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kalakaua
Topic Author
Posts: 1430
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LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:06 pm

Dreamy future for LOT?

From Warsaw Business Journal
by John Todd
31 January 2005

Poland's national airline is running out of time to be the first to fly Boeing's new Dreamliner jet.

LOT is in danger of missing the deadline for reserving the prime 7E7 Dreamliner production slot unless it makes up its mind soon.
---
At the moment, LOT is weighing up whether to replace its ageing fleet of Boeing 767s with the Airbus A330 or the new 7E7-which would make it one of the first in the world to fly the new jet. The contract is expected to be worth around z³.1.5 billion.
---
The airline initially indicated it would reveal which company had won the contract at the end of last year. It postponed the decision until early January but no decision has yet been announced.
---
"Typically when you are part of the launch team of a Boeing aircraft we have a lot of support, with training and so forth."


Entire article:
http://www.wbj.pl/?command=article&id=25485&type=wbjhttp://www.wbj.pl/?command=article&id=25485&type=wbj

[Edited 2005-02-01 08:06:53]
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LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:12 pm

I am so praying it will be the 787..Horrid thing to see an Airbus in LOT colors.
 
Flightlover
Posts: 318
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:04 pm

It would be VERY COOL to see an airline from Eastern Europe like LOT flying the 787. I would pay any money to hop on it in Warsaw and give it a try.
 
777ER
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:05 pm

Does anyone have any info on which way LOT is turning?
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Zweed
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:35 pm

since they just became EU members....
I'd put my money on airbus
 
A350
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:53 pm

The customer has the choice. Neither they are in a hurry to get the 787, it will be build for many years to come, nor are they obliged to buy the A350 since they are an EU member. France is an EU member and Air France operates tons of 777s. Concerning the price, there is no monopoly. If one of them doesn't offer a reasonable price, LOT can buy at the competition. They will just buy what and when it fits best to their plans.

A350
 
Orion737
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:04 pm

AF only gets away with operating the 777 as they already operate large fleets of Airbus aircraft of nearly every Airbus type!

Also France as a founder and large mamber of the EU has a little less pressure than LOT will face if it decides to order Boeing!
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:23 pm

EU members that operate Boeing airliners:

Air France
Lufthansa
Alitalia
British Airways
KLM
and so on...


US airlines with Airbus:

NW
jetBlue
American Airlines
US Air
United Airlines
and so on...

So where's the problem?
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:35 pm

Horrid thing to see an Airbus in LOT colors.

Right! I think the CEO's of LOT will make their decision based on which plane their livery looks best on! Big grin

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:34 pm

There is no relation between EU membership and buying Airbus. LOT is a company and can what ever they want.

But if a state owned company buys an competitor from abroad, this could make other Airbus counties a little bit upset. And making Chirac, Zappatero, Blair, Schröder upset doens't helpt you to negotiate big EU subsidies for your agricultural sector.

As Poland bought the US biult military aircraft they had hoped for lifting visa requirements by the USA. Maybe this time Poland might be more willing to try if the EU is more willing to honour their buying policy.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:41 pm

I hope they go with the 787. They must have 2 very competitive proposals to deal with and consider. I am also sure they are recieving significant political pressure from both sides of the pond.
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codeshare
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:40 am

Well, good news for you Boeing lovers is that for the summer season or maybe longer LOT is planning to take on a 6th 767. It will be leased, but from where it is unknown yet.

How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
milan320
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:34 am

I'm wondering how accurate the aritcle is. It was mentioned by a boeing spokesperson last year in another article that if LOT didn't put in an order by Dec. 2004 they would miss out on the first slots.
Personally, I hope they buy the A330 or A350. And since LOT is 67% owned by the government, the Polish gov't isn't too happy with the US planned offset investments following the F-16 deal, I could see LOT going with Airbus. Political, sure, but it happens all the time, all over the place.

Furthermore, I'm wondering what kind of deal Boeing could give LOT. Boeing is not known to give good deals, and LOT needs a good deal these days.

Edit: I should add that the Warsaw Business Journal is usually quite delayed with their news, etc. at least that's what I have noticed from reading it. The Polish dailies are a lot more accurate and the tidbit about the Boeing spokesperson was in RP I believe (a Polish daily newspaper) last year.

/Milan320

[Edited 2005-02-01 18:41:13]
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BlueSky1976
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:50 am

Good news for 787 fanatics is: LOT's choice WAS, I repeat: WAS 787. They had a contract on the table ready to be signed, but then union representatives in the management raised hell for LOT buying new planes instead of giving their employees payraises. So from there on the entire thing is hanging in the air.

Source: Polish usenet discussion group, pl.rec.lotnictwo - there was a post about the whole situation back in December I believe. There is a few LOT employees posting there.

The queen of the skies is dead.
 
milan320
Posts: 821
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:00 pm

Good news for 787 fanatics is: LOT's choice WAS, I repeat: WAS 787. They had a contract on the table ready to be signed, but then union representatives in the management raised hell for LOT buying new planes instead of giving their employees payraises. So from there on the entire thing is hanging in the air.


Not exactly true. The Pilot's union wanted Boeing, since that's what LOT has right now and they figured that it would be logical for them to continue with Boeing, however, management was leaning towards Airbus. Then the whole thing ended up being in a quagmire, since the unions raised hell that management wanted to buy new planes despite being in debt.

/Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
trevd
Posts: 338
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:11 pm

LOT should buy whichever is the most efficient, passenger pleasing aircraft that makes the most money for their particular system and route structure. End of story.

However, as an editorial comment - I've flown LOT from Chicago to Warsaw several times and have been very, very pleased with the service. The 767 seemed to be very complimentary to their system and appeared to be the right size for LOT on the routes I've flown with them.
 
PolAir
Posts: 870
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:46 pm

Well, i think they will go Boeing. Poland has been for years the most pro-american nation in Europe (maybe except UK). We are basically kissing some serious yankee ass... I think government will continue trying to convince Mrs. Rice to help poles out with the visa requirements. They will go for 787.
Unless maybe LH and the rest of STAR pushes for Airbus, byt why would they do that?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:49 pm

A350

Welcome to my respected user list. I've noted that your posts cut through nationalistic lines and just say it how it is; an airline is a business.

[edited to add comment on post]
On topic: LOT will big A vs. B and buy whatever makes sense. It could be A330's, A350's, 787's, or the last 767 order.

There is one political aspect: the Polish government has been huge on getting Aerospace work for Poland. They will offer LOT tax breaks in return for Polish jobs. For example: if, as part of the order, Poland gets $1,000,000 USD (or Euros) to make say engine parts as part of the aircraft order, then Poland might offer LOT $200,000 worth of tax breaks. Something similar to the F-16 order.

Lightsaber

ps
A350, We'll probably disagree sometime, but I like how you present your arguments.

[Edited 2005-02-02 06:55:18]
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
iadguy73
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:48 am

RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:21 pm

I have to agree with JoFMO, there is no relationship between EU membership and Airbus.
MALEV, for instance, does not have a single Airbus aircraft and never had any before. They just finished updating their fleet with 16 736/7/8NGs in the last 2 years. It made sense for MALEV tho because when they started to switch their fleet from Soviet equipment in the late 80's, early 90's they started out with a Boeing fleet and kept it ever since.
Their current fleet:
Boeing 767-200ER 2
Boeing 737-800 NG 4
Boeing 737-700 NG 6
Boeing 737-600 NG 6
Fokker 70 5
CRJ 200 ER 4
Total 27

IADguy73
 
milan320
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

RE: LOT: Make Up Your Mind!

Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:39 am

There is one political aspect: the Polish government has been huge on getting Aerospace work for Poland. They will offer LOT tax breaks in return for Polish jobs. For example: if, as part of the order, Poland gets $1,000,000 USD (or Euros) to make say engine parts as part of the aircraft order, then Poland might offer LOT $200,000 worth of tax breaks. Something similar to the F-16 order.

Again, the offset investments from the F16 sale have been dismal to say the least in Poland. Airbus has been investing in Poland for far longer and LOT doesn't fly Airbus at all. Airbus has been increasing their investments in Poland by millions every year and said they will continue to do so regardless of whether LOT buys A or B (although we'll see about how true that is).
President Kwasniewski has not been happy with the offset investments at all, and it was on his agenda during a meeting with Bush last year. Poland feels duped by the US and as a result.
Not to mention that the only rebuilding contract that Poland received so far in Iraq is for a Polish company that is actually owned by the US. Poland will be pulling out of Iraq this year anyway.

/Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)

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