Was quoted: UA and NW have unlimited routes and beyond rights for Japan
Was rebutted with: WRONG.... they most certainly do NOT ... The Japan/USA bilateral is actually among the most restrictive out there governing new services and new beyond rights and the composition of traffic thereupon.
You didn't list your source, but I'll list mine: http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/7000/7500/7580/jatww3-2matthews.pdf
is an "incumbent" carrier under the 1952 bilateral, as are UA
, the only difference being UA
was grandfathered in with their purchase of PA's routes.
2) Under the 1952 bilateral U.S. carriers were allowed Fifth Freedom rights to 8 destinations beyond Japan. Japan in return was allowed a limited Fifth Freedom to Brazil via Los Angeles.
3) The 1952 agreement was revised in 1996 to include:
a) An unlimited number of U.S. Japan points for two incumbent carriers from each country, which meant ANA would become an incumbent along with JAL, Northwest and United;
b) An orderly expansion of beyond rights for U.S. incumbents in exchange for more beyond points for Japanese carriers;
c) New beyond authority for non-incumbent U.S. carriers;
d) A substantial increase in frequencies for nonincumbents;
e) The U.S. could designate two new MOU carriers immediately and could add a third MOU carrier in two years;
f) Expansion would include some price flexibility to enhance competition;
g) U.S. MOU carriers would get a total of 150 new round trips a week, in addition to unlimited expansion for incumbents;
h) United and Northwest were awarded unlimited Third and Fourth Freedoms in addition to substantial beyond rights for each;
i) The DOT added two new incumbents immediately and a third after two years, with new slots and some Fifth Freedom rights for good measure; and
j) United was a big winner in the negotiations ... in the end, United could use its established position in Japan to pursue any level of realistic growth it might entertain, along with securing an important alliance partner in the newly created incumbent carrier, ANA.
It was further rebutted that:
The US gov has proactively attempted several times to open the party; the UK gov tends to be the primary source of resistance
How one views "resistance" is subjective, since the US is regarding cabotage rights for UK carriers within the US as excessive in exchange for open skies.