With regards to the A340-300 on short routes, surely they are simply using an aircraft that would otherwise be parked for the day to gain some revenue?
Consider the BA flights that arrive HKG at about 2pm and don't leave until 11pm.......they can't go anywhere but CX probably have the same problem but they can send the a/c out to some shorthaul destinations.
I've been on a CXA340 BKK-HKG.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Perhaps they are using the widebodies on the shorter routes so that flightcrew get more landings and take-off experience.
next flights : LHR-SOF BA, SOF-DOH-KAT QR, KAT-HKG KA, HKG-LHR VS, LHR-ATH-LHR BA, LHR-CDG-LHR AF, LHR-MAD-LHR IB/BA
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
When will CX announce their new long haul fleet orders? Last time I heard it will come along with the yearly result announcement.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
As far as I know, they're waiting to see what Boeing has to offer on the 747-400 Advanced. According to Flight, this is to happen later this year.
The current configuration calls for a 6'6" (78") stretch forward of the wing and a further 1.53m (5', or 60") aft of the wing. The 138", in CX layout is equivalent to around 2 rows of J class (100") and an extra Y class row, bringing capacity - based on a current configuration to around 415.
Now, maybe it's just me, but that hardly seems worth the wait. With the way Asian traffic is going (and yes, I know there could always be natural disasters, SARS type crises and economic problems to derail things), but assuming CX is focused on growing its business, surely a combination of A380s and A340-600s is the best option.
The current configuration calls for a 6'6" (78") stretch forward of the wing and a further 1.53m (5', or 60") aft of the wing. The 138", in CX layout is equivalent to around 2 rows of J class (100") and an extra Y class row, bringing capacity - based on a current configuration to around 415.
Now, maybe it's just me, but that hardly seems worth the wait. With the way Asian traffic is going (and yes, I know there could always be natural disasters, SARS type crises and economic problems to derail things), but assuming CX is focused on growing its business, surely a combination of A380s and A340-600s is the best option.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
...their less-than-charming experience with their first two A346s might cause them to think otherwise.
I dunno. As you said, they are opposed to the transpac etops thing, and the 380t 346 will offer a bit more range than the 773ER anyhoo.
They're used to the frames they have, the third one has worked out well for them, I don't see why they would change at this point.
I would, however, imagine they'd want to wait for the 380t 346 to fly before giving it a shot.
N
I dunno. As you said, they are opposed to the transpac etops thing, and the 380t 346 will offer a bit more range than the 773ER anyhoo.
They're used to the frames they have, the third one has worked out well for them, I don't see why they would change at this point.
I would, however, imagine they'd want to wait for the 380t 346 to fly before giving it a shot.
N
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
and the 380t 346 will offer a bit more range than the 773ER anyhoo.
Allegedly.
Allegedly.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
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- The Coachman
- Posts: 1193
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
I think Concorde, we might all have to adopt the CX policy of "wait and see" 
Personally I can see CX waiting until the A340-600HGW performs and hopefully Boeing will have come out with their B747ADV concept before making their decision. The problem, as Kaitak has pointed out, is that the stretch hardly seems to be worth waiting for. If CX want to do a BA and increase numbers of premium pax (as that's where they are really performing well at the moment) then a simple B747ADV stretch is really nothing. Only adds 14 J class seats. Might as well just reconfigure more of their existing B747-400's to their current premium 12F/65J/268Y configuration (they only have 4 of this config at the moment).
Personally I think the A380/A346HGW fit is better (dependent on the 346HGW being able to deliver what Airbus promises). CX of course has their 4 engines for trans-oceanic flights so the B773ER which may be a better fit for them in a way probably won't be an option.
RE: A343's on short-haul, I forgot about keeping the pilots current...
Personally I can see CX waiting until the A340-600HGW performs and hopefully Boeing will have come out with their B747ADV concept before making their decision. The problem, as Kaitak has pointed out, is that the stretch hardly seems to be worth waiting for. If CX want to do a BA and increase numbers of premium pax (as that's where they are really performing well at the moment) then a simple B747ADV stretch is really nothing. Only adds 14 J class seats. Might as well just reconfigure more of their existing B747-400's to their current premium 12F/65J/268Y configuration (they only have 4 of this config at the moment).
Personally I think the A380/A346HGW fit is better (dependent on the 346HGW being able to deliver what Airbus promises). CX of course has their 4 engines for trans-oceanic flights so the B773ER which may be a better fit for them in a way probably won't be an option.
RE: A343's on short-haul, I forgot about keeping the pilots current...
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
The A340-600 has now settled into the fleet and I think management are more happy with them. There has been no more talk of them being returned after the initial leases. Recently there was an engine maintenance deal signed for the next 5 years on those things, so it looks like they're here to stay.
As for the A380, recently the DFO mentioned that "until Airbus can provide assurances that it can do LAX-HKG all year round fully unrestricted then it is not the aircraft for us." However, the 744 cannot do it unrestricted either, so not sure if he really means it or not. Depends how large the restrictions are, I guess.
As for the A380, recently the DFO mentioned that "until Airbus can provide assurances that it can do LAX-HKG all year round fully unrestricted then it is not the aircraft for us." However, the 744 cannot do it unrestricted either, so not sure if he really means it or not. Depends how large the restrictions are, I guess.
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- dynkrisolo
- Posts: 1849
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
As you said, they are opposed to the transpac etops thing, and the 380t 346 will offer a bit more range than the 773ER anyhoo.
Not according to the latest Boeing number. Boeing has updated the range of the 773er to 7,940nm, up from 7,880nm. The 380t 346 will have a range of 7,900nm.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
This has gotten very reminiscent of Intel vs. AMD in 1999 and 2000, hasn't it. 
N
N
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
According to another forum at airwise.com...CX is looking at starting flights to TEHRAN-THR soon??? Any update on this development?
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
From :
http://forum.airwise.com/forum/showthread.php?s=17d049849eedaf50c740f4f564ad4f1f&threadid=6038
- 2X daily flights to SFO
- 3X daily flights to LAX
- possible 4 X daily to LHR
- possible service to MAN
- operations to MOW
- rumours exist that MUC may come online
- increased operations to the Middle East with extra flights to DXB and the possible introduction of THR and the reintroduction of svce to IST
- XMN flights are a definite go for 28 Feb 05
- additional sectors to most Asian cities we already serve
Australia is doing some fantastic business for CX these days so there
may be some increased services there as well.
http://forum.airwise.com/forum/showthread.php?s=17d049849eedaf50c740f4f564ad4f1f&threadid=6038
- 2X daily flights to SFO
- 3X daily flights to LAX
- possible 4 X daily to LHR
- possible service to MAN
- operations to MOW
- rumours exist that MUC may come online
- increased operations to the Middle East with extra flights to DXB and the possible introduction of THR and the reintroduction of svce to IST
- XMN flights are a definite go for 28 Feb 05
- additional sectors to most Asian cities we already serve
Australia is doing some fantastic business for CX these days so there
may be some increased services there as well.
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Boeing has updated the range of the 773er to 7,940nm
How come they refuse to change their stats/charts?
It's not like them to take long with this at all.
How come they refuse to change their stats/charts?
It's not like them to take long with this at all.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Australia is doing some fantastic business for CX these days so there
may be some increased services there as well.
That's because Australians put quality/vaule for money ahead of 'patriotism'. I know more people who state they prefer to fly EK, SQ and CX Oz-Europe than QF. Yet QF is full also. Just a VERY mobile population (15% of the nation travel intercontinentally annually).
Ozglobal
may be some increased services there as well.
That's because Australians put quality/vaule for money ahead of 'patriotism'. I know more people who state they prefer to fly EK, SQ and CX Oz-Europe than QF. Yet QF is full also. Just a VERY mobile population (15% of the nation travel intercontinentally annually).
Ozglobal
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
CX have also added an extra service on sundays from Perth starting this april, to bad it's with the inferior regional A330 product in business class.
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- The Coachman
- Posts: 1193
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
You PER people don't need a proper J class :P (just kidding). It's more like you don't have enough demand for an F class. And neither does BNE.
They only have 5 x 3-class A330's and 3 of them operate SYD-HKG daily and vv alone with a rotation to DXB in conjunction with the MEL-HKG (which is 2 more 3-class A330's) as well I think.
So, sorry PER, you'll have to petition CX to let you have one of "our" birds
CX100 is often operated by an A340-300 (34C) nowadays, however.
They only have 5 x 3-class A330's and 3 of them operate SYD-HKG daily and vv alone with a rotation to DXB in conjunction with the MEL-HKG (which is 2 more 3-class A330's) as well I think.
So, sorry PER, you'll have to petition CX to let you have one of "our" birds
CX100 is often operated by an A340-300 (34C) nowadays, however.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
no matter, we'll just take QF and fly on the skybed instead! easy come-easy go. it is quite amazing that CX don't have a product in J class equal to that of the international fleet, why would you fly CX to HKG with this outdated product when you can fly QF for the first 8hrs of your journey and get value for money.
i know if i was paying big $$ for a premium ticket to LHR via HKG i'd take QF, purely because i'd be assured of having a product worthy of my money. another interesting note, i see SQ sends the 772ER that do Europe runs to Malaysia, these are space bed equipped and used on 1hr flights, they could be directed to ports like ADL, Per or BNE, instead it's the worn out 2 class regional product as usual.
anyways, just my opinion, if your spending big $$ you want damn fine products and until CX update the product for Perth i won't fly them.
it is quite amazing that CX don't have a product in J class equal to that of the international fleet, why would you fly CX to HKG with this outdated product when you can fly QF for the first 8hrs of your journey and get value for money.
i know if i was paying big $$ for a premium ticket to LHR via HKG i'd take QF, purely because i'd be assured of having a product worthy of my money. another interesting note, i see SQ sends the 772ER that do Europe runs to Malaysia, these are space bed equipped and used on 1hr flights, they could be directed to ports like ADL, Per or BNE, instead it's the worn out 2 class regional product as usual.
anyways, just my opinion, if your spending big $$ you want damn fine products and until CX update the product for Perth i won't fly them.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Seems Atlanta and Dallas are set to join the cargo network later this year as well.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
"i know if i was paying big $$ for a premium ticket to LHR via HKG i'd take QF."
Yes but then if you wanted to fly to Paris, Rome or Amsterdam direct you would take CX and forget about connecting at LHR far an extra hour or few of backwards flying. That's the problem with QF and Europe, they only fly to London & Frankfurt in their own right and Australians end up in far more places than that. Hence why CX, EK & SQ do such a roaring trade out of here.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Agree about the regional product to PER, DXB and BNE - for 8 hours flight operating a dated 45" J class product is DISGRACEFUL. Either the CX Australian Gen Manager is not doing his job or CX in HK aren't listening.
There is nothing stopping CX reconfiguring three or four of its current two-class 330s (say HLT, HLU, HLV and some of the new 330s arriving this year) into a two-class long-haul config like the 34D (30 NBC seats in Zone A and the rest Y). I can't imagine BNE/PER/DXB etc regularly get up to the 44 seat J cabin currently in the regional product.
Voila, everyone's happy.
There is nothing stopping CX reconfiguring three or four of its current two-class 330s (say HLT, HLU, HLV and some of the new 330s arriving this year) into a two-class long-haul config like the 34D (30 NBC seats in Zone A and the rest Y). I can't imagine BNE/PER/DXB etc regularly get up to the 44 seat J cabin currently in the regional product.
Voila, everyone's happy.
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- iowa744fan
- Posts: 906
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Hi,
A quick question about the pax 744s that CX is getting from SQ. Will they be flown on specific routes? Or will the interiors be adjusted to match the remainder of the CX fleet and then be intermixed with the RR powered 744s?
A quick question about the pax 744s that CX is getting from SQ. Will they be flown on specific routes? Or will the interiors be adjusted to match the remainder of the CX fleet and then be intermixed with the RR powered 744s?
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
There are only a few certain characters in CX against oceanic ETOPS.
That's certainly good to hear.... but what sorta pull do they have?
They need 2 Retire these Dinosaurs (Aircraft and Managers), CO Has flown HKG-EWR for Years...
That's certainly good to hear.... but what sorta pull do they have?
They need 2 Retire these Dinosaurs (Aircraft and Managers), CO Has flown HKG-EWR for Years...
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
>They want to make DFW, their gateway into the Latin / Central America market.<
What is the point when they already have 2 744s going to LAX every day with similar Latin American connections?
>They need 2 Retire these Dinosaurs (Aircraft and Managers), <
Managers yes, but aircraft? Their oldest planes are 744s and those still do their job well enough that they are buying them on the used market.
What is the point when they already have 2 744s going to LAX every day with similar Latin American connections?
>They need 2 Retire these Dinosaurs (Aircraft and Managers), <
Managers yes, but aircraft? Their oldest planes are 744s and those still do their job well enough that they are buying them on the used market.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
There is nothing stopping CX reconfiguring three or four of its current two-class 330s (say HLT, HLU, HLV and some of the new 330s arriving this year) into a two-class long-haul config like the 34D (30 NBC seats in Zone A and the rest Y). I can't imagine BNE/PER/DXB etc regularly get up to the 44 seat J cabin currently in the regional product.
-------------------------------------------------
So CX is reconiguring some 330 into two class with new long haul business class?? When did they so this and which route will they flying?
-------------------------------------------------
So CX is reconiguring some 330 into two class with new long haul business class?? When did they so this and which route will they flying?
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
So CX is reconiguring some 330 into two class with new long haul business class?? When did they so this and which route will they flying?
No that is not what was meant, all that was stated is that there is nothing stopping CX from doing so, so that they will have the latest long haul J class on routes like BNE, DXB, PER. But as it stands these 8hr plus flights recieve CX's regional J class configured aircraft and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
No that is not what was meant, all that was stated is that there is nothing stopping CX from doing so, so that they will have the latest long haul J class on routes like BNE, DXB, PER. But as it stands these 8hr plus flights recieve CX's regional J class configured aircraft and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
lowa744fan,
Yes, the SQ planes will be reconfigured with the CX interiors. What CX will do is that when one of their own RR-powered 744s gets converted to freighter, the interior will be tranplanted to the SQ PW-powered 744s.
Yes, the SQ planes will be reconfigured with the CX interiors. What CX will do is that when one of their own RR-powered 744s gets converted to freighter, the interior will be tranplanted to the SQ PW-powered 744s.
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- CXoneworld
- Posts: 312
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Australia is doing some fantastic business for these days so there
may be some increased services there as well.
There will be an artificial limit to Cathay's expansion Down Under. Until 2006, the Australian/Hong Kong air service pacts will only allow for 55 flights per week between the two regions.
As for now, Cathay has already used up 52, and I have the feeling that the remaining 3 will be grabbed up by Dragonair, which is to start a SYD service this N. Hemisphere summer or autumn.
may be some increased services there as well.
There will be an artificial limit to Cathay's expansion Down Under. Until 2006, the Australian/Hong Kong air service pacts will only allow for 55 flights per week between the two regions.
As for now, Cathay has already used up 52, and I have the feeling that the remaining 3 will be grabbed up by Dragonair, which is to start a SYD service this N. Hemisphere summer or autumn.
oneworld alliance revolves around you
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
What do you think the chances of CX expanding into Ireland are. Hong Kong and Ireland have recently signed an agreement to allow people from each country to go to the other on a one year working holiday visa. Then there is the fact that both EI and CX are in OneWorld and EI have made it clear that they wish to expand into Asia, though they seem to be unable to decide where
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
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- QantasHeavy
- Posts: 277
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
DFW has long been a desired destination for CX and QF, given the large quantity of American Airlines connections. A morning arrival into DFW would give a One World partner a huge assortment of one-change (DFW) destinations.
The issue has been, as noted, the ability to carry a good cargo/passenger load. The new terminal at DFW will likely give strong incentives to come there.
I am betting CX and SQ will drop their 346 (CX) and 345 (SQ) fleets in favor of the 777LR within a few years. I would bet SA will then pick those 340s up from them. The fuel market may drive CX to re-think ETOPS.
The issue has been, as noted, the ability to carry a good cargo/passenger load. The new terminal at DFW will likely give strong incentives to come there.
I am betting CX and SQ will drop their 346 (CX) and 345 (SQ) fleets in favor of the 777LR within a few years. I would bet SA will then pick those 340s up from them. The fuel market may drive CX to re-think ETOPS.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
To EIRules: CX will only codeshare with BA via LHR to DUB. There is not enough direct traffic HKG-DUB to justify a direct flight.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
I've heard from a mate of mine who works for Cathay that they would like to add a third daily service from Melbourne by the end of 2005.
However if the air services pact doesn't allow for that currently then I guess they might add those flights with the signing of a new pact?
BZF
However if the air services pact doesn't allow for that currently then I guess they might add those flights with the signing of a new pact?
BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
Thank you NBT that was indeed just me speculating about what CX COULD do... as opposed to what they're not doing.
I understand CX have just signed a 5 year engine servicing agreement for the 346s though, so it sounds like they're around to stay for a little while longer at least.
I understand CX have just signed a 5 year engine servicing agreement for the 346s though, so it sounds like they're around to stay for a little while longer at least.
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
With new aircraft coming on line in 2005, I hope that CX will introduce the 333 to PER and BNE eventually. C'mon Perth and Brisbane based Marco Polo members.. write to your Sales Offices!
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
I would be very doubtful of CX to DFW, given the checkered history of DFW in the international carrier business.
Many have come, and many have left....
On an earlier thread, Concordeboy educated me (and probably others) on the reasons for DFW's lack of international carriers. Those reasons resonate with this thread regarding CX.
Many have come, and many have left....
On an earlier thread, Concordeboy educated me (and probably others) on the reasons for DFW's lack of international carriers. Those reasons resonate with this thread regarding CX.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
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- QantasHeavy
- Posts: 277
- Joined:
RE: Cathay Pacific New Routes & Growth
The trick to DFW is getting into the American Airlines network -- not trying to compete with it. Feed AA, you'll do OK.
AA is not in a position to fly to HKG, and the One World connections via NRT are not very good. OK a few code shares, but out of network flights.
HKG would provide better access to Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia... not to mention Southern China.
Who has run off from DFW long-haul:
Delta (FRA) -- AA and Lufthansa stayed in, market would not support 3
Air NZ -- AA opened DFW-HNL-AKL/SYD
Thai -- Northwest Orient opened DFW-SFO-NRT
NWA -- AA gots some 747SPs and opened DFW-NRT n/s
Sabena -- bankrupt
Air France -- DL partner, after 9-11 not enought demand... AA puts (sometimes double daily) 777s on CDG route
JAL -- 9-11 happens, then AA opens DFW-KIX and then goes double daily DFW-NRT... all code sharing with AA
(British Caledonian was acquired by BA, so that doesn't count)
Qantas and Cathay would fit into the model at DFW the way they do at LAX.
AA is not in a position to fly to HKG, and the One World connections via NRT are not very good. OK a few code shares, but out of network flights.
HKG would provide better access to Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia... not to mention Southern China.
Who has run off from DFW long-haul:
Delta (FRA) -- AA and Lufthansa stayed in, market would not support 3
Air NZ -- AA opened DFW-HNL-AKL/SYD
Thai -- Northwest Orient opened DFW-SFO-NRT
NWA -- AA gots some 747SPs and opened DFW-NRT n/s
Sabena -- bankrupt
Air France -- DL partner, after 9-11 not enought demand... AA puts (sometimes double daily) 777s on CDG route
JAL -- 9-11 happens, then AA opens DFW-KIX and then goes double daily DFW-NRT... all code sharing with AA
(British Caledonian was acquired by BA, so that doesn't count)
Qantas and Cathay would fit into the model at DFW the way they do at LAX.
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