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NWA ARJ
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Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:45 am

I heard yesterday on CNN that Delta may drop Comair as one of their regional carriers. Is there any truth behind this. I figure someone on these forums knows something about this.
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Lindy
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:50 am

But Delta owns majority stake at Comair. How can they drop it?

Rafal
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lowrider
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:56 am

No, Delta owns Comair outright. All paper trails lead back to Atlanta. There is talk about Comair being spun off, similar to ExpressJet or Pinnicle, but that is it for now.
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hiflyer
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:57 am

The question may be not if DL will drop Comair but what price could DL get for Comair....and who would buy Comair given the current financial peformance of FLYI with RJ's as a standalone carrier? DL is back on the street selling notes again today....suspicion is that they have an upcoming cash problem. Most everything at DL is leveraged...selling of the owned Express carriers may be a solution to cash....and possibly pilot scope deals later.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:01 am

As Lowrider said, DL would spin Comair off just like Continental did with ExpressJet. Comair would still feed DL...they just wouldn't be owned by Delta. Initially, DL would probably structure the deal so that Comair could only feed the DL system. But at some later point in time, Comair might be free to pursue feeding other carriers (similar to how SkyWest feeds UA, DL and CO).

DL may face another cash problem so spinning off Comair (or ASA) might give them some extra cash. It would also allow DL to dump some debt as the debt associated with Comair's RJ's would go with the spun off company.


 
LUV4JFK
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:08 am

Just a bit off topic, but didn't Delta sell Business Express to American for American Eagle services? I know that a lot of the flights that American Eagle flies out of LGA were former Business Express routes.

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ouboy79
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:12 am

Delta never owned BEX. Delta initially only owned ASA and later picked up Comair. Remember at one point Comair was also the AirTran Florida Connection back in the 90s before the merger with VJ. I don't think DL really liked having to share Comair...since they have been feeding DL since the early 80s.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:18 am

Remember at one point Comair was also the AirTran Florida Connection back in the 90s before the merger with VJ. I don't think DL really liked having to share Comair.

HUH???? I live in Florida. I don't remember this.  Confused
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:22 am

They applied the AirTran code to Comair flights out of the Orlando hub to all destinations except CVG - conflict with Delta.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:29 am


Here is a good article from last week's Enquirer:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041218/BIZ01/412180340
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:32 am

I think that with all of Delta's cash flow problems right now that they should sell Comair and keep the feeder contract. From what I understand it is a heavy drain (high seat/mile cost) situation and they buy all the planes for them I think.

No one is going to buy Delta paper with most of the aircraft and assetts already leveraged to the hilt. Plus $20 Billion in Debt? It's a hole they will have a very hard time getting out of. I think that right now DL is the weakest of the legacy carriers in all terms (service, finances, future).

I would almost be willing to bet they fold before US does.
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SESGDL
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:44 am

Dayflyer,

DL is NOT the weakest of the legacy carriers. Have you heard of UA or US? DL is in good shape I believe, they're no worse off than CO, NW, or AA now that they have their pilot situation figured out. And DL WON'T fold before US, no WAY!

Jeremy
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:44 am

A few days ago, I read the article on DL perhaps spinning off Comair and the first thing that came to mind was Pan Am starting to sell assets for cash. The Pan AM building, hangers, terminals, routes. planes...
With Delta, this may be the beginning of the end of DL, but then again it may be a smart business move. Time will tell.
SESGDL.....sorry but I disagree with almost your entire post (#11). The part I agree with is the last sentence.
safe
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srbmod
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:59 am

The spinoff of Delta Connection Inc (The subsidiary company that owns EV and OH) has been rumored ever since CO spun off Expressjet. Delta would not just sell off OH, and not EV, they would spinoff the two airlines that are owned by Delta Connection Inc. (The other Delta Connection carriers are contracted out, much like how ASA and Comair started out with Delta. Delta has divested their stake in SkyWest, which was also once rumored to have been a takeover target by DL, but OO's relationship with UA scuttled that.) The way the last few airline IPOs have gone is not indictative of how well a spinoff of Delta Connection Inc would do on the markets. The reality is that if DCI were to be spun off that the stock price would be higher than Delta's (Not really a surprise, as XJT is trading around the same price as CAL, and PNCL is trading several dollars higer than NWAC.)
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:21 pm

Isitsafenow,

You think DL is the weakest legacy carrier? That's factually wrong. DL is in better financial shape than US and UA, period.

Jeremy
 
ckfred
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:50 pm

LUV4JFK:

BEX was owned by an investment firm. It was the DL Connection carrier at BOS and LGA. It also codeshared with AA and NW at BOS. Then, AA bought BEX and merged it into Eagle, terminating the codeshare agreements with DL and NW.

I know that DL was using ACA at BOS in 2002, but I don't know who handles the feeder traffic into BOS now.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:17 pm

DL may not be the weakest legacy carrier but, they are in a bad situation. The could sell the feeder carriers in question, ASA and Comair, beacuse they are wholly owned subsidaries. The move to sell them would give DL cash and for a fee per month/year, they could keep the express service going.
All in all, it sounds like a good way to get DL more cash, but for what . . .
Are they running low on cash or do they have something planned for the future?
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
acvitale
Posts: 1913
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:20 pm

Some factual corrections:

Air Tran Airways was started by Mesaba holdings and not Comair

Delta has not had any ownership stake of any magnitude in Skywest

Skywest is a leading contender for the purchase of Comair/ASA

BEX was a Delta feeder when American Airlines bought it and trumped DL grabbing DLs feed and providing it to AA.

AA tried to purchase Air Wisconsin from under UA nose back around the same time. Instead UA bit and later spun it off.

ACVitale
 
ATL2CDG
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:53 pm

ACVitale:

You obviously have NO idea about what you're talking. I don't have the patience nor the inclination to try to correct your "factual corrections". This is just more hogwash for the gullible - not surprising for airliners.net.

[Edited 2004-12-22 07:55:10]
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
G550
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:58 pm

Acvitale,

Skywest is the leading contender to buy Comair based on what information? And also, how did you through ASA into the picture as well?
 
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:10 pm

You obviously have NO idea about what you're talking.

Actually, reading some of the utter garbage posted here by a number of kids I'd wager that his post was by far the most accurate of the bunch.
 
thunder9
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:58 pm

One more "nit-picky" correction to add to the list.  Smile

AA did not buy BEX. American Eagle Airlines, Inc. bought BEX. AA had no part in that acquisition. Of course, Eagle is an AMR subsidiary, as is AA, but it was Eagle went on that BOS/LGA shopping spree.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-J
"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
 
acvitale
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:20 pm

ATL2CDG,

As you claim I have no idea what I speak, I will share a few items that prove me correct and you incorrect.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s Mesaba Holdings started Air Tran Airways. It was spun off in 1993. A link that can provide that information is:

http://bankrupt.com/TCR_Public/021001.mbx

move down about 60% of the way and read. A google search will bring much more information. It was bold and upset Northwest and the pilots but they did it.


As for Delta having any significant ownership stake in Skywest. Much easier to provide that information. Considering the ties I have with some at Skywest....

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/ownership/ownership.asp?Symbol=SKYW

As a matter of fact Skywest was started with private money (Atkin) and private investors in Southern Utah. Delta had once looked at Skywest but it was not affordable and with Skywest having strong ties to UAL. It was viewed that a bidding war would entail.


As for Business Express BEX

http://www.airtimes.com/cgat/usa/businessexpress.htm

provides a look at the wholy owned subsidary of AMR Corp (Parent of American Airlines) who used to fly as Delta Express when independent.

And finally,

An article that describes the AMR, UAL, Air Wisky purchase

http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/17933/105748

Now as for Skywest purchasing ASA and Comair...

Well that you will have to wait and see what happens. They are a potential bidder, have the cash, and are the most likely ones.

I expect an appology as clearly you are incorrect and my statements stand

ACVitale





 
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:24 pm

Considering the ties I have with some at Skywest....

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isitsafenow
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:49 pm

ACVITILE...not bad, guy. Don't forget AMR(eagle) bought Simmons, a regional carrier based in Marquette, MI that was a NW Airlink in the mid 80's with SH 360's. They moved the planes to ORD and MIA from DTW.
Enter Mesaba from MSP to be the airlink from DTW for Northwest.
The rest is history.
Has nothing to do with DL but thought I would toss it in for grins....
Nice info from you...thx
safe
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masseybrown
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:25 am

Something to remember: CO sold ExpressJet when its stock was at its high. DAL will be selling at close to an industry low.

Bad timing.
 
srbmod
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:52 am

Delta has not had any ownership stake of any magnitude in Skywest

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2001/10/08/daily61.html

Air Tran Airways was started by Mesaba holdings and not Comair

AirTran Corp. was originally the name for the holding company that owns Mesaba. When AirTran bought Conquest Sun Airlines, they renamed the airline AirTran, and when NW made them divest themselves of AirTran, Mesaba Holdings became the name of the company that owned Mesaba, and AirTran was spunoff into the company that Valujet later acquired.
 
ATL2CDG
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:37 am

ACVitale:

If you expect an apology from me, you're going to be a long time waiting.

Delta did, in fact, have a noteworthy 'ownership stake' in SkyWest. Beginning in the late 80s with the purchase of a 20% share of stocks and dwindling to a 12.5% share at the time of sale in 2001, Delta controlled a sizeable portion of SkyWest's stock. There had been rumored interests in Delta purchasing the remainder of SkyWest stock, but the economic downturn, the events of 9/11 and SkyWest's continuing relationship with United killed that plan.

http://www.schatzmann.net/swissair/swissair_on_palm/2001_10_15_07_10_45.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=delta+sells+skywest+stock&btnG=Google+Search

Secondly, SkyWest cannot be a contender for the purchase of Comair/ASA if a sale is not outstanding. Rumored speculation about spinoff sales and whatnot is nice and all, but saying that someone is a "contender" at this point in the ball game is foolish and presumptuous. I could just easily say that Mesa, Republic and a slew of others (including investment firms, etc.) are "contenders" for Comair/ASA, but THERE IS NO SALE and THERE ARE NO BIDDERS, thus, there is nothing for which to contend and there are no "contenders".

And given that your "ties with some at Skywest" apparently involves a gate agent or some lonely new-hire flight attendant, I doubt many will be putting much faith in your future assertions of "factual corrections".
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:11 am

Delta did, in fact, have a noteworthy 'ownership stake' in SkyWest. Beginning in the late 80s with the purchase of a 20% share of stocks and dwindling to a 12.5% share at the time of sale in 2001, Delta controlled a sizeable portion of SkyWest's stock.

I can account for the fact that Delta at one time did own a large stake in Skywest. It was sold in 2001 or 2002 after 9/11 in an effort to cut costs. The stake was about 20-27%, I am not completely sure, but I know that it was not any more than that.

As far as Delta at one time considering purchasing Skywest is debatable, but I would not count it out. After sudden purchases of both ASA and Comair, it is believable that Delta may have had a shortlived interest in buying Skywest. But why? Delta's agreement with Skywest is a 'payment per departure' agreement, meaning that Delta pays OO a flat fee amount when a plane operating for Delta takes off, whether it carries 1 pax or 50 pax. It is not very economical and if Delta were to buy Skywest, things could be changed. But with Skywest having close ties to UA and being in the minor majority of connection carriers for Delta, it was probably quickly passed over.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
acvitale
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:08 am

Delta at it's highest had 20% of the common shares. The players that have held substantial amounts include those who at times had over 50% and preferred shares.

I do not consider the Delta amount significant as it was a small minority of the shares and was not even close to being the largest or majority stakeholder.

As for this statement, "And given that your "ties with some at Skywest" apparently involves a gate agent or some lonely new-hire flight attendant, I doubt many will be putting much faith in your future assertions of "factual corrections".

I will not even warrant that one with a response.
 
ATL2CDG
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:17 am

One-fifth of the shares of a company doesn't constitute a substantial amount of 'ownership'? You must be of the Donald Trump school of business where it's "all or nothing". Most people would disagree with your proposition that Delta's stake in SkyWest was insignificant; personally, I would recognize anything greater than 10% a notable presence. I never claimed that Delta was the largest or majority stakeholder, rather, that it did, in fact, have an "ownership of stake of any magnitude", to which you claimed the contrary.

"I will not even warrant that one with a response."

English isn't your mother tongue, is it?
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Delta May Drop Comair?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:23 am

ATL2CDG...I think they're calling your flight.....better run........bye
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.

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