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twalives
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Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:49 am

Obviously nothing official but this is the first article I have read that makes direct reference to WN utilizing ATA's Hawaii rights through the acquisition.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/01/03/daily22.html


Report: Southwest Air to add Hawaii to schedule
Southwest Airlines is expected to start offering flights to Hawaii under its code-sharing agreement with ATA Airlines.


The Dallas-based airline is acquiring leases on gates and a maintenance hangar from ATA Airlines as part of ATA's bankruptcy in addition to the code-sharing, which will give it access to flights to Hawaii, New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington's Reagan National Airport, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday. ATA, which has larger planes than Southwest's Boeing 737s, flies nonstop to Honolulu and Maui.

A spokewoman for Southwest told the Wall Street Journal that the airline has not made any announcements as to the cities and destinations it may add to its schedule through the code-sharing agreement.

Separately, Southwest said Tuesday it boarded 6.6 million passenger in December, up from 6.1 million in the same month in 2003. Its load factor was 62.9 percent, down from 64 percent in December 2003.

Dallas-based Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) operates 58 daily nonstop departures to 19 cities from St. Louis and has more than 320 employees.

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:59 am

that makes direct reference to WN utilizing ATA's Hawaii rights through the acquisition.

...um, "rights"?



the code-sharing, which will give it access to flights to Hawaii

...meaning that they're just likely to codeshare, not send metal.

[Edited 2005-01-04 20:00:42]
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USairways16BWI
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:00 am

how far is it from LAX to HNL? i know one of their 737-700's could make the flight, right. anyway, isnt there already to many airlines that already fly to hawaii? if they do try that route, i dont think they would want to stay there for that long.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:07 am

how far is it from LAX to HNL?

Roughly 2,200 nm

anyway, isnt there already to many airlines that already fly to hawaii?

Yes, the yields are rather low

i know one of their 737-700's could make the flight, right.

Easily... but their 73G do not have the over-water equippment to fly these routes. WN will install lifevest by 2006, but these will probably be for Florida routings.

if they do try that route, i dont think they would want to stay there for that long.

Hence why it is unlikely WN will start it. If they aren't 99% sure the route can be sustained, they won't "try it" just to prove themselves right.
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azjubilee
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:44 am

Another misleading topic. WN will not start its own flights to Hawaii. Why would they? They can codeshare with ATA and have ZERO costs. Plus, they don't need "rights" to fly to Hawaii. Hawaii is a state you know? AND to top it all off, Southwest is not an ETOPS airline.


AZJ
 
planemaker
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:48 am

FYI, The Wall Street Journal's Scott McCartney also says Southwest Airlines' code-sharing agreement with ATA Airlines will allow it to sell tickets to Hawaii and that access to Hawaii, New York's La Guardia Airport and Washington's Reagan National Airport may be the most important part of Southwest's bailout of ATA Airlines.

http://users1.wsj.com/lmda/do/checkLogin?a=t&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2F0%2C%2CSB110479307523715768%2C00.html%3Fmod%3DDAI
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planespotting
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:51 am

It is unlikely that southwest will even codeshare the hawaii flights on their ATA codeshare. It was mainly for Florida codeshares out of MDW, and ATA was the one that stipulate the codeshare, WN didn't initially want to agree to it, but those were ATA's demands.
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United_fan
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:20 am

They would have to install rafts of they fly to Hawaii.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:26 am

They would gain more if they would just buy Aloha.
safe
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:37 am

They would have to install rafts of they fly to Hawaii.

I believe so, yes. This would actually be easier than installing lifevest, as the bins for the rafts are already in place. A storage clip must be fitted to each seat for the lifevest to be implemented.
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timz
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:10 am

They would need rafts and vests, right? Carrying rafts doesn't delete the requirement for vests.
 
planespotting
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:25 pm

Southwest is NOT flying to hawaii anytime soon. Do not look for the blue and brown to be in honolulu or anywhere else outside the US mainland for sometime. Speculation is fine for the codeshare, but seriously put it to rest about WN flying to hawaii in their own metal.
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FlyMKG
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:48 pm

I thought the reason WN never flew to Hawaii in the first place was that a lot of their rewards program people would use their free tickets to go to Hawaii, and that it wouldn't be profitable. If WN codeshares with TZ on the Hawaii routes wouldn't those routes not make as much money as they do now since so many people would be flying for free?

FlyMKG
 
flyer737sw
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:52 pm

Southwest will be equipping there 737's with life vests over this coming year...Currently Southwest is only allowed to fly up to 50 miles off shore...Once the life vests are installed it allow the 737 to fly up to 162 miles off shore...Adding this addition will allow savings on fuel and flight time...Here is an example: TPA-HOU will save 209 gallons on fuel and 17 minutes of flight time...These routes will not be affected until the beginning of 2006...The vests will be installed during routine maintence checks...This Doesn't mean that Southwest will be flying to Hawaii, but definitely one step closer...

Kevin
 
IcemanT37
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:33 pm

I agree that flights from the mainland to Hawaii don't fit WN's style, but I'd think they'd jump at the chance to operate inter-island routes like Aloha and Hawaiian. Is the Hawaiian market already so saturated that it's not worth doing, or are there other reasons why mainland LCCs don't operate there?
 
ha763
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:30 pm

I doubt WN would want to even come close to the interisland market. The market has been shrinking for many years and continues to shrink due to more and more direct flights to the neighbor islands. This will not get any better with the proposed interisland ferry. Right now, both AQ and HA likely are losing money flying interisland. It has been this way for many years. Both HA and AQ had a short period in 2003/2004 where the interisland market was breakeven/slightly profitable.
 
SWAFA30
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:53 pm

I thought the reason WN never flew to Hawaii in the first place was that a lot of their rewards program people would use their free tickets to go to Hawaii, and that it wouldn't be profitable. If WN codeshares with TZ on the Hawaii routes wouldn't those routes not make as much money as they do now since so many people would be flying for free?

No. IIRC, even though WN/TZ have entered into a codeshare agreement, their respective FF programs will remain separate. WN RapidRewards members will only earn credit on WN operated flights and RR award tickets will only be redeemable on WN operated routes/flights.

[Edited 2005-01-05 07:55:31]
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:00 pm

Hawaii would be against their core strengths: short hauls, no meals, no special requirements for specific routes (ETOPS, rafts, etc.), super short turns at the gate.

WN is the best at what they do in their niche market and very smart operationally. As nice as Hawaii would be, it does not fit with their strategy.
 
efohdee
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:13 pm

An ETOPS Boeing 737? I think not. Southwest flying another type aircraft other than the 737 to get to Hawaii? Sure thing....
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:19 pm

An ETOPS Boeing 737? I think not. Southwest flying another type aircraft other than the 737 to get to Hawaii? Sure thing....

Are you forgetting all of the Aloha (AQ) 73G's that already fly Hawaii - US, or the CO 737s that are ETOPS'd? Nice try champ..

Steve
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Thrust
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:32 pm

WN's -700s are more than capable of flying 2,200 nautical miles. THey already do some transcontinental services in the US I believe. They could easily manage LAX-HNL. Plus the fact that so many are now equipped with winglets makes them all the more reliable. The -300 alone could manage LAX-HNL nonstop. As far as I know, all of WN's aircraft could operate the route. My question is could this mean WN might start service to HNL out of SJC in the future?
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United_fan
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:47 pm

You'de think WN could expand into Mexico ? With life vests,they could make a straight shot DAL-CUN . Does DAL have immigration facilities ?
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:51 pm

Aloha flies from SNA and OAK with 737-700's and has been for a while.
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A350
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:24 am

Why ETOPS? Who cares?

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A350
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:43 am

Seriously, I can well imagine WN flying to Hawaii. There are many holiday travelers which will like the low fares, WN already operates routes of that length successfully and they have proven to be competitive.

Concerning the ETOPS-issues, I think they can be solved. The 737-700s can be configured to ETOPS 180 and WN as an airline has a perfect safety record. Why shouldn't they get the certification?

A350
 
elcapi1980
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:56 am

Concerning the ETOPS-issues, I think they can be solved. The 737-700s can be configured to ETOPS 180 and WN as an airline has a perfect safety record. Why shouldn't they get the certification?

----------------------------------------------------------------
how do they configure any airplane to be ETOPS...what changes are made, anybody.....
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leelaw
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:25 am

Isn't one of the main reasons for WN's code share with TZ to gain some access to markets like Hawaii, EWR, DCA, LGA, Mexico, etc., without incurring the higher costs normally associated with servicing such destinations?
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OPNLguy
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:25 am

As far as SWA offering passengers a way to get to Hawaii, I think you're much more likely to see that as a result of a codeshare with ATA (or theoretically AQ/HA) before you'd ever see SWA physically operating scheduled flights to Hawaii. Not only are there cost issues related to ETOPS, but there are also still plenty of expansion opportunities within the contiguous 48 states that don't entail as much cost.

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:50 am

I think WN will be doing CODE SHARING for Hawaii markets and NOT having WN a/c flying.

Wn would have to spend millons on training the flight crews on over water operations...I just do not see them doing that.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:22 am

REPEAT...WN would be wiser to buy AQ...planes, counter space, people, ground equipment...it's already there. AQ is in chapter 11. Their board and creditors just might jump on that deal in a NEW YORK min...no, a Texas minute.
safe
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SWAFA30
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:42 am

Wn would have to spend millons on training the flight crews on over water operations...I just do not see them doing that.

Then there's the matter of ETOPs certifications and equipping aircraft with the necessary emergency equipment...the life vests alone won't cut it in the middle of the Pacific.

Finally, there's the question of yields. The moment SWA launched service to HNL using their own metal...Hawaii would become the number one destination for frequent flyer award ticketholders. Capacity controls could be implemented in an attempt to keep the flights profitable. However, one of the main selling points of RapidRewards is that almost any flight with an open seat is fair game for an award ticket holder. Modify that longstanding policy and you risk ticking off your most loyal Customers. Leave the policy unchanged and you're losing a ton of money flying planeloads of people to paradise who are flying of freebie tickets they earned flying BWI-PVD roundtrips. It's a no win situation.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:46 am

SWAFA30

Very well said!!! The "majors" if you will, have only so many "free seats" they give up especially on the HI flights, so WN could be open to major hurting in the HNL market.

I never thought about what Itsafe said about AQ.....interesting thought.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:54 am

>>>I never thought about what Itsafe said about AQ.....interesting thought.

That's not going to happen for the same reasons SWAFA30 mentioned. If SWA wouldn't enter such a low-yield market with its own aircraft, why would it acquire -more- aircraft from AQ to enter that low-yield market?

I know many folks are ga-ga about the idea about SWA flying its own aircraft to Hawaii, in part influenced by inaccurately titled news stories and what not, but I seriously doubt it's going to happen. It's far more likely to occur as codeshare seats to Hawaii, just like codeshare seats to LGA, DCA, and a few other places that SWA doesn't currently fly...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SWAFA30
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:01 am

I never thought about what Itsafe said about AQ.....interesting thought.

I'm guessing that whether WN grew the HI market "organically" or by purchasing AQ, the end result would be the same...Canyon Blue 73Gs criss-crossing the Pacific leaving trails of 20 dollar bills in their wake.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:05 am

>>>the end result would be the same...Canyon Blue 73Gs criss-crossing the Pacific leaving trails of 20 dollar bills in their wake.

I guess time will tell...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:08 am

Thanks OPNL, that makes alot of sense! WN is a very smart company with decisions, and HANLEY just does not make sense. (maybe right now)
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trijetfan1
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RE: Report: WN To Hawaii

Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:05 am

"You'de think WN could expand into Mexico ? With life vests,they could make a straight shot DAL-CUN . Does DAL have immigration facilities ?"

-I think very unlikely. This is because you cant get a 15-30 minute turn-around in Mexico. Plus it would cost too much and it wouldnt be worth that.
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