US Agents May Strike Over Holidays

ATLhomeCMH · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:17 pm

This is from USA Today's "Today in the Sky" segment:

USAir facing agents' strike: The Communications Workers of America (CWA), a union of 6,000 gate and reservations agents, is balloting members to win approval for a strike if bankruptcy court allows the airline's management to nullify contracts. The proposed strike could hit over the holiday season, and airline officials are of course not happy. "The CWA's action to conduct a strike vote is irresponsible and misleading," spokesman David Castelveter tells the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Management says any such action would be illegal, but even the threat could send passengers elsewhere. "The act of a strike would result in an immediate shutdown of the airline," Chris Chiames, senior VP for corporate affairs, told the Web site justplanenews.com. This latest flap prompted Marick Masters, a University of Pittsburgh business professor, to forecast a critical point in the next few weeks. "Either the unions make concessions, or the airline is likely to liquidate in the near term." William Lauer of Allegheny Capital Management argues labor savings may be beside the point, with fuel prices and harsh competition apt to kill the carrier first. "All this hand-wringing over labor savings may be too little, too late." Management is demanding $650 million in concession from three unions by mid-month to complement the $300 million approved by pilots. Failing that, it will ask the court to impose new deals. Members of the CWA say that management's demand for a 34% cut leaves them little room to maneuver. "What incentive is there to vote for a contract that's going to put us out of work?" said Chris Fox, president of Local 13302 in Pittsburgh. Talks resume Thursday. Posted at 7:20 a.m. ET

Cutting 34% more pay from people who earn at the bottom of the pay scale already is not a good thing. All I can say is "yikes."

bobnwa · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:41 pm

I don't believe the CWA's claim that US airways is asking for a 34% CUT in pay. And why does ATLhomeCMH think these CWA workers are already at the bottom of the pay scale. Compared to who? Can you give us some figures?

jrlander · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:42 pm

Well... they can take a pay cut or they can take a pink slip. Life often presents two bad choices.

PhilSquares · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:51 pm

IIRC, the bankruptcy judge, in the 1115 hearing, authorized a 21% cut. US management was asking for 23% and the judge felt that was too much. So, now management is asking for an additional 15% on top of the judge's 21%. Something isn't quite right.

ATLhomeCMH · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:53 pm

I don't believe the CWA's claim that US airways is asking for a 34% CUT in pay.
Can YOU show us figures proving otherwise?

I highly doubt that the union of an airline on its last leg would threaten to strike during the holidays...a highly profitable time for air travel, mind you...if their claims or demands weren't serious enough to warrant it.

The real question should be: Is it smart? Smile

Compared to who?
Compared to the pilots, who have already taken a cut. Why would you think it would be any different for the agents?

Life often presents two bad choices.
Truer words were never spoken. I'd rather be getting a paycheck and make SOMETHING as opposed to...you know...NOTHING.

[Edited 2004-11-01 16:00:18]

zvezda · Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:58 pm

The portion of workers who elected these union bosses will have much to reflect on when they don't have jobs. I'm sorry for the workers who didn't vote for these union bosses.

bobnwa · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:17 am

My compared to who question had to do with CWA's claim to be at the bottom of the wage scale. Of course they make less than the pilots but are they at the bottom of the wage scale when comapred to other airlines or industries?

I can't prove something that didn't happen, so I can't prove US Air didn't ask for a 34% wage cut.

ATLhomeCMH · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:24 am

Of course they make less than the pilots but are they at the bottom of the wage scale when comapred to other airlines or industries?
Understood. Obviously. And that I don't know.

I was focusing specifically about w/in USAirways. Threats of a large paycut for those who earn on the tail end of the compay's pay scale, followed by a strike during the holidays would cease operations and pretty much kill US through the winter months.

isitsafenow · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:31 am

ATLhomeCMH...let me take your statement up a notch..

.."pretty much kill USAIRWAYs........like foreever..." A three day or more strike should shut the whole thing down for good. Thats three days of revenue they need thats not coming in and massive payouts to accomadate pax.
If they walk, don't bother to come back cause there won't be anything to comeback to except clean out all the lockers and toolbays of personal items.
safe

N6376M · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:34 am

Go ahead and let them strike. Ask the Eastern Airlines machinist how this worked out for them.

Outstanding union leadership if you ask me.

roseflyer · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:36 am

What are the actual wages that they are earning. Don't CS agents earn between 8-13$/hr? What is US Airways wages in comparison to other carrier? A 34% wage cut would be drastic. It would force them to minimum wage, and in some states that would be above the inflated minimum wages. This sounds like a strategy to use wage concessions to absorb the other costs associated with the airline. If they have to pay people fare below industry standard, then something else is wrong. I don't get it. This seems to be management doing anything they can to stop an already dead airline from dying.

Flaps · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:39 am

Dont be so quick to judge.

There are times in life when you have finally had enough and just wont take it anymore. These people have been through hell and back. To appreciate just how much hell you have to go back almost 20 years. Labor at US has taken a bad rap for far too long. Yes, there are bad apples among them but by and large they are among the best out there. They have given and given and given time and again only to see their sacrifices squandered by bad management. They have been cheated, lied to and disrespected. Even though I personally am strongly anti union I have to side with labor on this one. Many of the employees involved here will lose their jobs regardless. At least they have a chance to take a stand and maybe give some meaning to their demise. There are other carriers in bankruptcy and maybe the sacrifices and stance taken by the US workers will make other management teams take notice. There has been far too much abuse of the bankruptcy courts in the US airline industry. Just maybe some of these other management teams and labor groups will take notice and realize that they are in this together and take cooperative steps for each other before they too find it too late.

Sometimes you have to stand up for something or you end up falling for anything.

ATLhomeCMH · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:40 am

Isitsafenow:

.."pretty much kill USAIRWAYs........like foreever..." A three day or more strike should shut the whole thing down for good. Thats three days of revenue they need thats not coming in and massive payouts to accomadate pax. If they walk, don't bother to come back cause there won't be anything to comeback to except clean out all the lockers and toolbays of personal items.

Very true, however I choose to be cautiously optimistic. Smile

ClipperAurora · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:40 am

whoever said it is right! These Union bosses are horrible and can't look at the big picture......

Let me put it in plain english for those thinking to strike

"""""""""""LESS PAY.......STRIKE AND NO PAY NO AIRLINE NO JOB""""""""""""""

you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out! All this is doing is scaring our passengers to buy tickets on our airline...HELL keep it up and lose more money,,,,then you'll HAVE TO TAKE A 45% PAY CUT

GET WITH IT PEOPLE

nearord · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:48 am

Guys, its not the payrates they want to strike about. It's the outsourcing. If they impose the requested contract, most all of them will lose their jobs anyway. I think they realize that if they do, the airline will be gone, they are not that stupid. Either they vote for their jobs to be outsourced, or they have it imposed on them. either way they lose their job. Some would much rather the nightmare be over, rather than subject the remaining to the same over and over again. For most it's a choice of a 100% paycut, or a 100% paycut. The only thing they are deciding is whether to take the airline down with them.

AA717driver · Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:15 am

Nearord hit the nail on the head. Why work for 30% less only to buy time for the company to send your job to Express?

You want to do the agent's job for less than McDonald's pays?

I don't blame the CWA one bit. Good luck, all.TC

contrails · Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:44 am

Have these employees ever heard of the Rock Island Railroad? While in bankrupcty court one of the unions went on strike and the bankrupcty judge shut the company down.

This is not a well thought out idea. A job with reduced pay is a Lot better than no job at all. As long as they have jobs and the company is operating there is hope. If they're out of work there's not much, other than the local unemployment office, and I can say from bitter experience that there's not much hope there.

isitsafenow · Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:09 am

I'm an optimist too, but I am more a realist. There is a dif.

safe

wbmech · Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:19 am

With all the previous concessions as well as the ones being requested, yes 34% is a believable number. With court imposed concessions(to a contract that was agreed to by both parties), I believe the employees have every right to strike. It is a last ditch effort to save what self-respect they have left after the years of mis-management. These people put their trust in senior management only to face the reality of losing their jobs regardless of a strike or not. Their backs are to the wall and its time to fight, perhaps too little, too late.

searpqx · Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:42 am

I come from a strong management background and have no love for unions, but this time around I have no trouble seeing where the CWA is coming from. Sometimes you reach a point where enough is enough and you just have to stand up for yourself. I don't think anyone is operating under any illusions that US will survive a strike. But to make it totally legit, the CWA needs to admit that. The ballot should read something like, "This strike is not about protecting your current pay. It is about your worth as an employee. If you vote yes and a strike occurs, US Airways will shut down and you will be unemployed. If you vote no and there is no strike, you MAY continue to have a job, with a pay reduction of somewhere between 21% and 34% percent."

I hope this all gets worked out and US survives, but if not, I support those that choose to go out on strike. Sometimes your dignity and self respect mean more than a paycheck.

Good luck to all involved
Duane

ATLhomeCMH · Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:11 am

I'm an optimist too, but I am more a realist. There is a dif.
True, but you can be an optimist in lieu of the eventual reality.

I'm at the point w/ US where I'm just like, "Just end it already and spare the people the ongoing torture."

EA CO AS · Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:35 am

I'm at the point w/ US where I'm just like, "Just end it already and spare the people the ongoing torture."

Sadly, more and more people share that point of view - myself included.

The fact is that unfortunately, US simply doesn't have a viable business anymore.

SHUPirate1 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:46 am

Couldn't President George W. Bush declare a "cooling-off" period, like President William J. Clinton did with American's pilots a few years back (if I recall correctly, President's Day Weekend 1997)

supa7E7 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:59 am

ATL and EA, keep in mind that if you decide to quit, thousands of people will line up to take your jobs. Gladly. With joy. Think about that. You may be tired of it. Why not let some new people have a go at it?

EA CO AS · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:04 am

ATL and EA, keep in mind that if you decide to quit, thousands of people will line up to take your jobs. Gladly. With joy. Think about that. You may be tired of it. Why not let some new people have a go at it?

You make the mistake of assuming that US will actually be around to provide said jobs, though. Big grin

deltaflyertoo · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:10 am

Supa7E7:

I think what ATL and EA are implying is that its just a total nightmare that has gone from bad to worse for these eimployees. They never said anyone was tired of their jobs...these employees are tired of that not knowing game that the airline is dragging out. Should they look for another job? Should they stay? Now US says they can cut costs more and be around longer, then next day they are telling WSJ that isn't so and they are only going to get by through winter... AND, now this? I'm reading the other posters descriptions of job outsourcing, more layoffs, or paycuts. Enough is enough. Getting a new job is never easy, I'm sure these employees are all in limbo and don't know which road to take. However like I said before at the end of the day, its that not knowing feeling that is the worst. If they strike and they shut the airline down, at least they can have peace of mind at the final outcome. If they don't strike, its another agonizing winter of watching mgmt play the press w/ games of we are fine, we aren't, we are fine, oh no we arent.

I'm sure some of these employees HAVE thought of going across the airport, risking job cuts and applying to Air Tran, Southwest, JEtblue and even the legacies. Then their CEO stands up and says US will be a lCC that will aggresively compete with Air Tran and Jetblue, then turn around and say it won't make it through winter.

It is all BS at this point. I wish the employees well. Whatever they decide to do I hope is for the best. Noone can know what it is like unless you've been there.

avek00 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:12 am

"Couldn't President George W. Bush declare a "cooling-off" period, like President William J. Clinton did with American's pilots a few years back (if I recall correctly, President's Day Weekend 1997)"

The contract abrogation and subsequent imposition of new terms constitute a major breach of contract under the labor laws, allowing an immediate right to strike that cannot be halted by anyone, including the BK Judge or POTUS.

supa7E7 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:14 am

It does hurt for the US employees. However, they are luckier than many -- if not most -- Americans, all things considered. I feel sorry for kids in Africa, the unemployed, and those in ill health, but not US employees so much.

Threatening to strike is not honorable, now or ever. This is not some injustice foisted on workers by Scrooge McDuck. It's a company that can't pay so high anymore.

boeingpride800 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 am

If you ask me, I honestly don't care. I wouldn't fly US Airways anyway, I get free flights on NW. And I wouldn't fly them even if I didn't work in the airline industry, I would fly jetBlue. And US Airways is in a bad enough positions as it is.

bullpitt · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:26 am

To those people who think a pay cut is better than not having a job, well NO it's not. If the company has to close, well let it close and get those useless managers fired. But the workers should not have to sacrifice themselves for them. They have more to loose, after all, low paid jobs are easily available let those useless managers try to find the same job. Slavery was outlawed after the civil war, although it seems some people still think they can tread all over the working class.

ScottB · Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:43 am

It appears that yes, many of US's gate and reservations agents would take a pay cut of 34% or more. Topped-out pay before the 21% reductions appeared to be $20.05/hour. The company's proposal for a topped out reservations agent would reduce them 32% to $13.62/hour given that they will be dropped four steps on the pay scale in addition to the proposed hourly wage cuts. It's also likely that most stations (aside from the hubs and focus cities) would become "Mainline Express" under the contract proposal (given the language), where pay tops out at $12.65/hour -- a pay cut of 37%. But to add insult to injury, they'd be dropped two steps from the top of the Mainline Express scale (to $10.51/hour) for a pay cut of nearly 48%. Shift premiums and customer contact premiums would also be gone, and to make things even more fun, health insurance premiums go up! Plus fewer holidays and less vacation. And there's something in it for past furloughees, too -- if they come back, they come back at the bottom step of the pay scale ($9.00/hour).

Oh yeah, and management wants a contract that runs through December 31, 2011. It seems quite clear to me that management wants the company to survive only if they can manage to bust the unions in the process (and thus, ensure huge profits through 2013 or 2014, given the inevitable foot-dragging by the company when the contracts become amendable).

usdcaguy · Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:44 am

A strike at US Airways would be vain and indulgent and would hurt all workers at the company. Everyone from the fleet service clerks to the pilots would be watching the last few dollars trickle out the door while they wonder where in the world they will find another job. I feel for the agents, I really do; I wish things were different, that not so many mistakes had been made in the past when negotiating labor agreements and that fare levels were high enough to ensure everyone a good living. The problem is, however, that we cannot blame current management. Everyone with a brain has left/is trying to leave US Airways, and those brave enough to remain are seeing their own salaries fall while their peers in the area make a very good living. It is nobody's fault; it is the competitive nature of the industry that has pushed fares into the gutter. The only thing US Airways can do now is conserve cash and find new sources of income. And yes, this includes massive, bloody pay cuts where everyone is given a trailer in which to live and a few days a year to be sick.

If you think US Airways will see good times soon, think again. Only with painful sacrifice, time and higher ticket prices will a transformed company come to fruition.

ShortsFA · Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:46 am

Thanks flaps, I work for Us Airways and have for over 12years. I'm a CWAer and feel we just can't take it anymore. The mismanagement for just about all 12years I've been with the company and the endless request for give backs , [which actually started in the 90's] has got to stop. If I'm out of a job by the first of the year so be it. At least I was the one to make that decision for myself. As for other Reps who do support the management and would lose their job also, so be it. They bitch more about what is happening than those who don't support management. I believe the cuts should start at the top and come down management is robbing us of our livelihood. They are not taking the cuts we are taking and they really need to step up to the plate and show us they really want to keep this airline in business. They need to be replaced with a few select people who will not take are money and pad their pockets. Such as are retired pilot group. They also will need to trim management by 50% WHAT COMPANY NEEDS 29 VICE PRESIDENTS. Completely mismanaged.

usdcaguy · Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:55 am

Line their pockets, Shortsfa? A friend of mine is a member of management, has been to college and makes $8K less a year than the average customer service agent (about $16.00/hr compared to $20/hr plus overtime). How much did YOU invest in YOUR education, and how much do YOU owe in student loans?

ShortsFA · Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:27 am

Your friend is just like the rest of us at Us Airways and is not truly in the management group I speak of [VP'S, ATO managers]. The majority of us at Us Airways have been to college and have degrees in various areas from Business, avionics, healthcare and so on. I find your words to be indignant and implying that myself and my coworkers are uneducated and not able to make decisions without people like you, who have no idea what we have been through. How much did YOU invest in YOUR education. Tell your highly educated friend to hit the pavement and start looking for a better job if he's having difficulty paying for HIS education. In regards to our high fares YOU stated earlier they have lined the pockets of Stephen, Ragash, Dave and Neil. We could have cut are fares as low as Southwest Airtran and ATA. We would have produced high load factors filling aircraft and making money. The problem is the GREAT management at the helm. We CWAer's make an average of $5,000 less in pay and benefits that the same Rep as WN. People also need to stop comparing us to Airtran and Jetblue The junior boys and girls on the block. So bottom line if you aren't close to the situation and not flying us on a regular basis you really don't know what is going on.

AA717driver · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:25 pm

ScottB--Thanks for filling in the details. What a $h!t sandwich! I tell you what, after reading that, I'll come walk the picket line with you.TC

ATLhomeCMH · Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:18 pm

Deltaflyertoo:

I think what ATL and EA are implying is that its just a total nightmare that has gone from bad to worse for these eimployees. They never said anyone was tired of their jobs...these employees are tired of that not knowing game that the airline is dragging out. Should they look for another job? Should they stay?

Thanks, that pretty much sums it up. I'm glad someone actually read the little exchange between EA and I before jumping to conclusions.

If I were a US employee, I would have already been searching for a job for a while. Loyalty to a company or an industry is secondary to putting your family through hell with this back and forth bullsh*t...it's not worth it.

The bottom line reality is that if they strike, they're DONE. Yet, I'll still choose to be cautiously optimistic. Smile

Azul320 · Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:14 pm

I would be careful reading what comes from the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, maybe too biased. PIT was a city that was once the heart of a major airline, now it has been shafted so hard by cuts after cuts because it's not productive for the airline. Those are the most extremist folks who feel betrayed and may be the ones willing to strike and take down the airline, because there is nothing more to lose, all has been lost there.

NWFltAttendant · Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:00 pm

If I were at US id be polishing my resume and interviewing skills. The end is near, PERIOD. Its unfortunate and it doesnt seem that anything is going right over there at US.

bennett123 · Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:53 am

Having been made redundant several times, a company which is "going down" often has a smell of death about it.

At that point, the only sensible thing to do is update your C.V. and get out.

A lot of the comments here suggest that US has reached that point.

Clearly some people are tied to the company for a variety of reasons, personal, seniority etc. Unless I was in one of those groups, I would get
out now before there is a rush for the doors.

I do not know how transferable Pensions are in the US, but if possible I would move my pension as well.

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