NW DC-10 Engine Fire @ NRT

AMS · Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:17 am

I just heard that an engine of a NW DC-10 bound from Tokyo NRT to HNL
got on fire when the pilot started up the first engine.
Anyone has some further news on this?

Regards,
AMS

N808NW · Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:33 am

And just where did you hear this???????

AMS · Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:36 am

N808NW,

I was reading this on a Japanese website, but only with the above information.

Regards,
AMS

N808NW · Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:39 am

OK... I'm not saying I don't believe you. We'll have to wait until someone can tell us more.

-Jason

AMS · Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:52 am

Here is the Japanese link, There is a NW photo with the firetruck, just click on it!

http://news.fs.biglobe.ne.jp/social/

Regards,
AMS

Carpethead · Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:28 pm

NW goes together with fire trucks.
I don't mean to spell gloom and doom to NW, as I wouldn't want to see anybody hurt or killed, but NW has the most amount of troubles at least in Japan. I have seen a couple of JL flights with fire trucks in tow or preparation but I have seen numerous times with NW. Even seen an engine fire on a DC-10 at KIX.
What heck to they put in their engines?

burnsie28 · Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:22 pm

Great exaggeration Carpethead, maybe its because you only seem to want to remember when it happens to NW because you have some kind of beef with them?

NWAFA · Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:23 pm

Carpethead,

oh please, UA and the 777 has had more problems than our DC10s

burnsie28 · Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:29 pm

Carpethead,

oh please, UA and the 777 has had more problems than our DC10s

I was thinking about mentioning that, since a lot of UA 777's have been diverted, the most well known was the one that I believe landed in White Horse? Sat there for about 3 weeks or so because of engine failure. Along with many being diverted to Anchorage, Fairbanks, Yellowknife etc.

NWAFA · Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:31 pm

Burnsie,

I think your right here, Carpethead is out for NWA...he/she is so out of here in facts...he/she forgets to post about the 777 always having problems..or UA having problems within Japan.

uadc8contrail · Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:14 pm

nwafa-burnsie,
you 2 have got to be feeding off each others anti ual feelings......anything that happens to nwa will have you 2 idiots throwing in a ual angle on it within 10 mins of the thread being started.......next time i see those "when is nwa getting rid of those old dc9s" you better throw in a great ua slant or you 2 are losing your edge.....i bet you 2 even blame ual for andersons unexpected and sudden departure from nwa,,,,,could it be that he has seen into the crystal ball and he didnt like what he was seeing or im sure you 2 wonders had ual in on his leaving....either case keep up the good work you make alot of us laugh at your thought provoking words of wisdom

burnsie28 · Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:42 pm

Too bad there is not a non-respected users Uadc8contrail, not i was just using true facts to support my statement.

And now, Anderson left because Health Care doesnt have unions, and United Healthcare is not exactly in that great of shape either.

Carpethead · Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:08 pm

No, I am not out to get NW.
Yes, UA has had diverts with its 777, but Yellowhorse isn't in Japan. Is it?
UA does have problems from time to time too.
However, spotters here in Japan are notorious for NW jokes for flaming engines, tire bursts, and general problems because they occur with more frequency than any other carrier that flies into Japan.
This is no exaggeration. I am just reporting facts and opinions of many enthusiasts in Japan.

NWFltAttendant · Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:16 pm

uadc8.... lets hear it... someones always picking on UA these days - kinda reminds me of whinny kids in grade school.. the one always yelling for the teacher.

burnsie and nwafa..... does seem that carpethead is exaggerating quite a bit. At first glance it did seem to be a great deal of sensationalism. Really there is no way to substantiate it one way or the other - some people just have selective memory.

m404 · Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:23 pm

And now, Anderson left because Health Care doesn't have unions, and United Healthcare is not exactly in that great of shape either

Not too many insurance companies have unions. I'd say he left for a slight raise in pay Wink/being sarcastic

and no unions or other demanding he take pay cuts. Not to mention the new relation UH has with NW.

aa777jr · Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:55 pm

Why does NW seem to have so many mechanical problems landing their widebodies at NRT?

AA777jr

DTWINTLFLYER · Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:55 pm

We sure as hell don't have "so many problems landing (our) widebodies in NRT". When you take into account that we have so many flights in and out every day and occasionally there is a problem, I don't think that means we have a lot of problems. I can think of two incidents in the past couple of years (an A330 with hot brakes and this - WOW, we had better shut down our operations! I also don't think Anderson leaving is some sort of crystal ball sign of bad things to come. All of the legacy carriers are struggling, but NW is certainly in much better shape than UA, even a non aviation person would have to see that one!! I am not here to bash UA, but if you want to compare, I would say NW is in a heck of a lot better shape for now and in the future. We were run much more efficently and effectively than NW.

Anyway, can't we just get back to the thread.....anyone have more information..

BillElliott9 · Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:48 pm

To quote Jack Webb from Dragnet fame: "Just the facts, M'am".

bobnwa · Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:54 pm

Aa777jr,

Please give us a short list of the problems Northwest has had at NRT along with the problems the other carriers have had for the same time period.

N79969 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:04 am

Carpethead is exactly correct in reply 12. It is unbelievable that so many people take his remarks as a personal affront of some kind. Rather than responding with over-the-top hyperbole such as that contained in replies 10, 13, and 16, make a point. Carpethead does not exaggerate in the least.

Among many Japanese, NWA has a reputation for having mechanical problems. Having spent substantial time in the country, I can attest to that fact personally. Aside from the events that make the news, NWA has had several mid-air turnbacks and delays are not uncommon. Even taking into account that they are the 2nd largest carrier at Narita after JAL, they seem to have a disproportionate number of problems. "Seem" is the key word because we are talking about a perception.

One more than one occasion Narita airport was closed (when it had one runway) due to a problem with a NWA aircraft. One one occasion an engine actually came off the airplane. When you do not have a parallel runway, that creates a huge headache because of diversions, delays, and so on.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001206X00889&ntsbno=DCA94RA037&akey=1

I recall hearing about 2nd incident when NWA dropped an engine onto the runway but I cannot find a record unfortunately. Needless to say events that shutdown the country's premier international gateway make the evening news.

As to whether this perception is well-founded, I am not sure. It would require a fairly complex statistical analysis. But what Carpethead says about the perception of NWA in Japan is basically right.

mtnmanmakalu · Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:05 am

Easy there Carpethead...

Maybe it is because NWA has sooooo many flights in and out of NRT and the age of the DC-10's. The DC-10 is still a better A/C than ANY Airbus, and we will see how good of shape an A330 or A340 is (if it is even flying!) when they are that old!!! Anybody who knows anything about the '10 knows that it is a temperamental A/c, but SAFE!!!

I am on my way out for a 8 1/2 hour flight on one this morning and have no anxiety.

I suggest you compile a list of ALL Airline incidents in NRT in accordance to their number of flights to the same- or fly somebody else if it is such and issue with you!!

Later....

JTNWAFSD · Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:02 am

So what the hell does all this banter have to do about finding out if there was
an engine fire on a NWA DC-10

JGC84 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:16 am

Hi, this is my first post on A-net.

I've counted the numbers of flight irregularity incidents for flights to and from Japan from February 2000 to August 2004 by non-Japanese airlines, as reported to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT).

Source: http://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/04_outline/02_anzen/04_toukei/01_irregular/index.html
(in Japanese only)

1. Northwest 70
2. Fedex 36
3. United 18
4. Continental* 14
5. Cathay Pacific 12
6. China Airlines 11
7. China Eastern 10
8. UPS 9
9. Delta 7
10. Air Canada 6
11. Thai 5
11. Philippine 5
13. American 4
13. Korean 4
13. Qantas 4
13. Varig 4
13. Alitalia 4
18. Air China 3
18. Air New Zealand 3
20. China Southern 2
20. Evergreen International 2
20. Lufthansa 2
* Includes Continental Micronesia
Less than two incidents for other airlines.

Flight irregularity incidents are defined as incidents involving the following:

1. Changes to destination after takeoff due to mechanical problems
2. Returns to airport of origin due to mechanical problems
3. Priorities in terms of air-traffic control due to mechanical problems
4. Minor collisions with another aircraft or other objects
5. Deviation from runways
6. Closing of runways

Note that these incidents do not include major accidents (i.e. hijacks, crashes), and also do not include incidents due to bird strikes, illnesses, and/or weather.

I don't know the exact number of flights that these airlines operate in and out of Japan each week, but it does look as though the number of flight irregularities for Northwest is high (i.e. approximately 4 times that of United)...

bobnwa · Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:30 am

What were the numbers for JAL, the largest carrier at NRT and ANA. NWA is quite a bit larger at NRT than all the carriers listed including United, so I am not sure that the numbers are that far out of wack.

I do agree that Northwest's reputation on Japan is not the best, but is it justified.

Don't forget that Japan is the home of the group honeymoon trips, and they can't understand why the rest of the world finds that unusual.

philhyde · Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:48 am

So how about someone post a picture of the engine fire instead of arguing about all of this other nonsense???

mika · Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:55 am

The DC-10 is still a better A/C than ANY Airbus, and we will see how good of shape an A330 or A340 is (if it is even flying!) when they are that old!!!

Complete bollocks as you as far as i am concerned, cant look into the future. What makes your Airbus accusations better than his about the DC10? You have no facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying.

yvrtoyyz · Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:01 am

No pictures in the given link by AMS

Carpethead: There are three large urban areas in Canada's north: 1) Whitehorse, YK; 2) Yellowknife, NWT; 3) Iqualuit, Nun.

Nice try in attempting to refer to a diversion that never occurred in a place that doesn't exist: Yellowhorse - the referred to diversion of a UA B772 because of engine problems was to Yellowknife, NWT.

yukimizake · Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:17 am

"Don't forget that Japan is the home of the group honeymoon trips, and they can't understand why the rest of the world finds that unusual."

That is a strange thing to say, not only is it complete BS, such a comment has zero relevance to the topic. That is unless you mean to undermine the Japanese for their justifiably poor opinion of NW.

KLM747 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:43 am

Here is a photo of a firetruck next to the NW DC-10.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20041124-02170489-jijp-soci.view-001

Will

burnsie28 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:48 am

That is unless you mean to undermine the Japanese for their justifiably poor opinion of NW.

If that's the case, why did the Japanese vote NW as the best North American Airline? Why does NW carry more Japanese and other pax then even ANA, let alone UA? I can already tell you of 5 UA flights that should be listed, because family members have been caught up in that 5 times, all happen to be going to SEA (not that it matters) Also, 70 maintenance delays with that many flights that NW has, for four years, its not very high. Carpethead is blowing it way out of proportion, and I did a search in the computer, all the flights that were flown on the day this reportedly happened, all flights were on-time.

Either way, this discussion is going no where look at the facts. Comparing NW incidences to that of Continental and UA is going to look absurd, with NW having a lot more flights then they do, also, now that most of the fleet is newer incidences like this on NW are less likely to occur. That's why UA has fewer incidences, because they have newer planes and fewer flights.

bobnwa · Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:23 am

Yukimizake,

Sorry if my remarks offended. I was trying to show that ordinary things in one country are looked at differently in another country.

I also looked at the figures published by JGC84 for just one year for Northwest compared to the Japanese carriers. I read some Japanese
Incidents 2000 including cargo flights
JAL-32
ANA-28
JAS-17
NWA-15

Given Northwest's size in Japan, these numbers are not extraordinary.

Also remember that US carriers are required to declare an emergency when landing with non-functioning items on aircraft that are not safety items. This is not required by foreign carriers. This inflates the US numbers.
,

kaitakfan · Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:26 am

"That's why UA has fewer incidences, because they have newer planes and fewer flights".

United does have alot of newer planes, but NWA is not doing too bad themselves. Their 747-400s and A330's were very dominant in the NWA fleet at Narita when I was there the other week. As far as more flights are concerned... maybe only but a few. United appears to be pretty much neck and neck with NWA out of Narita. Does anyone have the flights per day difference for NWA and UAL?

Cheers!

n229nw · Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:16 am

Hey could we actually get a tail number on this one?

filler

Jano · Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:27 am

JGC84

re "Source: http://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/04_outline/02_anzen/04_toukei/01_irregular/index.html"

Welcome to a.net

Thanks for posting the numbers. However, I do believe we would get the real picture if we were using the relative numbers and not absolute numbers. To get those we would need to know how many flights were flown "from February 2000 to August 2004" by each carrier mentioned in your list.

StearmanNut · Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:30 am

It's not only UA's 777's which have engine fire issues, BA's 777's have had plenty too. Rare to hear about an DC 10 or MD II with engine fires.

N79969 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:06 am

Burnsie28,

Where and when was NWA voted the best North American airline in Japan?

" Why does NW carry more Japanese and other pax then even ANA, let alone UA?"

Simple. NWA is an incumbent carrier at Narita. ANA was not allowed to operate outside of Japan until 1986. By that time virtually all of Narita's slots had already been allocated. That is why NWA is larger than ANA there. It is not because they are more popular than ANA.

UAL entered Japan in 1986 as well when it bought Pan Am's Pacific network. It is also capable of incremental growth. There are no slots to be had at Tokyo.

Those are not 70 mx delays. That figure represents mid-air turnbacks...just read the definitions again.

commander_rabb · Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:22 am

How many Japanese tourists has NWA lost in the past 20 years?

NWA is big in Japan and always has been. A lot of Japanese nationals fly NWA, and they seem happy doing so. This is just another "Korean Air" type finger pointing by those who like to point their fingers.

Although we ALL know the "reputation" of KAL. Smile

burnsie28 · Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:26 am

Where and when was NWA voted the best North American airline in Japan?

http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/newsc/2002/pr102820021029.html

N79969 · Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:07 am

Burnsie28,

Did you even read the press release? It doesn't say that NWA was voted the best North American airline in Japan. Nor can you draw that inference.

CommanderRabb,

NWA is big because of landing rights at Narita and not because of market forces.

yukimizake · Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:16 am

"A lot of Japanese nationals fly NWA, and they seem happy doing so."

While this is true don't mistake this as a glowing endorsement of NW's service. NW is simply the choice for budget minded travelers, they have the cheapest fares (e.g. from NRT to YYZ you can save $100-$150 by flying on NW via DTW instead of the direct AC flight).

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