EM 190/195 can easily do that. The nine is doing much less than that on most routes today. FNT-FLL is of course and extreme exception.
NW does have some model 30's in the fleet with "aux. fuel tanks" according to the NWA fleet register they publish(or did).
Operating cost is where its at.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:57 pm

Whatever happened to the A380 and 7E7 being the replacement? I was looking forward to seeing the A380 being used on the DTW-FNT route.

Huh? NW said a long time ago that they would not consider the A380.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:14 am

NW should replace their DC9s w/ B717s. Boeing needs more 717 business BADLY. And I'm sure the 717 would be a smooth transition (and probably a welcome change for pilots) from the DC9.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2771
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:28 am

Range is not important with the niner replacement. As long as the company gets a max 1500 to 1800 miles from point A to point B, that's all they will care about.

Yes, if they use the new type as a one-for-one replacement on the existing DC-9 routes. However, with the E190 or A318, NW could "kill two birds with one stone," as they would be able to not only replace the -9s on shorter routes but also open new "long, thin" routes, like nonstops from DTW and MSP to various smaller cities on the west coast, not to mention longer flights from the "focus cities" at MKE and IND that don't quite need the capacity of an A319.

I would agree that NW probably has no need for the A318's range capability, since I don't anticipate NW starting any true coast-to-coast transcons in the near future, and at the same time it's a bit heavy for the shorter routes. The E190, however, could be a good compromise between efficiently replacing the -9s on short hops and opening up new route possibilities for NW.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
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RE: NWA DC-9 ** RUMOR**

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:34 am

FOXBRAVO...........said quite well....thankyouverymuch........
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.

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