Sorry to say you don't have the story correct. It wasn't a pilot at PSA, but rather a ground worker. The ground worker had a ramp badge which allowed him to bypass security. In the US flight crews don't get ramp badges; therefore they couldn't bypass security.

Philsquares-Thank you very much, I stand corrected...

In the US flight crews don't get ramp badges; therefore they couldn't bypass security.

At Delta at least they can have ramp access badges at their home base. They are not at the present time required to have them but there is a push on at Delta to require all flight crew members to have a ramp badge for their home base. The reason for it is that the CSAs are too often having to interrupt their handling of customers to let flight crew members into the jetways. Most if not all Delta stations have card readers on the jetway doors that require a ramp badge to open them.

Also, thanks to everyone who has paticipated in this thread. A lot of great opinions were tendered. I know I learned from it.  

Dl757Md

Maaan! Di757Md if this is how you feel about this...don't ever fly Southwest!

No I think that was a very personal joke and very inappropriate. Get a new job if you feel you are not making enough money. Our pax do not need to hear that nonsense.........And You as a pilot you job is also customer service as well as safety!

Maaan! Di757Md if this is how you feel about this...don't ever fly Southwest!

Hadn't planned on it.

I think his comment has been taken a bit to far. For those who think he was in bad taste for talking about his salary he really wasn't at all. He said he took a pay cut and told the percentage but never said "I make...." Or "we get less than..." SO I don't know why it would be bad taste because its nothing the news hasn't been reporting for the past month or so. Secondly it wasn't said with malice towards his company he was just trying to lighten the mood or maybe trying to let people know that the pilots at delta aren't steaming mad over the highly publicized contract negotiations.

Sure it did take a little guts to say the comment I will admit that but it is definitely not an offense he could lose his job over. The American pilot who tried to convert his pax to Christianity mid flight didn't even get fired. Delta pilots vary wildly in personality much like any other airline but it is good to see that some of us do have a sense of humor left. As far as company policy he was out of line but nothing more then a simple chat couldn't fix. Its the people that were writing in these posts showing that they could lose faith in a crew SO quickly that have made passenger interaction dull as a crayon. Sometimes I am glad I have a locked door in between me and some of these pax just so I don't slip up and actually have a personality. Not like many people want to hear from us at all but meeting interesting people is always fun.

As for the person who has been in the third seat and said that the pilots were "on the soap box" its almost funny that you say that because I had a check airmen come up with me last week who was talking our ears off almost every second we didn't need a sterile cockpit. If we miss a call... It happens but I doubt any pilot would miss more then one. If you expect us to sit there for hours on end just doing nothing but checking in your nuts ... We probably would go crazy ourselves. For the most part pilots are very serious about their jobs but this comment doesn't mean that this man or women was a bad or out of line pilot.

Look . . . here's my two cents: GET OVER IT!!! What is wrong with Americans??? So damn sensitive over every little thing. Sensitive over what's said and displayed on TV and in Music . . . Sensitive over something as simple as saying the pledge of allegiance in a classroom . . . Sensitive over what a popular female vocal group says about stupid President Bush . . . stop being so effeminate. The guy made a joke. I can't fathom being offended by a comment like that. In fact, that would have been the last thing on my mind. I would have been too busy laughing my butt off. People who get offended over things like this are often very pessimistic. This was something so minute that was blown up into epic proportions by some of you fellow A.net members. Get a life and a sense of humor. Some of you guys read too deep into things. You took something lighthearted and funny and twisted it around and took in the worst possible way the comment could have been taken. Not too surprising considering 59 million idiots voted for ignoramus Bush again. Grow a funny bone and live life. And that's my two cents.

[Edited 2004-11-16 08:46:03]

I really hate to resurrect this lengthy thread, but hopefully this will put an end to it.

The degree of appropriateness is decided by the audience of the remark, in this case the passengers, and not by the makers of the remark, the pilots.

Since we can't poll the passengers, we can at least look at the debate that the remark generated on this board. I think everyone can agree that the posters do not agree, and if the posters were the passengers on this flight, a significant percentage would have found the remarks in poor taste.

When it comes to depending on any group of customers for your livelihood, I think we can all agree that they are a diverse group of people with differing emotions, perspectives, and fears. If even a small percentage of this group would perceive the remark as inappropriate, then so be it...it is inappropriate. We can not risk alienating our customer base with remarks that even hint of inappropriateness. These remarks are best left to private conversations.

"These remarks are best left to private conversations."

Amen! This sort of joke is the kind best shared with other crewmembers at the layover hotel, not in a public announcement when the plane is full of pax. Furthermore, had a Delta employee OTHER than a pilot made the remark, he or she would be fired post haste.

He is probably and Eddie Haskell that slipped through the system. Not all pilots are respected or respectful, he is one of those said pilots.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL

As much as many airlines like to have employees who like to have fun with the passengers, I feel the pilot was valid in making his comments.

Only the severely anal-retentive with no sense of humor and no life would have taken serious offence at that joke. Humor often lands most of us in hot water with those who choose not to or have no ability to laugh.

A 'sense of humor' doesn't explain away everything folks. What if the pilot said since his pay was cut, then he only had to get 65% of the passengers to the destination alive? That's still a sense of humor, but appropriate? You have to consider that there are nervous flyers onboard and a comment like the one made will put to question the crew's intentions on maintaining safety by a nervous flyer and could make them quite anxious and uncomfortable during the flight. I used to be a nervous flyer and I would've felt very uncomfortable with that. Now I know everyone here is an expert and everything aviation-related and as fearless as one can get, but not everyone is. I think that pilot should be warned, not so much for taking his grievence to the pax but for possibly making some of the passengers extremely uncomfortable.

Guys - this is symptomatic of a culture where people try very hard to be outraged and in some way disadvantaged by the littlest thing that someone else does - more so if its a business - customer relationship.

It was a joke. Grow a sense of humour mate - if you dont have anything positive to say about it, then keep quiet. Why express this great moral outrage at such a small and pointless (and quite funny) thing? Its not like he threatened to kill you is it? Jeez...

Thanks for bringing a healthy dose of logic back to this thread, ChrisBA777ER.

I, for one, appreciate it.



2H4

JetService is right.

ChrisBA777ER, question is, where do you draw the line? Like many have said, I too don't have a personal problem with that remark, but in upholding a professional atmosphere, certain things you don't joke about. What is acceptable to you, or even myself, might not be at all tolerated for a small group of individuals on board. You don't joke about safety, company politics, or other such things. The pilot has a huge amount of things he can joke about to create a lively and laid back atmosphere, and I commend any crew member who can create such an environment for their passengers.

There is a certain protocol when acting as a professional, and a cavalier attitude certainly does not fit in with it. I'll bring the recent example of a president for a North American division for an automobile manufacturer. At a product introduction a week or two ago, he bad mouthed the product of another division from the same corporate parent, plus he remarked about how the former chairman of the company was too engrossed with engineering status, rather than building cars customers would buy. Guess what, he was absolutely correct. However, he made a huge mistake by first of all making those remarks, plus making them at such an event. He was subsequently fired from the company and rightly so.

The point being is that as a spokesman or professional, you have to know when you can joke about something, and what you can joke about.

chrisba777er,
The sad part is nobody gives a rats ass if a pilot takes a pay cut, NOBODY in the cabin cares, SO why make the comment? That isn't being anal-retentive if you think it is tacky if an unprofessional pilot makes a comment about HIS salary. It was in poor taste. Sadly, people only want to get from A to B, not hear the monkey in the flight deck talk about his pay cut, they should have taken that cut years ago.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL

I shudder to think what the world would be like if everyone were mindless drones, programmed to do one thing only and abandon any shred of personality, creativity, or sense of humor they once had.

Then again, many here seem to be demonstrating just that.






Can I come live in your country, ChrisBA777ER?


2H4

Guys - we are just as bad. I dont know why but we we all seem intent of nit-picking the tinyist little thing and making a massive deal out of it. Like if the train is ten minutes late - you get people being arrested for physically assaulting station staff, or when you have a massive scream and shout bringing McDonalds to a standstill because the immigrant worker behind the desk misunderstood your request for no gherkin. Or when people demand compensation and threaten legal action to the beleaguered crew of the Cross-channel car ferry because they are being sick because the weather is bad. There seems to be a blame culture here and for everything bad in the world - the brits prefer to blame one person if possible, and spit out a venomous torrent of vitriolic hate whenever that person even comes up in conversation. Its gotten to the point now, where being angry and blaming someone for something is "cool" and "in fashion" (thats mostly the fault of the media over here but thats a different thread) and so people start looking for mistreatment and malpractice just so they can have their sickeningly self-righteous rage. This is whats happening with this thread - the tiniest little thing, a passing joke, and nothing more, and someone feels the need to be indigant about it, as if this little joke has somehow personally offended them and infringed on their civil liberties.

We dont have a lawsuit culture yet, but we are experiencing political correctness gone mad over here and its annoying the hell out of me. To raise the tone of the thread, so it doesnt get too depressing - Ive posted a rather funny and painfully true exchange between Nelson and Hardy on the fighting top as they prepare to take the English fleet into battle against the massed French and Spanish fleets at Trafalgar.

How would Nelson have fared if he had been subject to modern health and safety regulations ?

"Order the signal to be sent, Hardy."

"Aye, aye sir."

"Hold on, that's not what I dictated to the signal officer. What's the meaning of this?"

"Sorry sir?"

"England expects every person to do his duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability. What gobbledegook is this?"

"Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting 'England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

"Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

"Sorry sir. All naval vessels have been designated smoke-free working environments."

"In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the main brace to steel the men before battle."

"The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. It's part of the Government's policy on binge drinking."

"Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it. Full speed ahead."

"I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this stretch of water."

"Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest, please."

"That won't be possible, sir."

"What?"

"Health and safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness. And they said that rope ladder doesn't meet regulations. They won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

"Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

"He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the fo'c'sle Admiral."

"Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

"Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free environment for the differently abled."

"Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card."

"Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under-represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

"Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

"A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let the crew up the rigging without crash helmets. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

"I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy."

"The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

"What? This is mutiny."

"It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of legal aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

"Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

"Actually, sir, we're not."

"We're not?"

"No, sir. The Frenchies and the Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation."

"But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

"I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary."

"You must consider every man an enemy who speaks ill of your King."

"Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules."

"Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?"

"As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu. And now there's a ban on corporal punishment."

"But how are we to keep order, and discipline?"

"We are only allowed to order a time out for insubordination, treason, and cowardice Sir"

"What about sodomy then?"

"I believe thats to be encouraged Sir..."

"In that case ...kiss me, Hardy."