N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:59 am

I'm trying to compile a list of the nonstop routes that Southwest once serviced on a regular daily basis but have discontinued. This is what I have so far...any additional info would be appreciated.

Routes Dropped: (?) Means I need confirmation

ABQ-SAT ?
AUS-CRP ?
AUS-RDU
BNA-PBI
BWI-SJC (so far the only route dropped from BWI)
CRP-DAL ?
DAL-HRL
DTW-IND
HOU-MCI
HOU-PVD
IND-STL
ISP-PVD
MCI-MSY ?
MCI-MHT
MCI-RDU
MCI-SJC
MCO-PBI
MSY-STL
RDU-SAT
SAN-SAT
SAN-SLC
SLC-SMF
TUS-OAK

Cites dropped and their routes:

BPT: DAL
DEN: ABQ PHX
DET: Need some info here...anyone?
IAH: DAL SAT ?
SFO: ABQ ELP LAS PHX SAN

Thanks!





 
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drerx7
Posts: 4391
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RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:07 am

Well the only confirmation I can give you is that from the second service to IAH, Love was the only destination. However, I believe WN served IAH first back in the 70s which they did fly to SAT. Service was then moved to HOU with IAH coming online later.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
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RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:09 am

I did not know they served the IND-DTW route...how were the loads?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:11 am

RDU-SAT? I thought it was RDU-SAN.. interesting information..
Aiming High and going far..
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:11 am

>>>DET: Need some info here...anyone?

As best as I can recall, we ran DET-MDW, DET-IND, and DET-BNA...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:14 am

Is there ANY activity at all at DET in terms of passenger planes?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
uswyjer
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:48 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:15 am

BDL-FLL, they have added and dropped it a few times, thought it was seasonal, but they didn't bring it back this year.
 
Tlima
Posts: 76
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RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:18 am

When was HOU-MCI dropped?
- Meden Agan -
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:19 am

BWI-SEA Sat only. I believe it was a test route that WN tried late last year.
Any chance it may get tried again?
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:20 am

Embry-Riddle did an graduate seminar on WN, and Appendix F is an Excel spreadsheet, that while it does contain some date errors, if the best resource I've found for routes WN has started and stopped, and when:

http://www.erau.edu/research/BA590/toc.htm

(Embry-Riddle has never responded to the e-mails I've sent them regarding the numerous errors throughout the text of the seminar materials published.)
International Homo of Mystery
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:20 am

No KDET is out of the PAX loop ever since Pro Air failed... area surrounding KDET is rather run down.


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padcrasher
Posts: 1815
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RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:31 am

JAN

Didn't they pull out of here all together?
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:33 am

Who Padcrasher WN or Pro Air?
 
747firstclass
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:45 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:45 am

ABQ-BNA

I did not know they dropped BWI-SJC, when was that dropped?

BWI-OKC which was Saturdays only and lasted about 6 weeks, if that long.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4598
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:01 am

SJC-BWI and BWI-SJC were dropped when the latest schedule came out on January 16th.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2804
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:01 am

This 1980 Southwest Airlines Route Map confirms that Southwest once operated nonstop flights AUS-CRP and DAL-CRP. They also had nonstop service between LBB and HOU which they no longer operate.

I don't remember WN ever operating ABQ-SAT flights but I could be wrong.

LoneStarMike

 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2804
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:28 am

Regarding the question about whether or not Southwest ever operated IAH-SAT flights, I don't believe they did. Alhough they commenced service in June 1971 serving DAL, IAH and SAT, they started out serving only two legs of the triangle, the DAL-SAT leg and the DAL-IAH leg.

Years ago, there was a paper written by one of the faculty at The University of San Francisco about Southwest's first year. Although the article archived a long time ago, it is still accessible through the internet archive and is a must-read for those interested in the history of Southwest.

Article

This is the part that pertains to service between San Antonio and Houston in Southwest's early years.

Surveys of Southwest's passengers departing from Houston revealed that a substantial percentage would have preferred using the William R Hobby Airport, 12 miles southeast of downtown Houston, rather than the new Houston Intercontinental Airport, 26 miles north of the city. Accordingly, in mid-November, [1971] 7 of Southwest's 14 round-trip flights between Dallas and Houston were transferred to Hobby Airport, thus reopening this old airport to scheduled commercial passenger traffic. Additional schedule revisions made simultaneously included a reduction to four round-trips each weekday of the Dallas-San Antonio flights, inauguration of three daily round-trips on the third leg of the route triangle between Houston (Hobby) and San Antonio, and elimination of the extremely unprofitable Saturday flights on all routes.

BTW, the paper also mentions that at one time Southwest offered a monthly commuter pass.

After operating a year, Southwest management decided to scrutinize the fare structure and its relationship to costs and revenues. They concluded that the airline could no longer afford a $20 fare on daytime flights. New tariffs were therefore filed with the Texas Aeronautics Commission, effective July 9, 1972; these raised Southwest's basic one-way fare from $20 to $26, established a round-trip fare of $50, and offered a $225 Commuter Club Card, providing unlimited transportation on all routes for 30 days.

I wonder how long the Commuter Club Card lasted?

LoneStarMike

 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:52 am

AeroWesty,

I, personally, am the creator of that ERAU Southwest Route Matrix (as with all the route maps in that project). We concluded work on that seminar last year. About fourteen of us did the project, but I made the route matrix, directly from Form41 Database traffic information, along with route maps from the same source.

However, I would be most interested to know (seriously, not sarcastically) of the errors that may exist in our work.

Please feel free to let me know what faults exist! I cannot say that I will change them (since graduation, I have no access to alterations), but I would be interested to know.

FLY DELTA JETS



N 8 6 3 D A

[Edited 2005-02-04 03:55:07]
 
airgeek12
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:54 am

holy crap- that's alot of routes. they dropped a ton of routes out of MCI, and i fly into there alot.
 
N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:17 pm

I did not know they served the IND-DTW route...how were the loads?

This was a route where Southwest got pounded by Northwest. An early lesson in competition at the mega hubs I guess.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8251
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:25 pm

CLE-ORF lasted for something like a month or two. I remember seeing the banner behing the ticket counter touting the service then...bam... nowhere to be found.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8251
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:30 pm

Oh and also the weekend CLE-MCO service was dropped in 2003 I believe.
 
N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:38 pm

RDU-SAT? I thought it was RDU-SAN.. interesting information.

Initially there was one RDU-AUS-SAN RT, later a second RT on the same routing was added. After about six months the second RT was moved to a SAT stop. It was announced just before 9/11 and started on Oct 01. Both cities lost their RDU flights in Mar 03, and SAT lost the SAN trip as well. The SAN-AUS flight was rerouted thru to BWI.

As best as I can recall, we ran DET-MDW, DET-IND, and DET-BNA...

Thanks OPNLguy...I'll add that to the list, but with a ? next to BNA.

When was HOU-MCI dropped?

It was two or three years ago. There was one NS a day and I thought the loads would have been high. Now there are several directs thru TUL I believe. MCI has taken a few hits though. Still not sure about MSY though.

ABQ-BNA

I did not know they dropped BWI-SJC, when was that dropped?

BWI-OKC which was Saturdays only and lasted about 6 weeks, if that long.


Thanks for ABQ-BNA...I was not aware of that one. I'll try and find some dates. As for SJC...the two long haul routes added out of there the last three years didn't work out for some reason...BWI and MCI. But it sure is a busy station.

BWI-OKC was one of those odd weekend only trips just for that schedule. Maybe it will be added as a daily later.

AeroWesty and LoneStarMike...thanks for the info in Replies 9, 15, and 16.





[Edited 2005-02-04 05:48:59]
 
mikesairways
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:49 pm

How come SJC-BWI was dropped, I wouldn't think it was low loads, that seemed like good competition for UA's daily IAD run.
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:11 pm

>>>I'll add that to the list, but with a ? next to BNA

Oh, I'm sure about DET-BNA; the ex- and I flew on it once, it continued on to HOU...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:17 pm

The SJC-BWI flight did pretty well in the morning...During the middle of the week was where we were loosing money...The old routing on that aircraft would go: SJC-BWI-BDL-BWI-SJC...The same aircraft would end up back at SJC...The only problem that I could see on the return flight to SJC was that, the scheduled arrival time was at 2145 local which wouldn't leave enough connecting time to other outbound flights, while the morning flight of course had this option...

Kevin


[Edited 2005-02-04 06:34:26]
 
ckfred
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:28 pm

A little off the subject, but why hasn't WN started MDW-SAT service? Considering that SAT is the 3rd largest metro area in Texas, with a lot of tourist attractions and year-round golf, you would think that route would do very well.
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:30 pm

DTW is still in full swing as far as I know...I have the most current flight schedule in front of me...By the looks of it, there are going to be more direct/transfer routes out of DTW...Meaning if you were to go to LAS you would only have to stop/transfer once, instead of twice...It seems that way for FLL, LAS, LAX, ORF, OAK, MCO, PVD, RDU, and SLC...
Hope this helps ya out...

Kevin

[Edited 2005-02-04 06:37:14]
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:35 pm

>>>DET is still in full swing as far as I know...

DET, last I heard, was pretty much a ghost town as far as scheduled service went...

DTW, on the other hand....  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:36 pm

Ops...I will fix that...Haha..
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4598
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:15 pm

City codes Kevin, city codes! It's back to Dallas for ya!  Big grin Smile/happy/getting dizzy
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:31 pm

The list is now updated with some of the information you all provided.


I'm trying to compile a list of the nonstop routes that Southwest once serviced on a regular daily basis but have discontinued (not looking for "weekend only" or seasonal flights). This is what I have so far...any additional info would be appreciated.

Routes Dropped: (?) Means I need confirmation

ABQ-BNA ?
ABQ-SAT ?
AUS-CRP
AUS-RDU
BNA-PBI
BWI-SJC (so far the only route dropped from BWI)
CRP-DAL
DAL-HRL
DTW-IND
HOU-MCI
HOU-PVD
IND-STL
ISP-PVD (this was the shortest route ever operated, now it's AUS-HOU)
MCI-MSY ?
MCI-MHT
MCI-RDU
MCI-SJC
MCO-PBI
MSY-STL
RDU-SAT
SAN-SAT
SAN-SLC
SLC-SMF
OAK-TUS

Cites dropped and their routes:

BPT: DAL
DEN: ABQ PHX
DET: BNA IND MDW
IAH: DAL
SFO: ABQ ELP LAS PHX SAN

Thanks!
 
747firstclass
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:45 pm

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:54 pm

I have some old WN timetables, going back close to 20 years. However, at this moment, due to some construction going on at my house, they are packed up and locked up until the project is finished. When it is done, I will get them out.
This much I can say the ABQ-BNA flight operated only a short time.However, it did not operate BNA-ABQ which I found odd at that time. The more I think about there is a chance that they did operate ABQ-SAT but my memory os not that clear on that one at all.In addition, when I get the timetables out, I can also see what other cities they operated to from Denver.
 
electraBob
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:03 am

Can anyone confirm that Southwest flew Detroit-Indy?.....I can't remember them ever flying DTW or DET to Indianapolis. Pro Air flew Detroit City to Indianapolis, and Northwest ate them alive on that route.

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:20 am

SAN-HOU

was another route Southwest dropped...
Retorne ao céu...
 
N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:34 am

Can anyone confirm that Southwest flew Detroit-Indy?.....I can't remember them ever flying DTW or DET to Indianapolis. Pro Air flew Detroit City to Indianapolis, and Northwest ate them alive on that route.

Ok I found an old timetable from June 1, 1990. And I was wrong about DTW-IND. It was DET-IND. Southwest had a larger operation at DET than I thought.

Mon-Fri departures from DET according to the June 1, 1990 TT:

MDW - x11
IND - x6
BNA - x2 (there you go OPNLguy...must have been one of those with your ex!)
STL - x4
Total = 23

From DTW in this same TT:

MDW - x6

By 1991 BNA was dropped and by 1992 IND was dropped. Later when DET was closed the STL route was moved to DTW.

Anyone know what ProAir's highest number was in departures from DET?
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:39 am

I think they once flew MAF-LAX and MAF-PHX.

Now, the only nonstops from MAF are to ELP, LAS, ABQ, DAL, AUS, and HOU.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:39 am

>>>I can also see what other cities they operated to from Denver.

I can readily confirm that it was only DEN and ABQ....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
N200WN
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:42 am

The more I think about there is a chance that they did operate ABQ-SAT but my memory os not that clear on that one at all.In addition, when I get the timetables out, I can also see what other cities they operated to from Denver.

If ABQ-SAT was operated it was either in late '83 or early '84. I have Sep 22, 1983 and a May 30, 1984 TT's that don't show it...but I saw a route map on the internet from (I think) an April '84 TT that had the route on the map. I'll just have to wait until your house is finished lol!
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:26 am

I can't believe OAK-TUS didn't work out. There is a huge amount of traffic to the bay area.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
jfrworld
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:21 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:33 am

"Can anyone confirm that Southwest flew Detroit-Indy?.....I can't remember them ever flying DTW or DET to Indianapolis. Pro Air flew Detroit City to Indianapolis, and Northwest ate them alive on that route."'

Yes, when IND was opened by WN in 1989, it was served by STL and DET. The DET route was shifted to MDW about a year or two later.
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: Routes Southwest Dropped

Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:25 am

JAN

Didn't they pull out of here all together?


I hope that we didn't pull out of JAN. Espicially since I sent about 100 people there last night on an a/c that I was turning.
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?

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