Crazy Landing At LGA

mischadee · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:29 am

Just saw this clip at www.flightlevel350.com today.

http://www1.flightlevel350.com/~admin1/photos/74/1106992701.wmv

Does this sort of approaches happen often at LGA? I wonder what the passengers onboard where thinking? I would have loved to be a passenger on that Delta 737.

Any thoughts?

Mischa.

Clipper002 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:40 am

Awesome film. That looks like an approach to 31 with a strong left base over Shea Stadium. If you look closely, you'll see a departure lifting off the far end of the runway. What the arrival was doing was completing a "S" turn for spacing so that there wouldn't be 2 a/c on the same runway at the same time. I've seen the same thing at DCA on 18 which is a hell of an approach without the additional turns.

Rgds,
ED

Alitalia744 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:43 am

thats the video on nycaviation.com

great stuff, love the expressway visual into LGA

7e72004 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:50 am

that thing looked like it was going to "land" at the gate!

D950 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:52 am

Probably happens 10-15 times a week minumum @ LGA especially on 4 & 22 where "S" patterns are a way of life.

7e72004 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:54 am

"This is Delta Flight 222...next stop...the economy lot...."

mirrodie · Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:59 am

much respect to BigPhilNYC for braving the elements for such a unique clip.

zrb2 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:03 am

Looks like some of my landings when I'm playing around with FS2004. I land sideways in heavy crosswinds.

jetblueatjfk · Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:45 am

"Today our gate/runway assignment is inside the terminal, because we want to be in the action"lol. That was a big turn and a bad angled landing. Looks like when you land with crosswind.

jetBlueAtJFK

aaflt1871 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:49 am

You want to experience a landing better than that. Try the river visual at DCA. By far the best out there!

Clipper002 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:58 am

As I said throw in a turn for spacing while conducting a river visual. That's flying.

Ed

redngold · Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:28 am

[Edit: OK this post is meaningless because apparently the video isn't available for public viewing yet. The administrator privilege is in effect.]

Better link:
http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwindow.php?cat=74&pic1851

The one listed above is an administrator link.

[Edited 2005-02-01 23:42:39]

AT502B · Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

Yeah great video- It's always fun to watch airliners maneuver around like their baby cousins.

deltaamtrak058 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:49 am

If you look at this landing chart of the expressway visual rwy 31

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0501/00289EXPRESSWAY_VIS31.PDF

it requires you make a hard "jughandle" turn into the rwy....but cool apch. though!

September11 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:51 pm

special task!

thanks for sharing

N754PR · Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:10 pm

Very nice..... God I miss Kai Tak.

777wt · Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:13 pm

I once saw an AA MD-80 used the entire runway and didn't rotate til just before the big white blocks at the end of #4 on top of 22 and there was some tailwind on that day.

ktachiya · Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:51 pm

What a turn!!!

And I guess there was quite a lot of side-winds. But he made that steep right turn at the end.

TWAMD-80 · Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:39 pm

That was a cool video - hats off to Phil. It's amazing that the pilot was able to still make the landing, although it didn't look to be especially soft. The Expressway Visual to 31 is a hell of an approach. I got to go for a ride on the Expressway Visual last June on one of AA's MD-80's and it was awesome. We didn't have to do any S-turns but the pilot sure banked the airplane over to get it onto the final approach course.

TW

gothamspotter · Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:51 pm

By no means is this a normal landing for Expressway Visual 31. Generally, landing aircraft are lined up for finals at least a mile from the threshold, but as my friend Phil mentions in the description (which you can't see in the links above):

This plane coming in on Expressway Visual 31 was instructed to execute an S-turn due to departing traffic, and he came in very off-center. One of my wildest clips, for a second I didn't think he was going to make it.

You can visit Phil's site at www.nycaviation.com for more nice videos and NYC-area spotting info.

WF2BNN · Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:22 pm

I just showed the clip to a friend, she replayed:

"is that the new super jumbo you told me about?"

My God, Joe and Jane don't know much about aviation... Big thumbs up

Then again, I don't know much about a lot of things...

Mats

bigphilnyc · Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:43 am

Hey guys,

Glad you all enjoyed my clip. Heck, I've had that posted in an old aviaiton newsletter i ran and once on the forusm here and it never got attention. Last I looked it had over 4,500 views on flightlevel350.com. lol

Just to clarify, this is NOT a normal approach to 31. I've seen many crosswind landings, but never like that. That approach was crazy. In more detail:

At about the 3 second mark, planes are usually coming in straight at me already. In fact, they often come in if not directly over my head, a little to the left, this plane was on the right side. Because I was expecting him to be on the left side, I was facing the wrong way and at the 20 second mark, you see a blatant shake which is me turning my body around to face the plane.

I got more and more nervous as he came in, and I was waiting for him to called missed and try again but he just kept going. I wasn't using a tripod or anything, and at one point I really thought I was about to see a crash and I wanted to keep it as steady as I could, no shakes from being shocked, so the FAA could use my footage for their investigation. That's how concerned I was. lol A bit much I know.

I can only imagine what it was like to be a passenger on that flight. Wow.

I'd also like to thank everyone for mentioning my website. I have other videos on there, and a lot more to come, many to flightlevel350.com also.

Take care folks.

-Phil

viasamsy · Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:28 am

Is this approach similar to the river visual at DCA?
I have landed in DCA once and was pretty amazing. I congratulated the pilots when about to leave the a/c and the Captain told me: " The closest you will get to landing on an a/c carrier". Smile/happy/getting dizzy

bigphilnyc · Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:06 am

Updated link to the video for you folks:

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwindow.php?cat=74&pic=1851

jumbojet · Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:14 am

I've seen that approach hundreds of times, living near LGA. I've even intentionally booked flights from LGA to DCA and back on the same day when I've known LGA is using the expressway appr. to 3-1.

Amazing video. I've watched it numerous times in the last 5 minutes.

steve

redngold · Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:31 am

Very nice, Phil, very nice. The pilot did a great job of landing that sucker, too. But I admit if I was a passenger on that plane I might have been a wee bit nervous Wow!

Noticed it was an old-old livery, too.

Clipper002 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:24 am

Phil,
Didn't take notice of the "flightlevel350.com" sight before. Thanks for the great footage and the knowledge of LGA. The only reason I was able to pick out what was happening is that I lived close to LGA and IDL for most of my life.

Rgds,
Ed

Clipper002 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:34 am

My son (GroundStop) and I were watching arrivals at DCA about 5 years ago at Gravely Park. This is just off the leading edge of 18 and the "River approach." As we had a scanner with us we were also monitoring the tower freq. We were watching a US 737 on approach with a DL 737 in position on the runway. Neither of us could believe it when the controller cleared DL for takeoff. There was definitely not enough room for 2 planes on the same runway at the same time. As US passed over us, he immediately hit the "go around" but maintained runway heading. In the meantime DL continued its' takeoff roll and began climbing right up into the US 737's flight path. There was not one word on the frequency until US was told to "turn left 90 degrees immediately". That was about as close to a mid-air that I have ever seen. Someone at the park had a home video and taped the entire thing which was shown on the local news in D.C.

You never know when you'll be in the "right" or "wrong" place at the right time.

Ed

lowrider · Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:38 am

Not crazy, just New York Normal. That is the sort of think you get paid for.

foxecho · Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:51 am

Hey Phil dude-

awesome site you have, first time I had seen it.. keep up the good work man....hope you are doing well

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI

KALB · Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:37 am

That was one heck of an approach and landing. In addition to the "s" turn, there seemed to be good crosswind which necessitated a crabbed landing. I would loved to have been a passenger on that flight.

san747 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:47 am

I've never seen a landing into LGA that went like that! It was crazy and that's what made it so sweet! Can make an hour flight from BOS or DCA, where that plane surely came from, a lot more interesting!

KAUST · Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:57 am

Kind of reminds me of my harrowing turn into the end of my driveway Laugh out loud

The house is currently having construction on it and the street/driveway tend to be cluttered with trailers and what not.

But to be more on the subject, once saw a Fed-Ex MD(10/11?) make and S-turn approach and landing into AUS onto 17L. From what I heard it had to make such an approach (which was also rather steep, from what I could make out,) cause it had an in-flight cargo shift.

And to be yet even more on the subject, as also a huge baseball fan, I'd love to get an upper deck seat some day at Shea and watch those planes fly by. I'd probably have my camera as affixated on the planes as it is on the game!

KAUST

FlyMKG · Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:01 pm

Does anybody have a copy of the video or know where I can get a copy of the video that Clipper002 describes? I would love to see that!

FlyMKG

san747 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:04 pm

KAUST:

And to be yet even more on the subject, as also a huge baseball fan, I'd love to get an upper deck seat some day at Shea and watch those planes fly by. I'd probably have my camera as affixated on the planes as it is on the game!

I did that one time, with a video camera, when I was 13, and my dad, after a while, told me to put the camera away! Thankfully, the Mets won the game...

KAUST · Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:14 pm

Haha San...as long as they won Big grin

Exactly how close to the stadium do they come? I had once heard that in poor weather conditions an airliner (nearly I am sure, if anything) struck a light standard at Shea? Seems like it would be an urban legend though....

KAUST

san747 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:18 pm

They come fairly close, when they take off that direction, you can see their shadows for a split second... When we park on the street nearby (why pay to park in the parking lot if you can walk a little bit more for free?), the planes come in low... I remember a 727 (possibly DL, I don't remember) came in right above and it was LOUD! I watched it drift in, it was amazing!

Ironically, the couple of times I've flown into LGA, the plane has never flown that approach, although I have done the approach to runway 22 where you go so low above the water, you think you're going to crash, and then, WHOOSH, the runway appears...

About that urban legend, I've never heard of it before, I couldn't tell you whether it's true or not...

[Edited 2005-02-03 04:19:28]

Clipper002 · Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:41 pm

The film at DCA was shot by amateur photographers that happened to be there at the time. You can try and contact some of the DC TV stations to see if they still have it.

Ed

ATLhomeCMH · Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:46 am

Great video, Phil. Welcome to my respected users list.

I have to admit, I've never quite been in an approach like that before. My LGA approaches haven't been anywhere near as harrowing!

Kudos to the pilots...I bet they were having a blast!

MD88Captain · Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:20 am

Great video. They screwed it up. A strong left to right crosswind on the Expressway Visual 31 will make you overshoot final as you make the turn around Shea. You have to compensate for the overshooting crosswind with a steeper turn in order to roll out near extended final. Even that is difficult sometimes. These 2 got blown way right of extended final and didn't fight the crosswind hard enough to get back to centerline. It was all screwed up. And they topped it off by landing in a huge crab!

Delta company policy (written in stone) says if your not stabilized on approach by 500' you execute the missed approach. Stabilized means on centerline, approaching final bug speed, on glideslope. These guys were never stabilized. Not even at 50' it would appear.

Sometimes we try to save a bad approach whether it is our fault or a controllers fault, but it is never really a good idea. We are paid to be professionals. And professionals do the wise thing, the safe thing, the required thing, and go around (even though we may have the skill to get it on the ground after an ugly, scrambly-ass save.)

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