Whoa...where did this come from?
I thought we were discussing the UAL creditors opposition to the deal structered between UAL management and ALPA regarding the UAL pilots pension?
First, let me address the issue at hand. While I can understand the intent of management and ALPA to come to some agreement to soften the blow to the pilots (who are taking a disproportionately large hit from a wage/benefit perspective of all the employee groups), this agreement will be dead on arrival at the BK court. First, UAL management cannot give equity in trade for pension concessions, because they don't have it to give. The creditors who are the first in line to be paid once UAL is back up and running are the DIP financers, and since they hold the assets of the company as collateral for those loans, they are not going to agree to anything that gives away their position to recover their money should UA
default and be forced to liquidate.
This agreement is a little scary for two reasons. If UA
management actually believes they can get this agreement through the bankruptcy court and by the creditor committee, then I want the stuff they are smoking. It also makes me wonder if the reason they have not developed an exit strategy is that they don't have a plan....if they don't have a clue about what they are doing, how can they develop an exit strategy that they can effectively operate?
The situation at United may be worse than we all think. To consider offering the pilots equity in return for the pension is exactly what we did ten years ago with the ESOP program. Look where that got us? The pilots got the biggest piece of that pie (and also lost the most money when UA
I cannot believe they would go for this again....there must be some detail about this detail that is missing...
Now to this thread:
I have been very stauch in my support of UAL employees and exceptionally critical of UAL management. I have taken very strong positions regarding some of the actions of the employee groups, specifically the flight attendant union and CHAOS, which will serve noone...it will just hurt everyone; especially the flight attendants. However, to bash a group of employees because they (as a group) make more money than another, or to make another group of people feel as though they do not earn what they are paid is the same: Just plain poor manners. Even more, it is hurtful. There is no need for it.
Now is a time when we must come together, not tear each other apart.
I am with NWAFA. There is no reason you should have to leave the website. There are quite a lot of us who are well spoken and fair minded. We don't always agree, nor are we always right, but at least we try to offer an honest opinion about the subject of the day and (to the best of my ability) only take issue with people who take issue with me, or if some makes an attack without backing it up with facts.
As a pilot, you are responsible for the lives of the passengers under your charge every time you step on board an aircraft.
To those who thing this is akin to driving a bus, THINK AGAIN! Yes, events are relatively rare, but this is due to the excellent maintenance of the aircraft and the professionalism of the pilots and air traffic controllers in the skies and at the airports. These guys earn their pay every day for keeping us safe when we fly, but in that odd circumstance when something goes wrong, I know that they have been trained on that situation to the point in which their response is almost automatic. Not everyone can do this and they have worked for years to get to this position in their lives. To state that a pilot does not deserve what they get paid is operating from either incorrect information, or is being malicious in their statements.
There is NO excuse for behaving badly. Just because someone else does, it doesn't give you the right to act in the same way. Remember what goes around, comes around and depending how it goes out out, it will come back the same way.
Mm320Cap did not deserve what he got.
Please reconsider your decision regarding the forum. Should you leave, the forum would be a little worse off with your absense
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998