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HAWK21M
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Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:21 pm

http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/city/2005/february/102658.htm
I dont know if its true,Why would he lie to land Earlier.
Although I've personally experienced CD & IA pilots request for Pushback prior to Our Aircraft even though their Pushback truck has not arrived,just to jump the Que.
& the poor Freight Dogs Suffer  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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BALandorLivery
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:47 am

Interesting.

Maybe he just needed to get on the ground for personal reasons that are not acceptable with ATC (maybe his wife just had a baby?!?).

There could be many reasons to lie. I doubt bad fuel planning was the case, not in this day and age.

Interesting to see what becomes of this.

Regds
 
Venezuela747
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:04 am

I wonder if this is legal or not? I don't see anything wrong with it except for lack of "moral" values
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
sunnyb
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:10 am

Maybe because of nature calls!!
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:07 am

"He, however, said that if the aircraft has headwind (if the aircraft is going in the direction of the wind) then there is a possibility of extra fuel consumption."

headwind = when the aircraft is going in the direction of the wind...... is that worded wrong or is it just me ??????

-Nikhil
eP007
 
kaitak
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:20 am

No, headwind is going against the wind; pilots always take off and land against the wind. Tailwind on landing (above c.10 kts) = "a bad thing".

However, in cruise, the aircraft try to follow the direction of the wind/current; this is why transatlantic routes are changed every day, to take best advantage of the gulf stream. I think what they are trying to say is that if, during the cruise from DEL, the pilot came up against headwinds, it would have increased fuel consumption, but this is when the wind is against the aircraft.

By the way, 9 aircraft = "at least half an hour". I take it, then, that these controllers, have never had experience of La Guardia! (Presumably, the landing runway is also shared with departing aircraft?)

 
deltaamtrak058
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:55 am

amazing!! I sure don't know the whole story but sounds like one anxious pilot! What type of equip. was it?
The engine is the heart of an aeroplane, but the pilot is its soul. -Sir Walter Raleigh
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:01 am

Exactly, so if an aircraft goes in the direction of the wind, its a tailwind. My point being the article was worded wrong, not an understanding issue but thanks anyway  Smile
-Nikhil
eP007
 
bennett123
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:31 am


IMO, if this is a fake emergency they need to take a tough line in this individual.

 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:34 am

are there any clear-cut regulations regarding it. What is the possibility of any disciplinary action if any?
rgds
Aseem
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
TransIsland
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:36 am

"I doubt bad fuel planning was the case, not in this day and age."

... depends WHERE you are.


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(I understand Southern Air had its license revoked since.)
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tnsaf
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:10 am

So, I do not see anywhere the airline admits this happened, or the pilot was disciplined. Since the reporter got the concept of a headwind wrong, should we think this report is correct?

As well, if the pilot did ask for priority no one has proved that it wasn't justified. Better to ask for priority then run out of fuel! Let's not jump to conclusions!
700 hours and counting...
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:36 am

I wonder if they declared an actual EMERGENCY or let ATC know they were bingo fuel. Hard to tell from news media reports...

Crews "stretching the truth" and telling ATC they are "operationally unable" to comply with certain instructions is not so uncommon....
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:32 am

Mel, mel! When will you learn to ignore mid-day/aaj tak kind of newspapers? They are nothing but trash, something like Fox is in the US?

Remember Mid-Day is running stories of the "Patriotic Indian flies 10000 miles to vote" and "some such!
 
777ER
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:11 pm

If this is true then would the pilot be punised for lying so he could land first
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copter808
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 pm

If the pilot intentionally lied to ATC in order to get priority handling (declared an emergency when none existed), I think he's gonna be in deep sh*t. I would expect not only a suspension of his employment, but of his certificate as well. There may also be sanctions against the carrier as well.

For those of you who don't see a problem with this--aside from a moral issue--you might seriously want to consider an occupation which does not require a pilot certificate.
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:05 pm

This is not something new , there were rumours about 9W paying ATC about INR 1000 per fast clearance. Also there have been instances when an AI 744 was asked to hold to give priority landing to 9W for a so called "Medical Emergency" , the problem being that no ambulances/doctors were requested for on landing. This was when both flights were flying DEL-BOM and the AI flight was obviously faster between the sector.

However declaring a fuel emergency is pretty wierd ...

Regards
 
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777wt
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:40 pm

TransIsland,
I know for a fact that a FO is flying for Southern Air in a 747-300 currently.
Seen a pic of it too, it's completey white with just Southern Air title in black on it.
Last I heard from him was 2 weeks ago.
Must be a cargo he's flying for.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:45 pm

was wondering if there are any means to check such kind of practice. These private airlines will make mincemeat of our dear AI and IC.
regards
Aseem

[Edited 2005-02-02 05:48:32]
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
N79969
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:20 pm

I completely agree with Bennett123 and Copter808. If it is true, the pilot needs to have his ticket pulled and the airline ought to be fined heavily. I do not see how a company spokesman can dismiss this saying it was a matter between the pilot and ATC given the pilot was on duty operating a company flight.

A safe, efficient ATC system cannot be assured if pilots are making fake distress calls.

Besides the glaringly obvious moral problem of falsely declaring an emergency, I cannot think of a more unprofessional, low-brow act for an aviator.
 
ba299
Posts: 182
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:46 pm

If I get a penny for all the times that we ask for start-up when we don't have all pax onboard. I'll can stop to work.....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:53 pm

I'll try & check out the details at work tmrw.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
teva
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:44 pm

Maybe there was a minister or official person on board, and this person didn't want to wait. But of course, you will never give this reason...
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:15 am

Ba299, hahahah that made me laugh.

Copter808 - I don’t think anyone thinks what he did was right, far from it. But the real truth of what really happened is missing; we can’t trust one news report. If it is proven that he really did lie then by all means fire him, stripe him of his ATP or anything. But,,,,,, we don’t know the real nature of the situation…….yet

-Nikhil
eP007
 
ILS27R
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:23 am

There is no excuse for ingornace!

Airline pilots need to hit some wake turbulence...

and realize THEY HAVE THE BEST JOBS IN THE WORLD
 
copter808
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:12 am

Maybe there was a minister or official person on board, and this person didn't want to wait. But of course, you will never give this reason...
Teva


Quite the contrary! It's not at all uncommon to have a "Code" (VIP, ranked according to importance. i.e. The President/Prime Minister is a code 1, vice-president code 2, etc) onboard and be accorded special handling. I think it's even more common in Asian countries. It seems that anyone who is the least bit important in some Asian countries is accorded a police escort through the city!

An aircraft carrying a "code" would still be following an aircraft which has declared an emergency.
 
lowrider
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:09 am

Everyone just needs to settle down and wait for the facts to come out. He might have had an emergency of a more personal nature (ex. bad fish for lunch) or may have had reasons he did not want to transmit in the open. You cannot get priority handling without giving some reason. Fuel is an easy one. If it was just a matter of lack of patience, I am sure an appropriate flogging will follow.


On a side note; ILS27R, you are remarkable arrogant for one with no experience in the area of which you speak. Is it a good job? It can be. Its good enough for me, and if it wasn't, I'd quit. Don't presume to know anything about it, though. I don't care if Juan Trippe was your grandfather and Al Hayes was your father. To tell another person what to think of a job you have not done yourself is pompous and self-righteous.
Proud OOTSK member
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:32 am

Why would he lie to land Earlier.

He was afraid he'd be late for his second job at an inbound call center for U.S. service companies.  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:30 am


Maybe there was a minister or official person on board, and this person didn't want to wait. But of course, you will never give this reason...

Dunno how true this is, but one pilot once told me that when there is VVIP on board they dial a code number into their radio sets which lets the ATC know about the situation. Their aircraft shows up in a different color on the radar screens. Or some such.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:46 am

Airline pilots need to hit some wake turbulence...

and realize THEY HAVE THE BEST JOBS IN THE WORLD


They may have the best jobs in the world, but the have the worst careers.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:26 pm

Everyones hush hush about the Affair,The Reason cannot be confirmed though.
Rumours are many.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:16 am

Maybe there was a minister or official person on board, and this person didn't want to wait

Maybe the Vice Secretary of State for Culture or Education in Bihar...  Yeah sure
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
D950
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:37 am

Maybe I am missing something here, but I have been on channel 9 on UAL many times when the pilot has declared a fuel emergency when told to go into a holding pattern for ORD, usually they ask for Evansville, also when sent into oblivion on the way to LGA, they have done the same and asked for BUF or even Logan, I thought this was commonplace.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:00 pm

Whats the Update on the Investigation.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
IndianFlyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:58 pm

RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:57 pm

"Dunno how true this is, but one pilot once told me that when there is VVIP on board they dial a code number into their radio sets which lets the ATC know about the situation. Their aircraft shows up in a different color on the radar screens. Or some such.

Maybe they just squawk 7700 , becoz a minister flying on board is sure as hell a hijack and it does show up pink on the radar .....

Regards
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:50 pm

I take it, then, that these controllers, have never had experience of La Guardia!
hahaha, exactly what i was thing, but not just LGA, ANY major aiport!!!!
 
RMenon
Posts: 113
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:24 am

By the way, 9 aircraft = "at least half an hour". I take it, then, that these controllers, have never had experience of La Guardia! (Presumably, the landing runway is also shared with departing aircraft?)

With single runway ops, presumably at least 8 other a/c waiting to take off, you have 17 movements - which can easily get to half hour.

If you are number 17 in LGA, you will also get close to half hour wait...(and with ILS ops, you can bet 9 inbounds will get close to 20 minutes too.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Pilot Lies To Mumbai ATC To Land First!

Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting 777WT (reply 17):
TransIsland,
I know for a fact that a FO is flying for Southern Air in a 747-300 currently.


777WT, I think TransIsland was referring to the fuel shortage onboard the Southern Air Charter B1900C (pictured in his post). What was freaky was that the wreckage was still there as of the 5th of January when I was leaving Nassau to come back to Baltimore (I spotted it on South Beach after takeoff). I wish I had known that while I was down there!

@TransIsland: how long since the incident did Southern get their license revoked? IIRC, they were still flying when I was down there in December/January.

George
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)

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