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FA4UA
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UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:23 am

Last week Senior VP of Onboard Service was in LHR meeting in town hall meetings with crews. During these meetings she said in the next year we shall see service beginning to 10 NEW cities that UA has never served before. One can only speculate where.... very exciting news though!

On a different note, our LHR Onboard safety team has been talking about a possible deal with Airbus for UA to acquire A340's in exchange for exit financing from Bankruptcy. The rumor is that UA would get the A340's to replace the 744's and grow our fleet to operate the 10 new cities mentioned above. Additionally it is rumored that UA will not have to pay until two years after delivery for anything to buy us time to get back on our feet.

This same onboard safety training team was correct on a number of other rumours including the new PS service in our Premium Transcon markets within the US.

FA4UA
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
 
SFORunner
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:41 am


Are all of the "10 new cities" ones not yet announced? We've got the following starting up in the next 12 months:

1) Guangzhou (subject to approval)
2) Nagoya
3) Ixtapa (?)
4) Ho Chi Minh City

....what's missing from this list?
 
KA501
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:46 am

What about ORD,LAS, & IAD to MAN replacing BMI if the LHR to India routes come off?
 
A319114
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:47 am

a340s.. Sounds too good to be true  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Maybe UA will add some European cities too (Manchester, Edinburgh, Copenhagen, Stockholm)?
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
DLKAPA
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:52 am

Even though this sounds really cool (I'd love to photograph a UA A345/6 in the new colors as I assume that's what it would be), I really need a source to back this one up. In other words, I'm holding my breath until I see it take off from O'hare.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
jasepl
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:20 am

I have a feeling many of these will turn out to be Mexican / Caribbean destinations.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:35 am

The rumor is that UA would get the A340's to replace the 744's

Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sad Airbus is JUNK!!! But if they're the ones writing the check to ensure UA's survival, and Boeing isn't willing to do a thing, then I guess UA can't really be choosy about what they fly. Sad, very sad.

10 new cities will be nice.

How about PDX or SEA to SXF or MUC!!  Laugh out loud I'm kidding...that won't ever happen.

Who wants to start the guessing on the 10 new cities? I would say 5 in Europe, 5 in Asia.

Europe:
Rome
Warsaw
Prague
Vienna
Copenhagen or Stockholm

Asia:
Kuala Lumpur
Cities in Japan or China, not sure which
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:47 am


The airbus rumor has been flying around for at least a year now. They want UA to dump all Boeing products and be a complete airbus operator for preferential financing. I think the chances are very slim on this unless they were some how able to do that and guarantee UA fuel hedged at $27 a barrel or something else irresistible. Would be interesting, but in the end...unlikely.

My guesses on new city's.

WAW
SVO
CPH (as a actual UA flight)
MAD
TXL
LIS
JNB


-m


 Big thumbs up

 
JoKeR
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:53 am

Could Dubai be one of them?
 
MANmatt
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:21 am

Come on, MAN has to be one! Id love to see UA metal in MAN for real one day, that would be cool! One can only dream until this time comes around though!

MANmatt
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:22 am

UnitedTristar: UA used to serve both MAD and TXL in the '90s. I would love to see UA fly into TXL or SXF, but I'm not sure if the economics would work for them, given their alliance with LH, and that CO and DL are going to start flying there as well.

I would think Capetown before Jo'Burg.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:32 am

>On a different note, our LHR Onboard safety team has been talking about a possible deal with Airbus for UA to acquire A340's in exchange for exit financing from Bankruptcy. The rumor is that UA would get the A340's to replace the 744's and grow our fleet to operate the 10 new cities mentioned above. Additionally it is rumored that UA will not have to pay until two years after delivery for anything to buy us time to get back on our feet.<

Right, replace 744s that are paid for with planes that they will eventually have to pay through the nose for, even if it is in 2 years. Also, drop capacity on routes where UA fills planes, which is exactly what the 747 routes are, sounds really smart to me.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:39 am

UAL is shrinking it's widebody fleet not growing it, Im willing to bet dollars to donuts that were talking lots of Carribean and Mexican destinations here.

UAL will retire it's entire 747-400 fleet and concentrate soley on 777-200s (some of which are still parked) before they would add yet another type to their fleet.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:44 am

>UAL is shrinking it's widebody fleet not growing it, Im willing to bet dollars to donuts that were talking lots of Carribean and Mexican destinations here.

UAL will retire it's entire 747-400 fleet and concentrate soley on 777-200s (some of which are still parked) before they would add yet another type to their fleet.<

Actually, they are getting rid of some 777s and replacing them with 744s. AI are getting some, RG got some, and AM is rumored to be getting a couple. The 744s are already on SFO-LHR, IAD-FRA and IAD-LHR, all previously 777s. Also, A340s to Australia would mean lower profits on every flight, as they go out full. Would also mean lower profifts per passenger, ad the 744 has lower seat-mile
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
avek00
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:52 am

There's no way that UA is dumping the 744s for A340s - while UA could ostensibly dump its 777s for 340s, the transition costs alone would suck the economical viability out of any such deal.
Live life to the fullest.
 
klwright69
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:56 am

I can't see UA going to LIS or WAW anytime soon. LIS is a tiny market. It should say something that CO hasn't started EWR-WAW yet, since they're have trying to grab everything they can European from EWR.

Will the US Isreal bilateral allow ORD-TLV?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:00 am

On a different note, our LHR Onboard safety team has been talking about a possible deal with Airbus for UA to acquire A340's in exchange for exit financing from Bankruptcy. The rumor is that UA would get the A340's to replace the 744's and grow our fleet to operate the 10 new cities mentioned above.

That idea is nothing less than stupid. If Airbus wants to help UA... they should extend them A319/A320/A321 so they can eliminate the 733/735. UA needs to simplify their fleet rather than complicate it. The 777 fleet is about as efficient as money can buy, that can't be said for their 733/735 fleet....

If they want to expand internationally to new destinations... it should be done with 752/763ER a la Continental. Outfit the 757s with winglets and the PS cabins, retire any remaining 762s (are there any left?), and move A320/A321 into the 757s spot.

Actually, they are getting rid of some 777s and replacing them with 744s. AI are getting some, RG got some, and AM is rumored to be getting a couple.

They are being leased out until UA can take them back. The 744 have lower lease rates than the 772ER, so UA returned them to the lessors temporarily. UA still has 50+ 772/772ER in daily operation.

Also, A340s to Australia would mean lower profits on every flight, as they go out full

That's false... smaller aircraft can often make greater profits than their larger counterparts. An aircraft like the 744 flies with a large number of non-revenue passengers flying on frequent flier miles, ect. A smaller aircraft like the 772ER/773ER doesn't have these extra seats, and fills them with revenue paying customers only. The 777 also has lower landing fees, less maintenance, greater cargo capability, and more efficient operations than a 744....
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
laca773
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:50 am

I think simplification of their narrowbody fleet would be for the better. Dump those old 733s/735s [are they completely gone now] and aquire more A319s to replace the 733s and A318s to replace the 735s. I don't think the 321 out performs the 757 for what they need it for...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:52 am

Dump those old 733s/735s [are they completely gone now] and aquire more A319s to replace the 733s and A318s to replace the 735s. I don't think the 321 out performs the 757 for what they need it for...

They are no where close to being gone. And it would probably be more efficent to replace the 735 with A319 anyway. And, for all but the PS transcons... the A321 could do a good portion of their 752 duty.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:04 am

The 744s are not all paid for, they just have better lease rates.

I assign a zero percent chance of UA picking up A340s, or that Airbus would forego 2 years of payments. This rumor smacks of bullshit.

I'm not real sure the 757 is as handy for UA as it is for CO on International services. IAD is a little further away, and I don't know if that extra 200 nm will really make a difference to the profitability of the route. If it doesn't, they should indeed pursue it.

I agree that the 321 would do just fine to fill in for the 75 on many of their short-haul high density routes.

Airbus is JUNK!!!

Ugh. Please keep the childish crap to yourself. Other than your post, this has been a great thread.

777 also has lower landing fees, less maintenance, greater cargo capability, and more efficient operations than a 744....

It doesn't have greater cargo capability, or less maintenance, and "more efficient operations" is subjective. The 744 still has the lowest seat costs of any airplane flying.

N

[Edited 2004-11-14 01:10:45]
 
Carpethead
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:06 am

A bankrupt carrier taking on more debt, that makes really good economic sense unless Airbus is giving airplanes for free. Where did this management fella get his/her degree from 'BS-r-us'. It's not like the 777 nor 744 are 20 years old and need of replacement soon.

As for 10 new cities next year, many could be seasonal flights into the Caribbean or Mexico.

Confirmed is only Nagoya for but Guangzhou is pending.
Ho Chi Minh started this year so is already out.
Probably the remainder will be new cities in Europe such as maybe taking over bmi flying from IAD & ORD into MAN so bmi can fly elsewhere. Other possibles are as mentioned WAW, LIS & MAD since LOT, TAP and Spanair are or will be Star Members.
 
beeweel15
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:08 am

" The 777 also has lower landing fees, less maintenance, greater cargo capability, and more efficient operations than a 744...."

The 777 does not carry more cargo than the 747-400. Please check your information again. I spoke with someone from UAL at JFK airport and they said that they lost cargo revenue from switching from the 744 to the 777 on the JFK-NRT-HKG route.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:18 am

United getting A340s..............HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Thanks for the laugh!  Big grin
 
mav75
Posts: 172
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:33 am

That's all UA needs is yet another fleet type. Way to streamline. Not only that, but does the A-340 in any configuration have the range to reach the Pacific Rim or Australia from the West Coast with the payload that the 777 or definitely the 744 can offer? I doubt it, but I never bothered to research the Airbus product.

What kind of miracle financing is Airbus offering to United to make this even remotely financially sound? It sounds like an Airbus aircraft is getting easier to buy than a used car. Not to mention the disadvantage United would be under to take advantage of this seemingly too good to be true offer. If I bought a car and the manufacturer agreed to pay me a certain amount of money per year, I don't want them telling me how to spend it. It sounds like a barely legal monopoly, or better yet taking money from Don Corleone and owing him a favor for the rest of your life.

If this rumor is true, I'd like to see Airbus's methods of securing orders start getting a lot more scrutiny than they are at this time. Not only that, but whatever they are getting away with should also be applied to Boeing. Wouldn't it be nice if our government subsidized Boeing like Airbus gets carried by who knows how many European countries.

It's a funny coincidence that so many domestic carriers are using the Airbus to replace their Boeings (NWA with the 757 and the DC-10) and other newer carriers are buying the A-320 like it's going out of style (Independence, Spirit, jetBlue). I wonder what kind of miracle financing Airbus is offering, and if they are offering any other kinds of **ahem** incentives. Lockheed tried the same thing with the L-1011 for international orders and got caught red handed.

All good things must come to an end.

If it ain't Boeing, it ain't going.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:36 am

God, another bullshit post.

People buy the A320 because its a great plane. Airbus receives launch aid, not full financial life support.

There are no "incentives" making UA and NW buy their planes.

Every time Airbus sells a plane, some idiot makes a post saying "they must have given it away for free".

N
 
hoya
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:38 am

Doesn't UA still have a ton of A320s and A319s on order? Maybe the no payment plan could apply to those planes. Please correct me if I am wrong about the Airbus orders.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:38 am

United give up its 55+ 777s (which they love by the way) and its all important 744s (30 of 'em) for A340s, no way. UA and the 777 are like bread and butter- they are the launch customer of the line and own a lot of them, even though some are in storage. They have put a TON of money into them to deck them out with IFEs, chaning cabin configurations for their Hawaii/Domestic flights, and not to mention certifying some as ERs for flights over 5000 miles. I don't think UA will ever own big airbuses. If anything, they'll keep the Big boeings, and replace the babys with airbuses. The 319/320 is one of the most fuel efficent a/c in the fleet, plus they own over a hundred of them. Clearly, these are going to replace alot of the 737s, but I can happily say, the 777 and 744 are here to stay.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:39 am

Every time Airbus sells a plane, some idiot makes a post saying "they must have given it away for free".

And every time Boeing sells a plane, some idiot makes a post saying "Hey, Boeing sold a plane!" Big grin

[Edited 2004-11-14 01:39:49]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:42 am

I'm not real sure the 757 is as handy for UA as it is for CO on International services. IAD is a little further away, and I don't know if that extra 200 nm will really make a difference to the profitability of the route. If it doesn't, they should indeed pursue it.

I assume the PS cabins probably add a good deal of weight to the aircraft. Premium seats usually weight a ton.... so the winglets would probably only offset the range lost to the new ammenities.

Still... the 752 has the legs to do some light European duty out of ORD-

I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
SNATH
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:44 am

I'm no fan of the A340 (give me a B767 over it any day). However I would love for
the "A340s for UA" rumour to be true. The reason is simple. Can you imagine the
US government's case against Airbus at the WTO, while Airbus is in the process of
giving serious help to the UA? It would be hilarious.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

(I'm surprised nobody already mentioned this...)

Tony

[Edited 2004-11-14 01:52:59]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:01 am

What about ORD-BOG with 757??? Its a market that is unexploited, many Colombians live in the Chicago area...though it would be given to AA if they also applied.
 
moose1226
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:02 am

Here is the above map for IAD:

 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:42 am

UA cant trade the 747 for the A340. How would they continue their SYD run?? Also they would be loosing a lot of seats and why would they want to do that?? I think this would be a move that would finally put UA into bankruptsy again if not chapter 7 ultimately.
 
United Airline
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:06 am

UAL will retire it's entire 747-400 fleet and concentrate soley on 777-200s (some of which are still parked) before they would add yet another type to their fleet.

UAL is placing more and more B 747-400s back into service.

Concentrate solely on B 777-200s? And no B 747-400s? Come on! Gimme a break! The B 747-400s are CASH COWS for MANY routes such as HKG-ORD, HKG-SFO, SYD-SFO, SYD-LAX. If they can fill them up, why replace them with something smaller and make less money on these routes? Besides they are all very new still.
 
NWAFA
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:48 am

Gosh isn't it nice that UA is going to do all this, but they can not file an exit plan from bankruptcy. They can add all these "frills" yet they take pensions away from the hard working dedicated employees.

Sheesh, this company does not deserve to live!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
RyanAFAMSP
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:53 am

I am really skeptical of all of this information. I mean yes it would go along with the strategy of the legacy carriers to dump capacity into international because of the low yields in domestic. But as CO, DL, AA, and NW all dump more seats into a multiplicity of international markets, yields will head south just like they did in domestic. The industry is still suffering from chronic overcapacity, and the last think it needs is everyone dropping in on CAN, NGO, PVG, or wherever the latest "must-have" market is.

I would read between the lines on this one. The Senior VP of onboard was having face time with all the LHR crews on the day in question. The company is in the middle of trying to ram another round of concessions through the bankruptcy court, a round that will among other things terminate the pension fund, destroy the remaining work rules and duty rigs, slash sick pay, and make medical coverage even more expensive. It is great to talk about exotic new points of call while you're making the people in your division fly immensely more difficult schedules for far less pay.
 
United Airline
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:57 am

UA is different from CO, AA, DL etc. They need the B 747.

Besides why order the A 340 while they have a large B 777 fleet?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:58 am

No offence but is that some sort of joke? To replace the 747-400 fleet with A340's? What about the 777's? May aswell replace them with A330's then!

UA would never merge from anything then, not even their own grave site.

IF and thats IF UA replaced the 747-400 fleet which they won't because they can't afford to the 773ER would be the most logical.

Guess atleast Airbus who I guess would take the 744's wouldn't have to much trouble disposing of the 744's.

An A340 should be able to do LAX-SYD no problem I'd have thought.
 
trijetfan1
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:23 pm

IM 100% surprised that UA never served MAD.......You sure about this one?
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:22 pm

IM 100% surprised that UA never served MAD.......You sure about this one?

I am! UA flew the route, IAD-MAD using 767-300 aircraft in the early '90's. Flight #910/911, as a matter of fact.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:25 pm

Not just the early 90s. They served Madrid in the late 90s as well.

N
 
ba319-131
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:32 pm

Whilst i'd dearly love to see an A340(would prefer the 346) in UA c/s,this all sounds like bullshit as Gigneil said.

UA are not going to increase aircraft types by adding the 340 to the fleet mix.

Airbus cannot afford to GIVE UA aircraft for free for 2 years,they have far too many programs going on,they need money rolling in to pay for R&D etc.

I'd love to be wrong and see a 340 @LHR,but hey,I doubt it.
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
JoFMO
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:57 pm

The original comment from FA4UA doesn't exclude the USA, but is there any city which was never served by united?
But it's often difficult with this vocal statements and I suspect that they meant new destination, what could also be a reintroduced one. And if we also include already announced new destinations, then there is not much left.

Has anyone enough info to list all new destinations for next year?

NGO, SGN ...
 
ORD2PHL
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:09 pm

NWAFA:

The thread starter 'rumor' indicated that such a plan would include exit financing from Airbus.

....a possible deal with Airbus for UA to acquire A340's in exchange for exit financing from Bankruptcy
 
kaitak
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:27 pm

What was it that one of the characters from Popeye (Wimpy?) used to say: a hamburger today for a dime tomorrow?

Unfortunately, as has been said, United is not in a good position, but even despite the oil price crisis, Asian economies are improving and an airline like UAL needs to get into that market and develop it. Are 747-400s the best way to do this? Although I am also very skeptical about the concept of UAL replacing 744s with A340s (particularly when they already have 777s), I have to say that Airbus may hold some of the cards here. If they want help exiting bankruptcy (will they ever get that far?) then they may have to follow Airbus's wishes, BUT on the other hand, given the experience Airbus is soon to face with US Airways (lots of nearly new A319/320/330s on the market), does Airbus really want to expose itself to the potential failure of another US carrier AND if they do take on UAL 744s, who's going to want them? Even when UAL wanted to sell them, there weren't too many takers.

 
N1120A
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RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:42 pm

>Every time Airbus sells a plane, some idiot makes a post saying "they must have given it away for free"<

Every time Boeing sells a plane, someone screams political pressure or "they have an exclusitivity agreement" or "damn those stinking unions". I cannot stand the corporate welfare that goes on, whether it is Boeing getting paid way, way too much on unnecessary US military contracts that take away from schools, roads, health care, etc. or that Airbus gets handed cash to launch a plane from the German, French, Spanish and UK governments. Both are a joke. The only difference is that with the Airbus corporate welfare plan, they can cover up losses better because they only (right now) make commercial airplanes, meaning that anything on their balance sheet is there for commercial planes. Boeing, however, has to account for all of its divisions and cannot cover up losses at commercial that easily with money from their bloated US military contracts. Hence, Boeing has to be much more careful with what it sells every single plane for. Of course Airbus does not lose money on or give away every plane, but they can more easily lose a little on a "foot in the door" deal and cover it up with launch aid money. I know that wont bring an end to the war, but I hope that got some people thinking.

Oh, as far as who would take UA's 744s, there are several airlines on the market for used 744s (including NW who would specifically want the PW engines that UA has, Corsair and Thai). I could even see Airbus selling the 744s to NW as an extension of existing deals. UA even made a deal to sell 9-10 744s to TG for around 350 million USD, but the deal fell through when the UA BK court nixed it. UA then found it would be more economical to fly the 744s than some of the high lease rate 777s, especially on routes that have very high demand.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2639
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:14 pm

I am totally amazed how rediculous some of you guys are here.

Now the A340 plan may seem a bit extreme but some things need to be clarified.

Firstly an A340 could easily make SYD-LAX

Infact an A340 can fly MEL-LAX, which was extremely weight restricted when UAL used to do it with the 744.

Infact the A340 as significantly longer range than the 744.

If, the key word being IF, UA was to go down this road, it would no doubt be with the A340-600.

This by far makes the most sense as 777 flights to Sydney, would be ETOPS restricted. This doesnt mean that they can't do it, but it does mean that they have to fly a significantly longer route, and couldn't take the most direct routing they currently do with the 744.
This means longer flight times, higher fuel burn and in turn greater weight restritions so less cargo.

The real advantage to replacing 744s with A340-600s would lie in the ability for UA to Sell its 744s and raise much needed cash, whilest most likely having backloaded lease payments the way Jetblue would with their A320s. UA have a history of doeing this a little differently to serve a purpose in a bit of a tight situation. After all, doesn't everybody remember the Caraville and why it went into service at UA (if you dont know what the Caraville is i suggest you go and look it up and do some reading before you reply to this post)
 
N1120A
Posts: 26612
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:38 pm

>I am totally amazed how rediculous some of you guys are here.<

You are amazed at this?

>Firstly an A340 could easily make SYD-LAX<

Which A340?

>Infact an A340 can fly MEL-LAX, which was extremely weight restricted when UAL used to do it with the 744.<

Again, which A340? Extremely is not the word. Slightly would be, and not on all days.

>Infact the A340 as significantly longer range than the 744.<

Same question, third time, which A340? I would not call less than 500 nm (A346) significant, especially on a plane that has not performed well on the shorter LAX-HKG route.

>If, the key word being IF, UA was to go down this road, it would no doubt be with the A340-600.<

Right, a plane that would hold about 270-285 in UA's configuration, replacing one with 347. And at a higher cost per passenger

>This by far makes the most sense as 777 flights to Sydney, would be ETOPS restricted. This doesnt mean that they can't do it, but it does mean that they have to fly a significantly longer route, and couldn't take the most direct routing they currently do with the 744.
This means longer flight times, higher fuel burn and in turn greater weight restritions so less cargo.<

If you look at the great circle mapper, even with 180 ETOPS (207 is currently allowed as an extension and Boeing almost has fully approval for 330 ETOPS) the 777 does not run into problems on the way to SYD.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=SYD-LAX&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=nm&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180

>The real advantage to replacing 744s with A340-600s would lie in the ability for UA to Sell its 744s and raise much needed cash, whilest most likely having backloaded lease payments the way Jetblue would with their A320s.<

Um, B6 own most of their planes and the main issue is with supposedly back-loaded financing payment. Also, even though they could do it, it takes a while to move that many 747s. If UA ended up with this kind of backloaded scheme, with a much more expensive plane, they would likely end up in a second bankruptcy.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:46 pm

1) There are no payload restrictions on the MEL-LAX segment for UA with the PW powered 400s.

2) There is a payload restriction on the LAX-SYD segment when an alternate is required. (UA PW powered 400)

3) Again, on the LAX-MEL segment, when an alternate is required, again there is a payload restriction. (UA PW powered 400)
Fly fast, live slow
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: UA Intl Rumors And A/C Rumors

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:32 pm


I think the part about teh Airbus A340 lost it's credibility when "Airbus is hoping UA will become an all Airbus operator" yet it only states the possibility of replacement of the 744s but not a single 777 and UA will not let go of a single 777 out there and when they become healthy, the ones in the desert will return.
regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!

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