Boeing757/767
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ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:22 am

Well, Ch. 11 and competition from NW has taken its toll:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050126/nyw187_1.html
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:26 am

I never thought I'd see the words "fierce competition" and "Indiana" in the same sentence!  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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AirT85
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:28 am

Is this the end of Chicago Express Airlines?

-Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:31 am

Looks like nothing will be left of Chicago Express.....

Hopefully Georgie is still raking in in excess of $40,000 a month. Oh btw....ATA reservations is going to hell in a handbasket quickly. Here in DAY we already have had quite a few passengers show up with reservations through Indy.....the pax weren't contacted, rebooked, refunded....nothing. See ya ATA!

Chris
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stlgph
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:34 am

Well, what a sad thing, but not surprising. I am a bit surprised about the discontinuance of Phoenix and St. Petersburg, though. If US Airways goes under, I'm sure they'll be bringing back services, but until then, probably don't count on it, not for a few years at least...even if then.

Can't say they didn't make an attempt to do good. Best of luck to the soon to be former employees.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
TWFirst
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:36 am

So it looks now as if ATA will operate primarily out of MDW after all, providing flights to markets out of MDW that WN won't go into (MSP, LGA, etc.).
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
stlgph
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:39 am

Wonder if Southwest bumps up its Indianapolis flight schedule to........Phoenix, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, etc. etc.

if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
airstatdfw
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:45 am

That is weird they are cutting service to DFW. They just added a 3rd flight to IND earlier this month. I guess they will lose that new gate they just got in Term B. Well I will still enjoy the ATA 738 when it flies in.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

AirStatDFW

[Edited 2005-01-26 23:46:26]
 
stlgph
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:49 am

Speaking of DFW...cash in on the $22 million in incentives and just move there. Quick, before AirTran moves in!

:D
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:51 am

Kind of funny, I saw an earlier thread asking about the status of how Chicago Express was doing in IND, well guess that might be an answer. I don't think it is total doom and at least they are being proactive to fix things.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
Fly_ATA
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:00 am

I fear the end is near for ATA !
 
ouboy79
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:12 am

Back to charter service with you...bad, bad TZ!  Smile

Such a shame how this company has also destroyed another good regional concept that has been around for over 10 years.
 
F9HNLPLZ
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:20 am

I fear the end is near for ATA !

I bet not. ATA has a lot of service to Hawaii or planned service. Also, don't they service Mexico quite a bit as well? What about also the military charters?
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
i15846375
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:21 am

Looks like the end of ATA, and I was looking forward to flying out of GYY and connecting in Ind. What I don't understand is how Northwest, losing money, can still expand and yet bleed their employees at the same time, strange business. ATA should have owned the Ind market, they are so supportive there with any home town business.
 
Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:23 am

Everybody should read docket #1070. Very interesting reading....not sure if it holds any water...but it does bring forward some interesting accusations about the financial dealings with Chicago Express and ATA Airlines. Also, an ammended Key Employee Retention Program was thrown at the judge within the past few days. Seems ol' Georgie has seconds thoughts on not participating in the program. 49 key executives have been targeted totaling $2,470,000. Simply amazing I tell you. I hate to say it......but ATA is going down the drain rapidly.

BTW.....it looks like NatTel is going for ATA's throat in regard to Chicago Express. When their offer was first made I thought it was absurd...as everybody else here thought. But I think NatTel might have a case...

http://docs.bmccorp.net/ATA/docs/insb_1-04-bk-19866_1279.pdf

Chris

[Edited 2005-01-27 00:50:55]
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Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:30 am

I'm not so sure NWA is the major player in today's announcement. I'm sure they contributed but they aren't the nail in the coffin. ATA will be dropping to at least 18 737-800's.....dropping at least 8 757-300's....and who knows the count on the 757-200's. How was ATA going to operate all the routes planned with this number of aircraft??? I will assume that the Indy ops would have only increased if the FL deal would have went through....

Chris
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legend11
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:34 am

Not surprised at all at this development. George always struck me a mercurial type of personality, and it would seem that reality has finally caught up with the types of business practices of the past. I was there until right after 09/11, and the way the decisions were made on which employees to lay off were certainly not up to any professional par that I have ever seen. They are cutting back service out of the Midway Hub, and reducing service in Indianapolis, after all the promises recently made for the Indy market. Sure seem like ATA's survival IS a key issue now. They cannot survive on just the charter and AMC business, because World Airways has a better lock on the business, just because performance is a factor in who gets contract awards.
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:38 am

Wow. I never saw this coming. Given the way they hacked their MDW schedule and now this will there be anything really left of them? I'd look for a major service expansion press release to come from one of two sources. NW or FL. This move by TZ should free up 6 gates. If NW picks up the slack they'll be able to take over all of concourse C. Its kind of sad to see the local company go down like that but maybe someone will step in and pick up the slack.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:39 am

It's funny......Gary Marsh.....the President of Chicago Express Airlines stated to us here in DAY "Evansville stepped up to the plate financially!" Well Evansville and the state of Indiana.......you just got served. I'm sorry to say to the rest of the ATA folks that their time is coming soon as well. Jump ship before you drown.

Chris
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N905TW
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:57 am

Hey Chris,

Are you guys still operating down there in DAY? I left a few weeks ago and wasn't sure about your station. So sad to hear the news today... it was bad enough when I heard that DAY was on the way out, let alone the entire CEX network... What a waste of a good airline.

Thanks again for all the hard work you guys did down there... DAY was one of the best stations... though I don't need to tell you that!
 
ATAIndy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:05 am

WOW!! ATA cut 29 of its 36 destinations out of IND. Didn't see that coming. And they are now down to 4 nonstops.
Boiler up!
 
Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:07 am

Hey Alex.....

DAY is done next Monday the 31st. I'll miss all the fun I've had with my co-workers and nice flight crews such as yourself. It's good you left when you did. But alas I have to put my college degree to work now....been trying to be a bum as long as possible.

You can honestly see things fall apart at the seems right before your eyes...which like you said is sad to see. ATA really sucked the life out of C8....I'm not so sure there were some really shady deals done behind closed doors.

email me anytime at [email protected] and good luck to you in the future!

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:18 am

There is something very suspicious with all this. I was very suspicious of the deal with WN and now TZ basically ends service to a market where it was successful. Unless perhaps TZ saw the writing on the wall and knew NW wasn't going to back down until they were finished. Wow. I cant say that enough.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
LambertMan
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:25 am

I'm waiting for the proverbial "Good, this move frees up room for a new megahub for NW."

Sorry to hear this guys, that two headed-competition would have been nice if it would have lasted longer.
 
sprxUSA
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:15 am

Actually, I'll bet NW will somehow find the "market conditions soften" ,therefore not expand as much from IND now. Imagine that.

I think the only way GYY will have an airline for more than 10 minutes will be invest in their own plane. Maybe GYY, FWA, SBN, EVV or anyone else get a EM2 and start their own line. I see SkyWest will have 5 up for sale soon.

Too bad for all the folks at TZ and the locals in Indiana to get screwed over after all that TZ said they were going to do.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:19 am

So this basically marks the end of the #1 carrier in IND. #3 US isn't too far behind. This could eventually transform a market that had ample choices into a market dominated by a single carrier.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
B757capt
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:32 am

Easy....... GYY already does have 1 airline, but... I do agree that they might not see another for quite sometime. What a shame I was looking forward to working with those folks at GYY. They were installing computers and etc today when they heared around 2pm local.

The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:38 am

>>>I'm not so sure NWA is the major player in today's announcement.

Saw this on another board, was sent to TZ employees...

".....a competitor airline began a campaign
that resulted in Indianapolis becoming unaffordable for ATA. For instance:
• Service was added to every ATA nonstop jet route except San Francisco
• Schedules were matched to reduce ATA traffic - in the IND-DFW market, all 3 daily ATA
flights were matched with competing flights departing within 20 minutes
• Fare structures were reduced in all leisure markets
• Funded an advertising campaign that ATA could not match
ATA tried to compete in Indianapolis by matching fares, offering web specials, and implementing new pricing strategies. However, our percent of seats filled in January on Indianapolis flights is expected to be only 62%, and still more flights will be added by the competition. Simply put, the new competition is forcing ATA to lose money every day in Indianapolis. We have better aircraft, friendly, experienced Employees, loyal Customers and a great product. But, ATA does not have enough resources to wait for market conditions to improve."
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:46 am

Why not pull a Midway and move to another airport.. STL has some open gates and not that far of a move?? If not STL.. how about STL-esque.. and move to Mid-Continent/Mid-America.. whatever it is called.. use it as a strictly connecting hub
Aiming High and going far..
 
timberwolf24
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:51 am

I also read that 7 of ATA's 757-200s will be auctioned off on Feb. 17. It stated that a/c 515AT and 523AT-528AT are the aircraft on the block. If true not a good sign at all.
I was giving ATA at least the summer but with this how long can or will they survive.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:05 am

One might think that NW might just sit back and enjoy what they did to TZ but with FL coming to down I would guess they would snatch up as many of TZ's gates as possible. You don't want a healthy FL coming in and setting up shop if you want to dominate the region. FL has the resources to play the game.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
nwafflyer
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:12 am

What about Chicago Express out of FNT?
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:14 am

Is FNT Flint? If so it is history as well. 4 non-stop flights is all that will be left by April 10th. TZ may very well have alienated the people of Indianapolis by then that they might as well go ahead and get rid of those flights as well.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
nwafflyer
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:18 am

yes, fnt is flint - and ATA has offered the only direct Chicago flight out of FNT (although, from a time perspective, tis better to fly FNT/DTW/ORD than FNT to Midway, and then drive
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:24 am

Oh I don't know about service from FNT to MDW. Just know the service to IND is history.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
leelaw
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:24 am

TZ must be planning to increase MDW-LGA service now that the slots allocated to IND service are available?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
burnsie28
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:26 am

Yeah its all NW's fault, even though the study which was announced even before ATA was having problems came out. Second IND has the 2nd highest (outside of the major hub cities) with the most frequent flyers. Second, NW competes with ATA on a few routes, but even NW has said that they cant match the fares set fourth by a "low cost competitor" on those routes, so ATA cant blame NW there.
 
MAH4546
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 am

Oh I don't know about service from FNT to MDW. Just know the service to IND is history.

MDW-FNT is history too.
a.
 
nwafflyer
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 am

There never was service from FNT to IND -- only through MDW --
 
Indy
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:33 am

Maybe it was one of the routes that was supposed to start next month if it hadn't already started. But it was certainly on the list of flights to be in service by spring.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
nwafflyer
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:36 am

Well, take your pick -- fly a SAAB from FNT to MDW, and then fly to IND -- (and look at the layover times), or fly NWA from FNT to DTW, then DTW to IND -- just take your choice there, to a business traveller, there's no choice -- a tourist would drive, because IND is about a 6 hour drive from FNT
 
quickmover
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:37 am

Southwest might end up owning the whole thing in the end. If TZ goes out WN still holds that 27% stake that basically is enough to dictate direction. WN might end up with all of the MDW gates in the end.
 
MAH4546
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:37 am

There never was service from FNT to IND -- only through MDW --

ATA launches IND-FNT next week, 4 Feburary 2004. They will then discontinue it on 28 March 2004.
a.
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:40 am

Oh my, and what is the price of a 5 day advance ticket? I suspect they can't keep up with NWA -- especially if the flight is another SAAB operated by Chicago express
 
Skyway1
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:03 pm

OPNLguy.....

Smoke and mirrors my friend! I do agree NWA had something to do with today's decision(it's also an easy out for ATA)....but it's not the "nail in the coffin." Something is going on behind closed doors I'm sure. Who knows if the repo man is coming or not....but something is going on.

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
WMUPilot
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:04 pm

Chicago Express will be shutting down as of March 28th. This comes directly from the flight operations info line.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
JetService
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:39 pm

I think the only way GYY will have an airline for more than 10 minutes will be invest in their own plane. Maybe GYY, FWA, SBN, EVV or anyone else get a EM2 and start their own line. I see SkyWest will have 5 up for sale soon.


I always wondered if this type of business model would fly (HAR!), but with RJs and a few 100 seaters. Create a locally based airline that serves one market consisting of flights to nearby major hubs working deals with the respective airlines at the hubs for other destinations. And of course a few select business and leisure non-stops that would be prudent to that market.
"Shaddap you!"
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:52 pm

This is a very fishy move. ATA may as well move to another city now, they have been beat on their own home turf. ATA is no longer in south florida at all from any market (stupid!) and they can not connect people from NYC to FL cities or even LAX. Keeping 2 flight from NYC to IND may have worked for connection to LAS and LAX. Did Independence air have anything to do with this as well?

ATA can really only remain stable in MDW because competition is kept at bay because MDW is out of space. It is a shame that ATA is taking such a beating. I hope it is not too late for things to change the tides.
 
ZID
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:33 am

RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:53 pm

Yep, the Northwest competition and the Southwest takeover were the end for this great airline. I don't care so much about ATA per se, but this does screw my hometown of Indianapolis. So for that I'm pissed.

Northwest. Southwest. A pox upon both your houses!
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
LV
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: ATA Scales Back At IND

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:55 pm

JetService,
Actually, there was an airline that tried that exact thing. Ozark 2 (or was it three) based out of COU to DFW and MDW...to connect to AA. The idea was to get all the spoiled little rich kids at Mizzou from Chicago and the Metroplex. Chicago supplies more students to Mizzou than KC (even though it is a state school) and Dallas is catching up. And yes, a lot of those kids were spoiled....

Of course, AA jetsoned that agreement just like they jetsoned the JI agreement.

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