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CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:26 am

Looks like we are getting the service.....we just posted our first position in Beijing!!! THe international country director.
 
panam330
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:30 am

Excellent! When is a press release expected to be released, and I assume the service is to be a B777-200, not a B767-200?
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
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RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:37 am

not sure but i would imagine pretty soon now!!
 
COfaninBOS
Posts: 284
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RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:41 am

Yippee.

Good for Continental and good for the entire Northeast region. I hope the flight(s) are so successful that they add IAH in the future as well.

Do you think this will mean CO will exercise that last option on a 777?
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4406
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RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:43 am

That's what I'm talkin about  Big thumbs up
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
N774UA
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:55 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:43 am

Maybe they use the 777 that is coming available this spring. AMS will lose it's T7 service.  Sad

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
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RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:45 am

but many are now saying that the 777 from AMS will be going to LOS........so who knows....what we do know, is that we can't do the PEK service with just one aircraft.....
 
goCOgo
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:50 am

Great for CO, but I'll hold my breath until I see an official release. They only have 18 777s though, so where are they going to pull one from? (EDIT I guess N774UA answered my question while I was typing.) Seeing how mad some employees got when they ordered 10 787s while asking for pay concessions, I doubt they could order another 777 or 2 without risking a strike.

I hope the flight(s) are so successful that they add IAH in the future as well.

So do I, but that's up to the US and the Chinese governments.

[Edited 2005-02-02 21:52:23]
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:53 am

I thought CO applied for Shanghai in 2005 and Beijing in 2006. So it could be AA ORD-PVG in 2005 and CO EWR-PEK in 2006.....
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
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RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:55 am

We still hvaent had the press release for LOS either but we have hired everyone for that station as well....for those who got mad about us picking up airplanes dont fully understand why we are ordering airplanes right now anyways. And the paycut was not that substantial. Now top out is $19.55 or right around that amount. Thats still atleast $36,000/yr. Which is more than what many others make......and thats a good amount of change for a job that requires basically no education or intelligence other than stacking bags on an airplane.
 
goCOgo
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:08 am

We still hvaent had the press release for LOS either

Check http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=85779&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=653371&highlight= or if that dosen't work, look for a relase dated 12/9/04 on continental.com.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:54 am

So it could be AA ORD-PVG in 2005 and CO EWR-PEK in 2006

It could, but the OP said CO had posted a position for an "international country director" based in Beijing.

They'd only need one country director for China, correct? It would seem to me that the only way it could be extrapolated that AA or another airline other than CO is getting PVG in 2005 at this point would be to be able to explain how Shanghai and Beijing are in two different countries.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
goCOgo
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:39 am

I thought CO applied for Shanghai in 2005 and Beijing in 2006

No, CO want's Beijing first.

"Continental requests permission to inaugurate service to Beijing in the spring of 2005 and to Shanghai in the spring of 2006, subject to government approval."

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=85779&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=617915&highlight=
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:46 am

PEK is hot right now, good for CO.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
AF022
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:47 pm

wasn't the FAA going to announce new routes to china sometime around now?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:54 am

wasn't the FAA going to announce new routes to china sometime around now?

a few weeks ago, and it's not the FAA that makes rulings, its the DOT.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AF022
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:08 am

did the DOT announce?
 
drdivo
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:53 am

This from a good friend in upper management at CO less than 120 seconds ago:

Interesting.
I have not heard anything around here.
There are no internal job postings for China.
Respectfully - the Divo
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:03 am

check out the openings for COMIC....in COAIR....its there!!
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:23 am

Drdivo,
If you have access, check the career opportunities for CAL and CMI...
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:56 am

It's true, the job posting is there.

However, could that be a sales position designed to increase sales and traffic for Air Mikes routes? I would thing that staffing for the proposed CO flights would be CO positions. Particularly since the flights originate in the US.
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:04 am

LOS will be a 762 - that is what they applied for in ewr-los.

no china decision yet. hiring a country manager doesn't mean anything. before the last china agreement was signed in June 04, no non-designated airline could open up sales offices in china, now that restriction is over which doesn't mean that you are necessarily getting it.

it will definitely be between CO & AA. DL doesn't stand a chance.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:34 am


it will definitely be between CO & AA. DL doesn't stand a chance.


It is not even between CO and AA. The chances are both will get seven frequencies each. CO isn't getting all fourteen, that's for sure. The question is, who will get the 2005 frequencies, AA or CO? The loser will get the 2006 frequencies.
a.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:45 am


However, could that be a sales position designed to increase sales and traffic for Air Mikes routes? I would thing that staffing for the proposed CO flights would be CO positions. Particularly since the flights originate in the US.

That's what I heard "may or may not be" Saipan received China ADS (Approved Destination) at Allows Airlines to set up offices in China and promote service HKG-SPN 2x per week..That was not allowed until the MOU was signed between the Governor or Saipan and Chinese Government that just happened a few Weeks ago...1 Position would do well to promote the HKG-SPN-GUM service and HKG-EWR in China..for now..
 
LXsaab2000
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:00 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:49 am

and what about DL ATL-PEK proposed?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:12 am

AF022,

The chances are both will get seven frequencies each.

Does this answer your question? There are 14 total frequencies being
decided. Some in 2005, and some in 2006. AA and CO should get an
equal share, it's just up to the still delayed decision of DOT to make an
official announcement.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:20 am

and what about DL ATL-PEK proposed?

What about it?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 3292
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:40 am

AA777jr............I disagree with equal share.....since AA has access to LHR...we should have access over them for China!!!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: CO To PEK

Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:44 am

Touché CALMSP. One of the most logical things I've seen written on this topic in months. UA and AA have Heathrow, DL squandered their Asian rights, UA and NW have unlimited routes and beyond rights for Japan. Let CO have a piece of something substantial.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: CO To PEK

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:11 pm

Posts 27 and 28 are pretty funny. Don't blame UA/AA for LHR. It doesn't make sense to blame UA/NW for NRT and 5th freedom rights. They could have built up their Asia presence, they're all (DL/AA/CO) now scrambling to increase the pacific rim, because it is booming. I do hope CO gets the rights for 05', but if AA gets it? so be it.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: CO To PEK

Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:27 pm

UAL777:

I don't think either reply 27 or 28 "blames" either UA or AA for LHR, both carriers bought their way into a monopoly-style market where the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. won't allow other carriers to share in the fun. Neither "blames" UA or NW for NRT--UA bought their way in and NW has developed a successful franchise in yet another tightly held market that's been pretty well protected for them since 1952.

China is a similar situation of tight allocations by government decree. Why not let Continental have one too? Reply 26 proposed an "equal share" of the market for just 2 of the 4 or 5 carriers actively pursuing the route authorities available. Doesn't sound very "equal" to me.

Cheers  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: CO To PEK

Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:23 pm

Question: Who has the most amount of code share potential with internal Chinese carriers? Do current code shares exist for AA/CO/DL that will position them more strongly?
Stu
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: CO To PEK

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:06 am

UA and NW have unlimited routes and beyond rights for Japan

WRONG.... they most certainly do NOT.

The Japan/USA bilateral is actually among the most restrictive out there governing new services and new beyond rights and the composition of traffic thereupon. NW/UA were just lucky enough to seize on rights negotiated after the virtual post-war "rape" of Japan.



the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. won't allow other carriers to share in the fun

The US gov has proactively attempted several times to open the party; the UK gov tends to be the primary source of resistance by perpetually selecting the one price for USA/UK OpenSkies that it knows Uncle Same will refuse to pay.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: CO To PEK

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:55 am

Was quoted: UA and NW have unlimited routes and beyond rights for Japan

Was rebutted with: WRONG.... they most certainly do NOT ... The Japan/USA bilateral is actually among the most restrictive out there governing new services and new beyond rights and the composition of traffic thereupon.

You didn't list your source, but I'll list mine: http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/7000/7500/7580/jatww3-2matthews.pdf

1) NW is an "incumbent" carrier under the 1952 bilateral, as are UA and JL, the only difference being UA was grandfathered in with their purchase of PA's routes.

2) Under the 1952 bilateral U.S. carriers were allowed Fifth Freedom rights to 8 destinations beyond Japan. Japan in return was allowed a limited Fifth Freedom to Brazil via Los Angeles.

3) The 1952 agreement was revised in 1996 to include:

a) An unlimited number of U.S. Japan points for two incumbent carriers from each country, which meant ANA would become an incumbent along with JAL, Northwest and United;

b) An orderly expansion of beyond rights for U.S. incumbents in exchange for more beyond points for Japanese carriers;

c) New beyond authority for non-incumbent U.S. carriers;

d) A substantial increase in frequencies for nonincumbents;

e) The U.S. could designate two new MOU carriers immediately and could add a third MOU carrier in two years;

f) Expansion would include some price flexibility to enhance competition;

g) U.S. MOU carriers would get a total of 150 new round trips a week, in addition to unlimited expansion for incumbents;

h) United and Northwest were awarded unlimited Third and Fourth Freedoms in addition to substantial beyond rights for each;

i) The DOT added two new incumbents immediately and a third after two years, with new slots and some Fifth Freedom rights for good measure; and

j) United was a big winner in the negotiations ... in the end, United could use its established position in Japan to pursue any level of realistic growth it might entertain, along with securing an important alliance partner in the newly created incumbent carrier, ANA.

It was further rebutted that:

The US gov has proactively attempted several times to open the party; the UK gov tends to be the primary source of resistance

How one views "resistance" is subjective, since the US is regarding cabotage rights for UK carriers within the US as excessive in exchange for open skies.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
globaldude
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:10 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:49 am

any word yet? anyone know how to look it up on DOT site?
 
co7772wuh
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:13 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:14 am

I was just about to ask the same question . I have been hitting google practically ever hour for days and nothing ! Anyone have some more Classified information regarding CO's possible new routes to PEK and PVG ?

I will be loving life if CO can get EWR to PEK and/or PVG . If CO gets the PEK route this year , I will be able to take advantage of CO's double bounus mile promotion , which i joined in Nov. Almost 30,000 miles a trip !

Awesome web-site .
Thanks
Dave

 
tpaewr
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:57 am

c) New beyond authority for non-incumbent U.S. carriers

this is new to me? Was this cargo only,since to date I think only NW and UA truely go beyond NRT. CO's flt 6/7 are "faux-beyond", since they go IAH-NRT-GUM.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:35 pm

Who got it?

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:12 pm

c) New beyond authority for non-incumbent U.S. carriers
this is new to me?


The list in my post was taken nearly verbatim from Page 13 of the PDF file I linked in the same post. I've not read the actual full text of the agreement (though I did read the entire article), and I'd think the author, Robert Matthews of the FAA, as published in the Journal of Air Transportation World Wide shortly after the 1996 changes were negotiated, would be as good of a source as any. I'm sure the full text of the 1996 bilateral, if you should want to read it, would be available for download from the DOT site.

Remember that airlines hold all sorts of authorities they don't operate at any given time, for one reason or another. The list of U.S. Air Carrier International Route Authorities is 149 pages long, single-space typed, and I'd be hard pressed to call to mind 149 international routes actually operated.

I hope that helps clear up any misconceptions.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:16 pm

SWEET!!!!!.....LONG LIVE CONTINENTAL......I really hope CO continues expansion to more countries so I can have more places to go to...and not have to worry about what airline I am flying on because it will be THE BEST (CO).......
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
co7772wuh
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:13 am

RE: CO To PEK

Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:33 am

I heard this morning on Bloomberg radio that the decision for the new China routes should be made this week ! If I recall correctly , a total of 21 new routes .

Dave

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