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masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:41 am

I just purchased a CO ticket and the class is "Z", which I thought was a government fare only. I guess the meaning has changed. Can somebody tell me what "Z" currently means?
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5748
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:43 am

I thought Z was an award ticket.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 am

Better not be, I just paid good $$$ for it.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5748
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:47 am

I just checked.... Z appears to be discounted First/Business First fare class. Did you buy a First or BusinessFirst ticket?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Posts: 11183
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:48 am

Z seems to be the lowest FC class
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:14 am

Z is discounted BusinessFirst, however if BusinessFirst is oversold you get bumped to coach with no refund, as the fare paid is lower than a walk-up coach fare.

Sound unfair?? Yes it is, but I've still to find anyone at CO who will agree!
 
masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:25 am

I thought I was buying plain business - not happy about this bumping business.
 
AMS
Posts: 1621
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:32 am

thought I was buying plain business - not happy about this bumping business

Just pre-reserve a seat, and make sure you arrive well on time before the flight!.....then There should be no problems with any possible downgrade!

Regards,
AMS
 
masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:54 am

The bumping possibility convinced me to call the airline. The rep said it's just a special fare, no downgrade provision.

And I checked - it's not lower than full fare economy, but it's not much higher, either.
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:13 am

MasseyBrown

I'll try to find a letter lying around the office from Continental denying a refund for a passenger that was downgraded from a Z class fare.

Although a pre-reserved seat and an early airport arrival helps, there is still no guarantee.

If a Platinum Elite member wants a seat on that flight, and you are just a gold member, then you will be bumped!
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:21 am

big Orange

That's not true. Z is discounted business. The purchaser will sit in the business class cabin. He will not be bumped for an elite member wishing to upgrade. The only thing that he must be aware of is the cancellation restrictions on this type fare. Usually they are non refundable or sometimes refundable less 50%
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:00 am

Aerofan,

Tell some of my colleagues who I make travel arrangements for here that this is not true. They will tell you differently!

If you have some kind of inside knowledge that says different, I would love to see a written rule to that effect. That way my supervisor and manager can pursue refunds for our employees that CO have refused in the past.

Once again, CO screws people!
 
acvitale
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:41 am

Z is a first or business class ticket. Depending on the fare basis is can be fully refundable with no advance purchase or highly restricted. I have purchased many of these that are fully refundable and changeable.

Unlike Big Orange's assertions. I have never had a problem with oversales or downgrades. If he/she really has had such a problem I would not be surprised if there were other mitigating factors at work.
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:40 am

Acvitale,

I personally have never had a problem, because I don't fly that often, and when I do it's always out of my own pocket.

Unfortunately, many of my colleagues in this company have been downgraded, and they always come back to us to get a refund of the company's money, which CO always deny on the basis that we paid a lower fare than the one way coach fare.

Just looking at fares now and a Z7X fare is $499 one way plus all the extras. The lowest one way walk-up coach fare is $999 plus all the extras!

The only difference I can see if it's happening to no-one else is we get a corporate discount on CO, so our travelers are being penalized, in which case I'm sure our law department would enjoy going head to head with CO!

Again, if any of the CO employees on here who love to defend their company against "unfair" criticism can come up with a memo showing that Z class passengers who get bumped down to coach are due some kind of credit, then feel free to email me and I'll pass it on to my manager.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:44 am

Isn't Z the free OnePass upgrade from coach? If there is an available seat, and you are high enough on the pecking order, you can get it when booking, otherwise, you may get it prior to flight time.

I am not certain what code letter you get for such an upgrade, but it seems I have seen a Z on my boarding pass before - it could have been on NW or DL, though.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
acvitale
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:39 am

The upgrade from coach is R fare on NW and CO.

The CO Z fare is a for purchase F or J class discounted seat.

For example FLL-LAS PBI-LAS FLL-LAX and PBI-LAX are 798.00 RT in F class on a Z fare with CO Fare basis ZR0T. It is fully refundable and changeable.

 
zrs70
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:05 am

Orange:

Whether on a paid ticket, a free ticket, a full-fare ticket, whatever, CO or any airline can't downgrade a passenger if an elite wants to upgrade. Now, if the passenger shows up late, the seat can certainly be given away to another customer. That's the passenger's fault. But the airline can not give a confirmed seat away without due compensation to the passenger who shows up on time.
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
zrs70
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:19 am

Orange:

Here is what you are seeking (from Continental's Contract of carriage):

"When a Passenger holding a ticket for carriage for a higher class of service between a point of Origin and a
Destination is required by the carrier to use a lower class of service for any portion of such carriage the
amount of refund will be as follows:
a) FOR ONE WAY TICKETS: The difference between the fare for the higher class of service and the
fare for the lower class of service between the points where the lower class of service is used.
b) FOR ROUND TRIP, CIRCLE TRIP OR OPEN JAW TICKETS: The difference between
50 percent of the round trip fare for the higher class of service and 50 percent of the round trip fare
for the lower class of service used."
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:15 pm

The facts of the trip are r/t DCA-EWR-HKG for $4,089.90 - Z class. One higher Business fare is 4,449.90, an even higher one is approx. $8000, and the full fare Y is something like 3600.00.

Zrs70, are you saying I'd get a $400 some refund if I were downgraded?
 
zrs70
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:03 pm

Massey:

I am only quoting CO's Contract of Carriage, which says that you should get the difference on the leg flown.

In practice, CO will most likely offer a voucher in whatever ammount the passenger accepts as well as a "downgrade kit," which might consist of a future upgrade coupon or miles.

$400 back would not be based on the CoC, however, as $400 is the difference for the full roundtrip, and we are talking about a downgrade of just one leg.
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
cragley
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:09 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:28 pm


We sell the Z class CO fare all the time from LGW to IAH. Its a maximum 15 day stay ticket which is refundable and changeable.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
marcos
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 4:47 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z Fare Rules Example

Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:48 pm

FARE RULES EXAMPLE FOR A "ZA7N" BUSINESS/FIRST FARE ON CONTINENTAL:

15 MSPSAL 30DEC04 CO USD 650.00 ZA7N STAY---/-- BK-Z
0. APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS
RULE - 005/7701
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
SPECIAL ROUND TRIP FARES BETWEEN THE U.S.A. AND AREA 1
APPLICATION
AREA
THESE FARES APPLY
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND AREA 1.
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/ECONOMY CLASS
SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION
THIS RULE GOVERNS ROUND-TRIP FARES.
FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE
ROUND-TRIP/SINGLE OPEN-JAW JOURNEYS.
THESE FARES DO NOT APPLY RETROACTIVELY.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
THE CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS CARRIED
ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE AND SUCH
FARES WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS.
THE NUMBER OF SEATS WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE
AVAILABLE ON A GIVEN FLIGHT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE
CARRIERS BEST JUDGMENT
5. ADVANCE RES/TICKETING
FOR -7 TYPE FARES
RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 7 DAYS
BEFORE DEPARTURE.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
NOTE -
FOR TRAVEL AGENCY BOOKINGS MADE IN MEXICO/THE
CARIBBEAN/CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA - CO WILL
ASSESS A USD 25.00 FEE ON ANY UNTICKETED
RESERVATION NOT CANCELED BEFORE DEPARTURE.
7. MAXIMUM STAY
NONE FOR ZA7N FARES
8. STOPOVERS
NONE FOR Z- TYPE FARES
10. PERMITTED COMBINATIONS
FOR ONE WAY FARES
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH ANY
FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF TO FORM
SINGLE/DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS.
END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
ADD-ONS PERMITTED.
11. BLACKOUT DATES
NONE FOR Z- TYPE FARES
12. SURCHARGES
BETWEEN CENTRAL AMERICA AND THE UNITED STATES
A SURCHARGE OF USD 15.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO
THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ADULT/CHILD FOR TRAVEL.
NOTE -
THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
THE SURCHARGE WILL NOT APPLY TO PASSENGERS
TRAVELING ON ANY CO FREE TICKET.
THIS SURCHARGE IS GOVERNED BY GEN RULE 12.
15. SALES RESTRICTIONS
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED BY PTA. PTA CONSTITUTES TICKETING.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER
GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT
CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
16. PENALTIES
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CENTRAL AMERICA
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES -
CANCELLATIONS
ANY TIME
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE/ILLNESS OR DEATH OF
PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
NOTE -
WAIVER ALSO APPLIES FOR TRAVELING COMPANION.
TICKET HAS NO VALUE UNLESS TICKETED FLIGHTS
ARE CANCELLED PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME.
CHANGES
BEFORE DEPARTURE
CHARGE USD 100.00.
CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE/ILLNESS OR DEATH OF
PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
NOTE -
WAIVER ALSO APPLIES TO TRAVELING COMPANION.
THE ORIGINAL NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT REMAINS
NON-REFUNDABLE.
CHANGES ARE PERMITTED PRIOR TO THE
TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME OF EACH FLIGHT PROVIDED
THE NEW ITINERARY MEETS ALL THE PROVISIONS
OF THE NEW FARE PURCHASED
I.E. ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKET PURCHASE MINIMUM
/MAXIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS.
ITINERARIES MAY BE REBOOKED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM
ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE PROVIDED TICKETED
FLIGHT IS CANCELLED PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE
TIME. IF TICKETED FLIGHT IS NOT CANCELLED PRIOR
TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
TICKETS AT THESE FARES MAY NOT BE REVALIDATED
TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED. FARE DIFFERENCE AND
CHANGE FEE MUST BE PAID AND TICKETS MUST BE
REISSUED WHEN THE ITINERARY IS REBOOKED.
WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE THE
DIFFERENCE WILL BE ADD COLLECTED AND THE
USD 100.00 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY.
WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE NO
REFUNDS WILL BE MADE HOWEVER THE DIFFERENCE IN
FARE WILL BE RETURNED TO THE PASSENGER IN THE
FORM OF A NON REFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER WHICH MAY
BE APPLIED TOWARDS THE PURCHASE OF A TICKET VALID
FOR TRANSPORTATION GOVERNED BY CO. THE USD 100.00
CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY.
AFTER DEPARTURE
CHARGE USD 100.00.
CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE/ILLNESS OR DEATH OF
PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
NOTE -
WAIVER ALSO APPLIES FOR TRAVELING COMPANION.
THE ORIGINAL NON REFUNDABLE AMOUNT REMAINS
NON REFUNDABLE.
CHANGES PERMITTED PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE
TIME OF EACH FLIGHT.
IF TICKETED FLIGHT IS NOT CANCELLED PRIOR
TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME TICKET HAS NO
VALUE.
TICKETS AT THESE FARES MAY NOT BE REVALIDATED
TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED. FARE DIFFERENCE AND
CHANGE FEE MUST BE PAID AND TICKETS MUST BE
REISSUED WHEN THE ITINERARY IS REBOOKED.
WHEN THE NEW ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE
THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE ADD COLLECTED AND THE
USD 100.00 CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY.
WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE NO
REFUNDS WILL BE MADE HOWEVER THE DIFFERENCE WILL
BE RETURNED TO THE PASSENGER IN THE FORM OF A
NON REFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER WHICH MAY BE APPLIED
TOWARDS THE PURCHASE OF A TICKET VALID FOR
TRANSPORTATION GOVERNED BY CO. THE USD 100.00
CHANGE FEE WILL APPLY.
NOTE -
INVOLUNTARY REROUTING WILL BE PERMITTED ONLY
VIA THE SERVICES OF CO.
18. TICKET ENDORSEMENT
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CENTRAL AMERICA
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES -
THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED-
NONREF/0VALUAFTDPT/CHGFEE - IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX.
19. CHILDREN DISCOUNTS
FOR ZA7N FARES NOTE - GENERAL RULE DOES NOT APPLY
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - 1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT
OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 8-11 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
20. TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS
NONE UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
21. AGENT DISCOUNTS
NONE UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
22. ALL OTHER DISCOUNTS
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
NOTE -
DISCOUNTS MAY APPLY. INFORMATION IS NOT
AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME. CONTACT CARRIER
FOR DETAILS.
 
masseybrown
Topic Author
Posts: 5602
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:46 am

Thanks for all the help, everybody. I'm now convinced I'll get what I bought. The fare rules are more complicated than my insurance policy.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:52 am

Do not wory to much. It seems that Big Orange has a grudge against CO as is evident by his comments.

I have flown them extensively. I only use J C A D Z fares and never had a problem.

ACVitale
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2715
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:24 am

Wow...after reading all of those fare rules, it's no wonder that res agents can have a hard time when you have a complicated itinerary that you need to make changes to. There are a zillion rules to follow!
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:38 am

Yes Cory6188 and imagine a check in agent trying to read all of this and understand it before advising a screaming pax. Not so easy huh

BigOrange,

I suspect there is something more that is occuring with members from your company. I do not work for CO, but my carrier also uses Z fares for discounted business class. I can attest to the fact that we cannot and do not downgrade such a pax in order to upgrade an elite level FF pax.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
AMS
Posts: 1621
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

RE: CO Fare Basis Z

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:06 am

If a Platinum Elite member wants a seat on that flight, and you are just a gold member, then you will be bumped!

This is not True, Having worked myself as a gate Supervisor for several airlines, We NEVER EVER BUMPED SOMEONE Because a Platinum Elite wants to have a seat!!!

Regards,
AMS

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