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CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:36 am
by FlyHoss
How did I miss this? According to a recent (today, Friday) CBS Marketwatch report, Continental has already canceled the order for 10 Boeing 787s. Is this an error?
Try this link:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BF7D1E0E2%2D582C%2D4697%2DA8CC%2D826638A0D4F4%7D

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:00 am
by AA737-823
Actually, this rumor has been circulating on this board since the day after the announcement.
While I would not be surprised, I would be hugely disappointed in my airline.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:06 am
by JoFMO
Maybe CO realized that they first have to clean their house.

But even if they really canceled the order, it is clear that they will fly the plane in the future. So it shouldn't be seen as a drawback for B nor any A fan should begin to party.

CO will fly 787's, if they ordem them now or later!

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:19 am
by gigneil
I work for a CBS competitor, but I would stand behind their journalistic integrity in general.

We KNEW from the first day that there was a chance this would happen.

I'm just as excited about anyone about CO getting the plane, but their purchase was subject to getting employee deals. If they're not getting the deals, they're not getting the planes.

N

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:28 am
by B777ER
CO lost 47 million dollars in January, they got more pressing/immediate concerns than 10 787's.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:53 am
by scotron11
The story has been corrected. They admit their error and that CO has NOT (yet) cancelled the order for the 787.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:01 pm
by M27
"I'm just as excited about anyone about CO getting the plane"

And it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime!

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:18 pm
by goCOgo
If it is to be cancelled, the order won't be until the board meeting at the end of the month. That's when CO originally said the board would vote. Even then, I doubt we will see them canceling. The CO order gives the 787 legitimacy to many other airlines considering ordering. I think Boeing would renegotiate to give the frames away for the price of an RJ before they would see their one and only US legacy carrier cancel their order two months after it was made.

Interestingly, the article said ExpressJet was making good money, and that it helped offset the losses. I imagine we will see even more CO mainline go the COex.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:32 pm
by dynkrisolo
If they haven't signed the final contract, how can they cancel the order? From day 1, the order was conditional upon achieving a certain amount of cost saving ($500m?) by Feb 28 with various unions.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:42 pm
by N766UA
I imagine we will see even more CO mainline go the COex.

Just what CLE needs. However, if COEx is making all the money... we must be sittin' pretty as a hub...  Big thumbs up

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:01 pm
by DfwRevolution
I think Boeing would renegotiate to give the frames away for the price of an RJ before they would see their one and only US legacy carrier cancel their order two months after it was made.

I'm sure they would  Insane

It doesn't reflect on poorly Boeing when Continental has to cancel an order because they can't find the funds to purchase new assets. The 787's is plenty legitimate without CO's order for 10, which BTW, is eclipsed by NH, JL, and China.

The CO order gives the 787 legitimacy to many other airlines considering ordering.

Bull....

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:10 pm
by SWISSER
Talking about CO,

how are the USA-Europe yields in general, CO fans?

I know the BRU-EWR flight is a big succes with the 764!
But that's all!

I believe all american carriers and flights are doing a good job out of Brussels;
2 DL flighs ATL-JFK
2 AA flights ORD-JFK
1 UA flight IAD
1 CO flight EWR

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:12 pm
by LN-MOW
And now .... :

''(This story has been updated to correct an earlier version. Continental hasn't canceled a recent order to buy 10 Boeing jets, as was incorrectly reported.)

 Laugh out loud

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:27 pm
by zippyjet
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BF7D1E0E2%2D582C%2D4697%2DA8CC%2D826638A0D4F4%7D

So Co had a shitty financial quarter; but unless there is something hidden, I didn't see anything even referring to the Boeing 787. The canceled order is just one of those rumors/urban legends that float around. Think of the Eddy Haskell becoming porn star in gay porn movies rumor or that fake and clever Internet phenomenon http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa072301a.htm
Man Beef yummy yummy.

And, don't forget the vicious rumor that almost downed one of the nation's largest consumer product corporations.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp#add

Look for a CO 787 taxiing to a jet way near you in the near future.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:57 pm
by 787


It's GOING to look nice!


RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:10 pm
by NIKV69
787,

What a picture!! That is a beautiful plane. Gordo would be so proud.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:05 pm
by USAIRWAYS321
Gordo would be so proud.

It's not like he's dead or anything...

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:52 pm
by scotron11
It wasn't a shitty quarter. It was a terrible "month"! $47M loss for January alone.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:15 pm
by sendMEtoLAS
wow. 47M? That's a lot for a carrier the size of CO.

I don't know about the whole picture in the US. Fuel is still high, today oil was back up to $47 a barrel. It just doesn't look good.

I think CO is one of the best run legacy carriers. I can't see them ordering 787's if they can't afford it. They know better.

Didn't they back out of some 738's recently? Or did that go through?

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:16 pm
by STT757
The original article has been corrected, CO has not cancelled the 787 order.

Check here..

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BF7D1E0E2%2D582C%2D4697%2DA8CC%2D826638A0D4F4%7D

Some writers mistake.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:18 pm
by IAHtown
Why would CO cancel an order for 2009 because they had a terrible month in 2005? The deposits CO has placed on those planes aren't big enough to make much difference in their current financial situation. Maybe I'm missing something, but this does sound like a lot of speculation on the part of people who don't like CO. Anyway, it's good to see CBS is at least checking their facts, even if they do wait until after the article is published.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:45 am
by phollingsworth
If semantics are your field, CO can't cancel their 787 order because they have not yet actually ordered the aircraft. Only the LOI has been signed. The actual firm order would involve money changing hands. This probably requires the approval of the BOD. What could feasibly happen is CO decides to not order or postpone the 787 order based upon their current and projected future cash position. That and to use the 787 as leverage in any negotiations they engage in with their employees.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:50 am
by FlyHoss
SendMEtoLAS,
You wrote, "Didn't they back out of some 738's recently? Or did that go through?" I believe it was AA/AMR that delayed some 738 orders. CO/CAL is accelerating the delivery of some (6?) 737-800 in 2006; these aircraft became available as a result of AA/AMRs delay.

IAHtown,
"Anyway, it's good to see CBS is at least checking their facts, even if they do wait until after the article is published." Bravo, well said. I did email the author of the Marketwatch article and ask for his source, he has yet to reply, though a corrected article has been issued (no retraction, per se, though of the original).

Expect even more "doom and gloom" from CAL management especially while the employee negotiations are continuing.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:34 am
by B777ER
Not to take over the thread but you gotta admit, in looking at that pic above and the CO livery on their 777 for example, they have one sharp professional looking livery. I hope they don't change it for years to come.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:03 am
by avek00
"Expect even more "doom and gloom" from CAL management especially while the employee negotiations are continuing."

I wouldn't describe it as gloom-and-doom, but rather CO's new reality if the negos continue to drag on - CO has learned from the negotiation mistakes made by UA, US, AA, and DL, and won't wait until the airline literally has no choice but to file bankruptcy before at least threatening to do so.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:55 am
by N1120A
>However, if COEx is making all the money... we must be sittin' pretty as a hub...<

They are making money because CO is shifting it to them  Big grin

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:26 pm
by rparker537
Coex doing well doesn't help - Coex is a now a completely separate, independent comany.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:37 pm
by goCOgo
Rparker537,

While COex was spunoff and made its own IPO, I do believe that CO is still the majority shareholder, and thus has control over COex. They do have to share those profits with the other XJT stockholders, though.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:43 am
by FlyHoss
Continental is no longer the majority owner of ExpressJet (XJT)(d.b.a. Continental Express) and has recently placed about $51 million of XJT stock into the Continental employee pension. I don't have the percentage that CO still owns in XJT, but I believe it's 19%. Jim Ream, XJT's president was previously Continental Micronesia's president and was in senior management at CO before that. Also, CO has a capacity purchase agreement with XJT for 100% of the capacity; CO sets the schedules, cities, etc.

RE: CBS Marketwatch Reports CO Cancels 787

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:58 am
by Boeingfan
No decision has been made, the order is conditional as stated above, and CO may use as leverage with their staff to gain, more reductions and productivity increases. The 787 orders may be delayed several years, but CO most likely would take the aircraft as they are so efficiency minded having the youngest fleet amongst the US legacy carriers.

CO is doing well on their international, just the domestic market yields are suffering, and it is becoming cheaper to park a 737-800, substitute an Express RJ or pull the market all together. Let the other carrier take the blood, and save the fuel, maintenance and staff expense.

The question to ask, is why hasn't AA ordered the 787? They are in the best financial shape of the legacy carriers. This may be due to prudent, and realistic expectations out of the cost vs. return on new aircraft these days.

Once fares go up, as they should soon, then more carriers will increase mainline flying and order of new equipment.

It just does not make sense now, to be ordering for 4 -5 years down the road, when the road is still looking unpaved in front of you. What we need is to beable to turn Corn into a kerosene based petroleum product (similar to what is done in the US Midwestern States for ethanol?)

Bf