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PPVRA
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Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:26 pm

Ok, there have been countless threads about "Who is next to order the 787/A380."

So who do you think is next in line to order some EMBs?

I think BA or AF should order some in the not so distant future, they could make good use of them. Or maybe another Asian carrier?

Your thought's?

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:32 pm

I believe NWA will replace 1/2 or 2/3 of DC9 fleets. Rest will be replace with A319.

Dave
 
dalecary
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:33 pm

Virgin Blue has been linked with an EMB-170/190 order for some time.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:06 pm

I wish (that's all it is... wishful thinking) that AeroLitoral, soon to be merged into AeroCaribe and, potentially renamed, would change its orders and options for 145's to 170's.
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kalakaua
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

I'm hoping that AQ could get several of 'em...
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
jetboyflyhi
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:08 pm

I hope all regional airlines start to fly the aircraft.I think it very safe to say we will see a lot more of these in the US.
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lightsaber
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:23 pm

AA negotiated to allow the E170 to have a weight exemption to qualify as a 70 seater for Eagle. Alas, they won't be ordering for months. But when they do, the order should be large (say for 50).

For NW, I see an order that is 50% E170's (regional partner) and 50% E190's (mainline) to replace some DC-9s. I agree with Amtrackguy's assessment that 33% to 50% of the remaining DC-9's will be replaced by A319's.

Also, I see CO ordering 50 or so if the pilots accept a higher count of 70 seaters.

Some DL express carrier (if DL can get more 70 seaters allowed).

Anyone know of a European airline that's interested? While I like the E-jets, I'm not seeing much of an Asian market (excluding possibly JET in India).

It seems like the market has voted for range over CASM (170 vs. 175, 190 vs. 195).


Lightsaber.
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deltaffindfw
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:11 pm


Comair's new CEO has already stated that if they get the wage freezes they are asking for, they will be in line for new routes flown by 170s. Can't find the article now, but it was in the Cinci. Enquirer.
 
fourstripe
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:23 pm

I heard that the AA order will be for 190's, not 170's... anybody else heard anything?

-fourstripe
“Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.” - Edward Vernon Rickenbacker
 
A330323X
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:02 pm

US will shortly be placing an order for the EMB-190, probably for 60 of them (as many as they are permitted to operate), probably converting some of their EMB-170 orders into the larger type in the process.

(US will also be converting most if not all of their 30-some remaining CRJ-700 orders into CRJ-900 orders, as already permitted under their contract with Bombardier.)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
FCKC
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:29 pm

PPVRA

The case of Air France getting EMB170/190s (in fact not AF , but the franchise carriers) is a little bit complex and is tied to the new fighter that the Brasilian AF is seeking to acquire.

The front runners for this competition is the SU27 (Russia) and the Mirage2000 (France).
In exchange for the choice of the Russian fighter by Brasil , it is said that Aeroflot will buy EMB170/190s.Actually they are searching for a plane in this category.
If Brasil decides to go ahead with the Mirage2000 , then the AF franchise partners will buy EMB170/190s.If not , surely they will turn to CRJ900s.
What i can know now , is that these AF franchise partners have stopped negociations with Canadair , and surely are waiting for the selection of the Brasilian AF.They are not in hurry.
So , obviously another political story............

But do not be afraid , surely these new Embraer planes will sell very well.

Do you know something about the planned purchase of these planes by TAM?
Once they were interested by these planes (and if i well remember they signed a MOU........what's the value ?) and the A318.
I know brasilian airlines are struggling to survive , and thus maybe it's not time for them to purchase new planes , but TAM seems to be this with the better health.

Viva Brasil !!!!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:45 pm

I thought 9W [Jet Airways] had considered them,What went wrong.
regds
MEL
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hardiwv
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:45 pm

you know something about the planned purchase of these planes by TAM?

TAM was deciding between Airbus and Embraer to replace its fleet of F-100 (at one time TAM had the biggest fleet of F-100 in the world). A decision was made to replace the F-100s with Airbuses.

now brasilian airlines are struggling to survive , and thus maybe it's not time for them to purchase new planes , but TAM seems to be this with the better health.

TAM and GOL are both in good financial health. In 2004 GOL placed an order of 49 B737-800s, and now has the biggest fleet of 737NG in LatAm. I expect GOL' s Beoing-based fleet to expand rapidly, while TAM will continue with its strategic growth probably make some fresh orders of Airbuses in 2005.

No Embraers for the Brazilian domestic market.

Rgs,

 
miaskies
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:03 pm

Will AA's order for 170 or 190's be for American or American Eagle? Seems to me that if it were for the 190 it would be for AA not AE.
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ERJ170
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:14 pm

Some DL express carrier (if DL can get more 70 seaters allowed).

Chautaqua has already ordered 16 E170 to start delivery in June.. with 34 options..
Aiming High and going far..
 
vector
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:04 pm

Another possible future orders:

Lufthansa, JAT, SAS, Virgin...

There are rumors of an Australian company (maybe Qantas) ordering some.

A think that 2005 will bring some good news for Embraer people.
 
lowecur
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:51 pm

Chautauqua(Republic) has 39 firm orders and 61 options for UAX & DCI for the 170. Options can be changed to the 190.
 
CB777
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:46 am

Expect to see an order for E170/190 from Portugalia Airlines in the near
future.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:55 am

FCKC,

I am very familiar with political meddling in the aviation industry and do not want to appear naive, but what do AF's regional franchise partners have to do with a Brazilian fighter procurement decision? Yes, I know Dassault has partnered with Embraer to offer the F2000BR for the FX-BR contract and I know Dassault is a small shareholder in Embraer.

But, aren't AF's regional affiliates independent private companies? Don't they make capital investment decisions on their own, without any influence by the French government. An analogy would be, say, Republic [franchise carrier for US, DL and UA here in the US] deciding on whether to purchase the E170/190 based on whether Lockheed's F16 won the FX-BR contract. This is absurd, to say the least! Or, SK or BA deciding on the E170/190 based on whether the Bae/SAAB Gripen was chosen!

How can the French government possibly influence an independent capital investment decision made by a private enterprise? Why would private companies allow the State to boss them around?
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:56 am

Comair will be ordering them. 6F / 64Y config.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
SNBA
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:58 am

Why not SN Brussels Airlines?
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:04 am

Could it be...

The airline which determines after a proper evaluation that the aircraft is the right fit for their needs?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:13 am

By top of mind, some for CO, AA, NW more to US UA DL(with republic) probably LH will get some, and Virgin Blue too.
Heck, when B6 get´s theirs why not say Ryanair and some LCC´s in Europe.

Think B6 will teach the LCC a new lesson, to be profitable with a 2 type fleet.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
N1120A
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:31 am

>I heard that the AA order will be for 190's, not 170's<

It will likely be for AA, since they have stated that mainline needs a 100 seater and the window is closing for the 717.

>Heck, when B6 get´s theirs why not say Ryanair and some LCC´s in Europe.<

FR still has some 100 or so 738s on firm order, so I don't think their fleet will be changing for a while.

>Think B6 will teach the LCC a new lesson, to be profitable with a 2 type fleet.<

FL and U2 already do that
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hardiwv
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:34 am

And dont forget the Chinese market!
 
fourstripe
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:55 am

If AA purchases as EMB 190, it will be for Eagle, not AA. Well... sort of. It will be an Eagle painted aircraft with all coach seating but operated by AA crews. This will keep the pilots' unions happy. Right now they are not happy at all with all of the AA flowbacks that Eagle is getting. With these new Embraers, they can let mainline AA fly the larger jets for Eagle while keeping the original routes for themselves.

-fourstripe
“Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.” - Edward Vernon Rickenbacker
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:09 am

N1120A: But isn´t true that easyjet has a 2 fleet type cause they´r changing the fleet from 737´s to A-320´s and as the A-320´s come in the 737´s go home, or is it a permanent thing, until the 737´s are old enough to go to Mojave?!??!
About Ryanair they do have a lot of 738´s in order, but B6 also have A-320´s in order and that didn´t stop them from ordering the E-190, they are just looking at a diferent market, thing that FR can do as well....but that´s just my tought´s.

I didn´t know about FL, ,tought they just had 717´s.

Frontier has A-318´s and CRJ-700, is that correct or....?

thx in advance.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
lowecur
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:21 am

Republic(Chautauqua) just did another public offering of 6M shares @12.50 today. After the last public offering on 1/13/05 they made the purchase of 16 170s for DCI a week later. You may see another large purchase shortly.
 
FCKC
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:46 am

Pdpsol

Well well , you are not naive , you are very logical
As soon as these AF franchise partners are private airlines , effectively it is logical to think politics have nothing to do with their own decisions
BUT this is only on the paper.
Do not forget if these AF franchise partners , namely Britair , Regional are in good health , this is only due because AF makes them survive.If they were not affiliated with AF , surely they would have been down.The CEO of both these airlines understood that long time ago , and begann to be AF franchise partner .At their beginning both these airlines flew with their own flight numbers and were totally independant.
Also do not forget that in France , all airlines being not affiliated with AF , one day or another go bankrupt.
So we can think even if these airlines are private , and despite what AF declare , certainly the big carrier have some kind of influence on them.
Surely we can think , if these AF franchise partners do not do like AF want , this last one will turn its mind to another airline.
As AF is tied with the French government , surely this last one can have some kind of pressure on the French carrier , then this one can have nfluence on the AF franchise airlines.
And as the French government would like to see Dassault wins in Brasil , it is easy for you to conclude for the choice of the AF franchise partner.
Do not forget that Poland has chosen the F16 for their Air Force , only for political decision and for American compensations which are far to be reached as in Chile when this country opted for the F16 too , and that it should be the last market for the Mirage2000 to win one selection.
Do not know for the Bae/Gripen , how the Swedish and Britain governments react.
Surely it's exactly the same thing with the SU27/EMB170/190 deal with Russia/Brasil.
I buy one of your product , so you have to buy one of mine..........
Remember the A380/shrimps deal with Thailand/Europe.
Hope to have made some light for you.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:11 am

I wouldn't be surprised if Air Wisconsin ordered them if the RFP goes through. I think we are looking for a different fleet mix and a cheaper aircraft to fly, the 146 is just so expensive.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
PDPsol
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:49 am

FCKC,

Thanks for your response; I can CLEARLY see how regionals' affiliation with AF could be damaged should one of them 'piss off' the government.

BUT, here's another question: does the government really influence AF? I mean, following the AF/KL merger, "l'Etat" saw its pro-rata stake in the company drop below 50%. I thought the stated policy of the French State was NOT to interfere with AF and its operations.

Again, perhaps this is just another case of political "doublespeak"...
 
PPVRA
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:17 am

Hey guys!

Virgin Blue livery would look great in the EMBs! And it would be the first Embraer aircraft to be based in aussie territory! Or are there other E110s or E120s in Australia?

FCKC,

Oh man, if they want to wait until this FX-BR deal is over we won't see AF EMBs for some time!!! I hope the government makes a final decision to finally choose which aircraft they go with soon!!


CO/AA and NW (especially the latter one) would be very nice to see operating the E-series!

BTW, as mentioned above, what happened with that 9W order? There was a lot of talk but it suddenly just died...

Cheers,

PPVRA





"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:38 am

are there other E110s or E120s in Australia?

There are many E110s and E120s operating in Australia, which has one of the biggest fleet of regional turbo-prop planes in the world, after the US and Brazil.

This is the E170 in Brisbane on demostration for Virgin Blue:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Craig Murray



Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-02 22:39:33]
 
f4f3a
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

I can see FLYBE ordering the 170/190 to replace their aging 146 fleet.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00003673

Also BA is looking to standardise their regional fleet which is currently a mix of 146, erjs dash 8s and even some jetstreams

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000586
 
FCKC
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:38 am

PPVRA

I read somewhere that the decision by the Brasilian AF has been delayed again!!!!! ..............till end of this yaer or the beginning of next year.

Pdpsol

As you wrote the stated policy of the French Government is not to interfere with AF and their operations.
We can suppose it only on the paper............
Officially Air France is totally independent.
 
gg190
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:41 am

I think the 170/190 would be good for BA. Some of their 146 -100's & -200's must getting on a bit now.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:08 am

And why not Southwest? Its not a secret that Herb and the gang are looking at an RJ like the rest of the carriers on the planet. An Em190 or Bombardier C model could do wonders for Southwest.
The answer to the Q could be anyone who is real friendly with their banker could be the next buyer of this plane.
safe
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EMBQA
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:19 am

If AA purchases as EMB 190, it will be for Eagle, not AA. Well... sort of. It will be an Eagle painted aircraft with all coach seating but operated by AA crews.

You'll see hell freeze over before you'd see a mainline American crew fly a jet in Eagle colors. American/Eagle are one of the most militant airline unions out there. Shoot, onetime when we flew as one of the first American Connection carriers, they FREAKED because the eagle logo near the door was the wrong color.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
FlyHoss
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:42 am

Erikwilliam,
Frontier has A-318´s and CRJ-700, is that correct or....?

Horizon operates the CRJ's for Frontier.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
MQrampBOS
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:22 am

If AA purchases as EMB 190, it will be for Eagle, not AA. Well... sort of. It will be an Eagle painted aircraft with all coach seating but operated by AA crews.

If it's in Eagle colors, you can be sure Eagle pilots are gonna fight for this one. There was enough fighting with the flowbacks from AA to Eagle. If it's for AA crews, it will be AA metal. If not, it's gonna be worse than the flowback issue because it will involve pilots, FAs, and in some cities ramp as well. We'll see how it works.

AA negotiated to allow the E170 to have a weight exemption to qualify as a 70 seater for Eagle. Alas, they won't be ordering for months. But when they do, the order should be large (say for 50).

Didn't see that one coming. Well, maybe they'll send one to BOS and I can work it  Smile
Don't put me on A7! I got out of the airport, so why send me back?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:24 pm

In reality, none of the US network carriers are close to placing an order for the E170/E190. There are simply too many issues that need to be sorted out, and then there is the financial situation too. The biggest problem is all of the scope clauses, mainline vs. regionals, pay scales, etc. Until these negotiations are even started, let alone resolved, you won't see any more of these ordered by the likes of AA, CO, DL, NW.

I'm not saying they won't order them, just not in the short-term future, like within the next 6 months. After that, maybe.
 
f4f3a
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:26 pm

Does anyone know if the 170/190 has or meets the performance and noise levels to fly into london city?

 
hardiwv
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:30 pm

Does anyone know if the 170/190 has or meets the performance and noise levels to fly into london city?

Luxemburg's flag carrier, Luxair, is currently the only airline operating Embraer jets in LCY, using the ERJ-135 (it replaced the F-50).

I dont think the ERJ-170 or 190 would be able to land in LCY. The problem is not the "noise levels" (which are reasonably low) but because of the short runaway in LCY.

LCY is one of my favourite airports in Europe.

Here is the link on Luxair's ERJ-135 to LCY:

http://www.luxair.lu/luxair/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=543&a=3696&l=en

 
A330323X
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:02 am

In reality, none of the US network carriers are close to placing an order for the E170/E190. There are simply too many issues that need to be sorted out, and then there is the financial situation too. The biggest problem is all of the scope clauses, mainline vs. regionals, pay scales, etc.

Except for US Airways, which, as I said above, will be ordering the EMB-190 shortly. (Obviously, US already has the EMB-170.) US is the only legacy carrier with scope permitting it to place 90-seat jets at an Express carrier.

I agree that scope issues pose a significant problem at other carriers for the EMB-190.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
columba
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:10 am

According to the weekly news magazine "Focus" here in Germany Lufthansa seems to be interested in the "brazilian export star" as they call it in that article.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PPVRA
Topic Author
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:01 am

EMB series in LH colors would be a dream come true!

Here is an image of a 170 in LH colors:

http://www.jetsite.com.br/fotos/D-AEIY_LUFTHANSA.jpg

FCKC,

The old Mirages are due to retire by the end of this year (I think), so it's possible [I hope] something will come out of it by years end.

Cheers,

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
planemaker
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:05 am

Comair's new CEO has already stated that if they get the wage freezes they are asking for, they will be in line for new routes flown by 170s. Can't find the article now, but it was in the Cinci. Enquirer.

A Comair memo by the Fred Buttrell (Comair CEO) was obtained by FI and he confirms that they want the E170. If they get the wage freeze they are aiming to add 35 new aircraft - 10 CRJ200s and 25 E170s.

Regarding the E170 he wrote, "I view moving into this equipment as critical. Just as like Comair made the innovative move in 1993 to a CRJ provider, we have to make an innovative step now for the next 10 years."

Comair was the N. America launch customer for the both the CRJ200 (137 in fleet) and CRJ700 (27 in fleet.) If EMB lands a Comair order for the 25 E170s it would obviously be a major coup as it would signal that the CRJ is at a competitive disadvantage as the domestic market restructures.


I dont think the ERJ-170 or 190 would be able to land in LCY. The problem is not the "noise levels" (which are reasonably low) but because of the short runaway in LCY.

The E170 is not certified for LCY... yet. Crossair originally ordered it because EMB guaranteed that the 170 would be able to operate into LCY.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Next Airline To Order EMB-170/190s?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:11 am

I would love to see Continental Express ordering these jets and putting them on their flights to Mexico and replace all of those embraer jets. I love flying to Mexico via IAH with continental BUT I avoid those match boxes at ALL COSTS! So, the 170-190 would be a nice upgrade without being too big.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos