It is very easy to point the finger of blame in the US situation. I can see where US employees have felt compelled to "draw a line in the sand" and stand up to management. However, in this case, to do it over Christmas weekend, is just plain bad judgment. Guess those who called in sick thought US might not be around much longer, so this was the perfect opportunity to stick it to management.

I applaud Clipper and other US employees like him who are dedicated to keeping their airline alive and have not forgotten the impact they have on their customers. I also believe that the rift between dedicated employees and those who wantonly endangered US' relationship with its customers will only continue to worsen. Airline and union management at US is severely lacking. Union management denies any knowledge of an organized "sick out". They may be trying to be truthful in their denial, but I doubt it. Someone along the way organized this action. How can they say they had no such knowledge?

Airline management at US needs to follow the example of airlines such as WN and others. One reason why WN employees respect Herb Kelleher and other members of the Southwest management team is their understanding of the concept of team. Herb does not have such an enormous ego that he would think it's beneath him to handle luggage, clean up during the turnaround, hand out boarding passes, and perform other duties. There are others in the industry who have followed Herb's example, but it appears that those who run US are not among them.

Asking your employees to come in this New Year's weekend and work for free would be much more palatable if both US airline AND union managers would set the example and volunteer THEIR time.

I heard on TV, can't recall if it was CNN or FOX News that US Airways was asking Non-Union employees to volunteer to work on New Year's Eve. If it was a request of NON-union employees, I believe it renders many of the above posts to be irrelevant.

As a salaried non-union employee of a corporation (not an airline), I have been asked to work long days and weekends. I just worked the two Saturdays before Christmas. Sometimes, I come in without being asked. All this is hardly news worthy.

I can't tell you how happy I am that my company is non-union. The inefficiencies I hear about are amazing.

Imagine employees walking off the job if a manager came out to help load bags..... that's crap.

For Free? Are you kidding me. I was supposed to go tdy to PHL yesterday. I was never told I would be going for no pay. Im glad I didn't go. This has got to stop. Management has asked too much from us and for them to ask us to work for free on a Holiday? Give me a break. I work my butt off for this airline they need to take some cuts themselves and work a day or two without pay. DO you see management doing that? Yeah neither do I.

Every company gets the union it deserves.

Every union gets the company it deserves.

That makes a lot of sense there OD, thanks for joining the conversation.

I've been reading the responses here, and over on the Yahoo stock board for UAIR, and given the reactions by some ("they want us to work for free") you have to wonder if they're going to be successful in avoiding a repeat of Xmas weekend on New Year's weekend.

I mean, I hope they do, and I think the article I linked at the begining at this thread was of the "we deparately need your help" variety. It appears that employee morale is such that that "call for help" is being interpreted as the "they want us to work for free" and further inflaming some employees.

I think the court is supposed to rule on whether to toss contracts on Jan. 6th, and that they have various payments due on Jan 15th, but if they have another "operational meltdown" this weekend, those Jan 6th and 15th dates could become a moot issue.

Hope they make it past this weekend...

So - in review:

US Airways wants to run an efficient operation this week-end, as opposed to last week-end.

They will pay those staff who are scheduled to work. But - they can't run the efficient operation just with the staff scheduled to work.

So they need more staff to run the efficient operation - but they won't pay the additional staff.

This is a whole new concept in management/labor relations. Imagine how much money Southwest would be making at PHL if they asked their staff to work for free.

British readers will understand what I mean when I say that US Airways has developed an American form of the traditional Christmas pantomime.  

cheers

mariner

As a salaried non-union employee of a corporation (not an airline), I have been asked to work long days and weekends. I just worked the two Saturdays before Christmas. Sometimes, I come in without being asked. All this is hardly news worthy.


I agree! I am happy as well that my company is vehemently non-union. I see a lot of posts where airline management is blamed for ALL the problems in the airline industry. In my opinion, its the unions that have created most of the problems. Im sure some of you have worked with good unions, however my experience is not the same. Unions have systematically decreased efficiencies and raised labor costs of almost every industry in which they are involved.

I do feel for the employees of US Airways that are dedicated and want to make the airline work. But I have absolutely no respect for any employees that would intentionally call in sick on a holiday and want to see the demise of their employer.

In the non-union world, you can be fired at any time for any reason so employees tend to work a little harder. Not that union employees dont work hard but there are some that take advantage of the union system.

Anyway, there will be some that will volunteer because they enjoy their job and want to see this airline survive. Those people should be commended.

So where are the managers during this crisis? Shouldn't they be out there manning the checkin counters and helphing to lift the bags as well? hmmmmm perhaps these tasks are too menial for them

BUFjets, thanks for pointing out that it's non-union employees only being asked. I work at Starbucks (we're non-union) and on occasion I've gone in as a customer but was called behind the counter because the store was getting slammed, and I've done it without question; granted Starbucks and US Airways are completely different companies; but its all the same in principle.

Thanks BUFjets and Uswyjer. I couldnt agree more.

US mgmt has been in PHL since last week, including headquarters staff, loading bags and working in the terminal to supplant "sick" workers. Read the news carefully and you'll see this.

US employees here ought to know this already.

If that's true Supa, it'sabout time they got off their lazy butts and actually earned their pay

There have been a few posts wondering where the "managers" are during this crisis. I'm a salaried US Airways Staff member at headquarters in Crystal City. I have an MBA and have what I consider a relatively high-level job. I'm responsible for "big" projects that are critical to the survival of this airline. I'm taking Sunday and Monday off from my weekend to help at PHL in any way I can. I sit near at least 10 others (not an exaggeration) who are just like me and who are also volunteering their time in Philly this weekend. None of us consider ourselves "too good" or "above" handling bags or other tasks. I think all of us recognize customer service as one of the most important things. As for me, I'm looking forward to getting to know our customers face-to-face and personally understanding the important work of airport staff.

Good for you Trip Seven....

Sounds like you really understand the important work of airport staff....not offering pay. That's realy gratitude

Convincing employees they should work for free...

Every airline CEO in the world must be creaming in his boxers at the very thought of it.

My advice to US Airways employees? You're going down - as surely as the Titanic. Tell your CEO to shove it, and at least go down with your self-respect.

If that's true Supa, it'sabout time they got off their lazy butts and actually earned their pay

Pilotntrng- You may be frustrated, but lashing out at others when you have no clue what they do isn't really constructive.

Lazy butts? You mean some management employees who work in excess of 50 hrs/wk? You mean the folks who do the financial analysis, route planning, customer care, etc?

Yeah, god knows they don't earn their pay. Only blue collar guys do that. Puh-lease.

Aerofan,


Please read reply #61, before making anymore remarks with no basis at all. It would only take a minute to research something before making immature remarks.

>>>Convincing employees they should work for free...

I find it amazing that some folks are assuming that USAirways' plea to volunteer this weekend is some kind of new trend to be set, i.e. working for free at -any- time in the future.

That fact is that last weekend was very harmful, and a repeat this coming weekend (a -holiday- weekend) would be all the more harmful and could kill the company via people booking away and reducing revenue. They're looking for volunteers -this- weekend, not -every- weekend in the future..

could kill the company via people booking away and reducing revenue

I'd make the bet this is already happening . . . and at a greater volume than the pre-holiday fiasco.

I truly hate seeing US go down too by the by . . . but I'll tell you right now, I'd not book a flight across town on US . . . and definitely if that town were PHL.  

How much longer can this go on for? When you think they've hit rock bottom something else comes up, and now they want employees who have already taken drastic cuts in salary to work for free?? HMM. Any estimate when they will cease operations? This is so sad. I still have mileage with them and don't care what happens to it at this point and time.

RyanAFA, since the anti-union A.netters have such a love-fest going on, I'll add you to my respected users list...  

Someone above made the comment that the pax "believed in USAir..." What a load. The passengers jumped on Travelocity or whatever and bought the cheapest ticket they could buy.   Those shocked and saddened displaced travellers probably didn't even know what airline their tickets were on until they drove to the airport.

I am making a bold prediction that may evolve slowly over the next decade but here goes: New unions representing airline employees will be formed and will be more along the lines of the longshoremen and construction trades. Contracts will be the same from carrier to carrier. There will be national seniority and the ability to move from company to company depending on their financial success or failure. While this will remove the ability of airlines to whipsaw their employees, they will at least know their employee costs up front. The pendulum WILL swing back.

The travelling public in America is watching their own golden goose die by flying on below cost fares paid for by the airline employees. JMO.TC

How is this request legal?

There are wage and hour laws.


No, it is all volenteer! volenteer work is not counted. I remember not too long ago Delta was having a problem, they have their pilots work voluntary overtime and they refused to work the overtime...

To the person who mentioned WN and Herb...also remember that WN is non-union, but it is that close relationship between managment and crew that keeps this from turning union. Same with jetBlue. Neeleman rides the planes with the customers...but not only that, but he passes out the snacks...he talks to everyone, getting staff and customer comments/complaints...he is one of the most involved airline exectutives around...and his crews are, again, non-union.


Any chance we may see Gordon take over in a last-ditch attempt to recover?

I hate to tell ya kid but SWA is ALL union. Better check your facts before you post.

Slider,

What financial analysis? US has nothing, will contnue to have nothing, so what's the point of analyzing it. Aww the higher ups have to work a little extra each week? Try working between 60 and 70 hours each week with part time status. We onlyhave 4 full-timers here on the ramp because many have quit. They replace them with part-timers and abuse them , knowing they don't have to pay any benefits. Out manager had the balls, in a station meeting , to say we did a good job and saved the company 156,000 dollars last year. We saved because we were shorthanded, busted our asses, and did it with little equipment. So don't give me that Puh-leeese crap.

That fact is that last weekend was very harmful, and a repeat this coming weekend (a -holiday- weekend) would be all the more harmful and could kill the company via people booking away and reducing revenue. They're looking for volunteers -this- weekend, not -every- weekend in the future..

OPNLguy, I think that's part of the issue here. Asking for volunteers this weekend that might "be all the more harmful and could kill the company via people booking away and reducing revenue" could easily be extrapolated into some future weekend, so what this particular situation does is establish a precidence for it. It's therefore not outlandish at all for people to be a little leery of this request.

US has a long way to go to get out of the rut they're in whereby it's safe to say that there will be many other similarly critical weekends that might justify a similar request: more bad storms will snarl the East Coast before this winter is up, computer failures happen from time to time, and other bunches of bad apples might create even more bad press. For those of you honorable enough and dedicated to your company to pitch in on your own time, good luck; I tip my cap to you. But somehow I don't feel like this would be the last time you'll be asked and if you give an inch now, well, you know the rest...

-Mike

By the way, since they are looking for volunteers on New Years Eve, can anyone from the general public work? I'm sure there are some airline enthusiasts that would love the chance.....you see? They should've thought outside the box

It is not a bad idea. The big snag to this is that every employee has to have a security badge and go through all of the background checks.

As for working for free, my hat is off to those who want to save their airline. However, there is no shame to turning down this request since likely these people are going to be facing bills at home, having to pay for the transportation to work, and losing precious time with their families. This is not a good situation. It is so sad to see what this industry has come to. Your typical employee likely does not sick out. However, they are working more hours, getting less pay, less benefits, and doing the work of five people in some cases. If you work at US Air, hopefully you have a backup plan for your career. Actually, that is true for many carriers.

>>>To the person who mentioned WN and Herb...also remember that WN is non-union, but it is that close relationship between managment and crew that keeps this from turning union.

Psst! SWA is about 80% unionized, give or take...  

>>>OPNLguy, I think that's part of the issue here. Asking for volunteers this weekend that might "be all the more harmful and could kill the company via people booking away and reducing revenue" could easily be extrapolated into some future weekend, so what this particular situation does is establish a precidence for it. It's therefore not outlandish at all for people to be a little leery of this request.

Mikey, I think you've mis-quoted me...

Having a New Year's weekend like last week's Christmas weekend would piss-off additional people, and drive away additional revenue, neither of which the airliner needs, nor can afford, and might not survive.

This coming weekend is different from the average weekend--it's a HOLIDAY weekend. Admittedly, I'm sure there are concerns about that setting a precedent for any future bad weekends or other days, and given the stress and other conditions the employees have suffered for a long while, those concerns are justified.

All that said, the essential point here (which many seem to be missing) is you have to survive -this- weekend before you can even begin to worry about any future weekends.

OPNLguy:

Where does it stop?

If the workers make an exception once, what is to stop management asking them again? A precedent will have been set.

It doesn't matter if it is union or non-union - all workers should be treated equally.

It doesn't matter if it is volunteer or not - people should be paid for the time they work.

Or is US Airways a charity now?

If US Airways cannot afford to pay the extra staff that they claim they need, why should they remain in business?

cheers

mariner

The other question.

Assuming this is legal (I as not convinced it is) what happens if one of these "Volunteers" gets hurt, say lifting something.

My understanding of workers comp is that you have to be on the clock to get any compensation, and since a volunteer, technically isn't.....

>>>Where does it stop?

Very soon, if they have a repeat of last weekend this weekend, and customers totally give up on them...

"...but in my simple thought process a commercial air carrier has several basic responsibilities.
1. Keep their airplanes safe and sound.
2. Transport passengers and baggage safely and on schedule.
3. Treat both employees and passengers with dignity and respect."

Good point, and if u ask meet its even more simple then that, there are 2 things that can happen to an airline to drive down its popularity,
1. Crash
i.e. TW800, the PA highjacking, etc...
2. Customer Service Issues
i.e. NW snow-in at detroit, and this.
IMO a customer service issue is more damaging to an airline then a crash weather or MX related.

And considering how much US has been in the news lately; my entire family knows how badly US is doing! And thats before i tell them all the stuff i know! That says something.

After hearing this news on CNN i knew immeadiatly the end is in sight for US, sorry to say it. They made it further then i predicted tho, this time last yr, i estimated oct as the chp. 7 date, but oct was when they claimed chp. 11. After reading up on the bankruptcy reports, and the pay-cuts, i estimated feb as the chp 7 date, but after this my guess is in the next two weeks.

I hope i'm wrong, for all the good working people at US. I agree those ppl who sicked-out this past weekend, should be ashamed, yet it happened last yr too, and mgmt should have been prepared.

This whole work for free thing?? I dunno, u must really have to believe in your company to do that, and well i know if i worked for US i def would not volunteer. but hey, i dunno, if i was working there, maybe i'd see things in a different light.

"My understanding of workers comp is that you have to be on the clock to get any compensation, and since a volunteer, technically isn't....."

Good point! i wonder if mgmt really thought this thru...becuz i wonder how many employees are wondering the same thing on purpose?! like, sueing US?! thats all US needs now, is a lawsuit from its own employees. Not good, not good.

IMHO i think that as sad as it is, US needs to liquidate, as stated by many others there is just too many flights/airlines in the american domestic sector. And US going under would help the rest out, i.e DL, and UA....I have never flown US so i cannot speak about there service, but i would like to fly with them, so at least to say, i've been on them, when they no longer exsist. To the hardworking employees: Start job-hunting now, before it gets crazy, you deserve to work for a good airline, like IMO WN!

[email protected]

My understanding of workers comp is that you have to be on the clock to get any compensation, and since a volunteer, technically isn't.....

It would go down as unpaid overtime. The Company has requested your work, you are just not being reimbursed for that work.

I would assume staff need to be clocked in as otherwise they should not be in secure areas. It was certainly the case when I was in a similar situation some time ago and worked a double shift for the airline which was mad enough to employ me at the time.

The overtime budget on our section was zero (we were more worried about getting paid for the standard hours we did!), but I had to be clocked in and did eventually get something from upstairs for my time helping clear a backlog in the department.

Aa717Driver,

Ahh some sanity in this thread. Surprise surprise its from an actual airline employee rather than some consultant barking at us to work harder for less (or in this case nothing).

We have long talked about a national flight attendant seniority list at AFA. A lot of the members at the more established airlines have been against it in the past. But in the current crisis - with both US and UA on the brink - I think you will see that conversation reinvigorated. One contract, one seniority list is the only way we'll fix this mess. I know someone who went Braniff, Piedmont, is now with US, and may end up starting over AGAIN if US fails. Some reward for 30 years in the trenches.

To the other people on the forum singing the praises of management's great big hearts showing up and working on days off, remember all airline union contracts have provisions to force workers to work at any time (called "junior manning in the old days). United flight attendants at most domestic bases are being forced to work New Years even if they had it off in the original bid. They are on call today and tomorrow from 2-4 pm for a trip of any length. This is per section 9.J. of the AFA agreement. So United's unionized flight attendants will be walking in to report for duty on a day off right next to those ever so generous US management staff. Again, lets check facts before we spew venom.

THANK YOU RyanAFAMSP!!!! The accuracy of your statements in this thread is much appreciated. You are a breath of fresh air for many of these stagnant minds. It's a pity that many of the minds would rather suffocate.

You've been added to my respected users list. (That's an honour, by the way. LOL)

[Edited 2004-12-30 01:20:28]

All that said, the essential point here (which many seem to be missing) is you have to survive -this- weekend before you can even begin to worry about any future weekends.

I certainly give you that. And admittedly, because it's not nearly the heavily travelled weekend that Christmas was combined with the slim chance of bad weather in the sort of perfect storm that happened last weekend, it seems ok. I didn't mean to take your quote out of context per se, but my point in response to yours remains the same (and somewhat consistent with subsequent posts): where does it stop? Sure, this weekend might not be so bad, but some future weekend that has a bad storm...? or a computer failure...? I dunno, but that looks like another legitimate request--if indeed this one is accepted as such--to ask employees to work for free, and once you get that ball rolling, it's tough to stop.

The bottom line remains the same, and you and I both agree on it, that if US is going to survive in the airline industry, it begins now so future requests are not needed. The likes of a few on this thread who are sacrificing their weekends deserve better...if that doesn't happen through their employment at US, they'll likely make great employees at other airlines and I surely hope that either case happens for the benefit of them in the end.

-Mike

Whew.... From my vantage point, it seems like USAir just bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds red ink. Asking employees to volunteer, whatever else has happened beforehand, seems to be one of the worst signs in the history of bad signs for this company.

In this we see that a whole slew of other moves has not reversed the dreadful losses this carrier continues to incur.

I seriously now believe we may very well be talking about a complete shutdown of USAir by no later than April 1.

US staffers prob WANT to go to PHL. So US corporate issued them an internal e-mail about how to help. Who cares? In my financial company that happens sometimes. Working "off the clock" is a reality unless you are an hourly wage earner.

I think the Barbie and Ken press on TV is unfamiliar with this American reality. It's no news story. And it has none of the philosophical baggage you folks are trying to saddle upon it.

I keep reading where was US management during all of this and how management is terrible there, and they might be, but it's not management that runs the operation. It's the front line employee's who should take pride in their work. Let's face it, most managers are there to follow up on vacation requests and admin stuff. If a single manager tried to help I have no doubt that some worker would have filed a complaint saying a manager was taking a job. There is such a brick wall between both the union and managers that both the union presidents and management needs to be replaced! At one time unions were very needed, but now, drop them! You pay your dues but what do they go for?? You can't tell me higher wages. If that was the case the f/a's and pilots at Mesa would be making more than $14k a year. US had a few years of good times, the unions demanded more, more, more, more...and now that times are hard they aren't very willing to give back. Time to drop the union.

All you union hardliners need to get over yourselves. I bet you all shop at Wal-Mart and would never pay 1 cent more for anything made in a union shop.

The good old days when you could hold your company hostage are over. There is not going to be any nation-wide unions, contracts or seniority lists. Too much greed and dissent within one company's union to expect them to all work together. Just look at the way the AA f/a's stuck it to the TWA f/a's when they had the chance.

Quit blaming management. The root of these evils is deregulation which knocked down entrance barriers. There will be low cost carriers for as long as there are high cost carriers. Airline seats are a commodity and the low cost producer wins.

All the best to Tripseven and the other hardworking US Airways employees.

>>>All the best to Tripseven and the other hardworking US Airways employees.

I'll second that... Looks like they'll have some help come this weekend...

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04365/434644.stm

When they made $25 per hour and management wanted cuts, they said $20 per hour is better then $0.

When they made $20 per hour and management wanted cuts, they said $15 per hour was better then $0.

When they made $15 per hour and management wanted cuts, they said working for free was better then being unemployed.

After they work for free, management will say that charging them to work is better then working for free.

And some stupid person will post on this board that all the evil in the world is caused by unions.

I have read all these responses, some makes me sick and then some really makes me proud of my airline >>>>> US AIRWAYS.

I am a pilot for our company and a proud one at that. I have seen people pull up in their "personal" cars to pick up bags and ask "how can we help" flight attendants, management, and myself have been loading our own planes to have some since of normality for our customers. hundreds have signed up to work for free in the upcoming weekend, including myself.

People, sometimes it's not about the money, it's about company pride! We don't want to see our family broken up into peices all flying for other carriers. We have a solid group of customers that our dedicated to flying us no matter what because they have grown with us and as us with them......

SOOO for those of you that keep bashing this company and cannot wait for us to fail...you all make me sick, you know nothing about company loyalty and in my opinion ... your all not good enough to work for US AIRWAYS ... or fly them as a passenger (but you probably will because it's the cheapest price)
It would make me ill to see any of you in an Airways uniform.

It's the people like workers Tripseven, and our dedicated passengers like FLYYUL and Stpeterc, thank you Chris!

"FLY THE FLAG"
-the clipper

RogerThat:

You are dividing the world into black and white.

I am a strong union person because I work in one of the only true "free market" industries in the world - show business.

If the folks don't pay to see the show, I don't have a job. Sad, very sad, lots of tears and wondering how to pay the mortgage, but life goes on.

I have also seen unfettered management try to take considerable advantage of its employees. Without my union, my guild, I would have no medical insurance and no pension, and numerous fees that are due to me would not be paid.

At the same time, I do not believe that everything unions do is "right". Once, in Australia, I took a union to court - and won - because I did not believe that I should be forced to join that particular union.

The world is not black and white.

cheers

mariner

I was just at RDU a little while ago and saw the local ABC affiliate
parked curbside near Terminal A. Looks like the media just can't get
enough of the US debacle, even with a big tsunami having killed tens
of thousands in SE Asia! Things over at US are getting so bad that a
US ramper asked me if AirTran was hiring here. I think he was joking
but I think they know the end may be coming soon for US. It will
be sad to see these hard working people lose their jobs for where they
have put in the best years of their lives.

Historically, as I've seen it, we're looking at two months of operations from here out. Then it will face its ultimate demise.

I'm betting the first payroll of March won't be met, barring new financing.

Thank you for the reality check Mariner. Before unions, it was a 6 day work weeks and teenagers working in hazardous conditions. I don't always agree with them but they have benefited all working people in some way.

They should just lower the pilot minimums and all the 300 hour guys would jump in for free. Just kidding US air has great pilots.

Ryan:

Many of us on here are on your side. We just don't always add to the fire. After all, I am at home on a restfull day off. I put up with this bull at work. This is my time.

But on another note. If a company has to ask workers to work for free for a period of just 3 or 4 days. Well it is time to end the pain and let people get on with their life. I have flown for 3 airlines. Two of those no longer exist. It had nothing to do with employees. Florida Express Airlines merged with Braniff Part 2. And all of us employees did it the right way until the last airplane came to the gate. PERIOD. When I interviewed with my current employer, she said, "Why do you want to work for this company?" I said, "In this business only two things matter to me. 1. Profits and 2. Safety. Anything else is icing on the cake." So far that way of thinking has paid off. I am (for the moment) not on a paycut, still have good seniority (15 years) and can hold pretty much what I want (without being too selfish). And for those on here who are going to say I am just a status quo employee doing the minimum? Well in the last 5 years, I have been recoginized twice in a group of 25 out of almost 4,000 in a base for outstanding service. The award is strictly based on customer feedback. But what people at USAirways need to understand. No matter how great you are. If the company is not well run from the Top down, then it just ain't going to work. Even if everyone showed up for work over the holidays, it is still just a matter of time. No company is perfect. Certainly not in aviation.

Safe Flying  

May 2005 bring everyone the best of the best and hope for the future !