khenleydia
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787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:00 am

I was wondering if anyone had heard any news updates regarding Boeing's modified 747 to transport 787 components. Also, just curious if anyone knew what the largest 787 section they were planning on fitting in it is. For those that have no idea what I am referring to, here is the link:
Boeing Press Release with pictures

Thanks.
KhenleyDIA
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Spacepope
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:29 am

Boeing has already bought back one of the 3 747s that they plan to convert. No idea what kind of work has been carried out on it so far.
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kc135topboom
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:44 pm

It does look unusual, though. Like the A-306 Balugas Airbus modified for the A-380 componets and the old C-97 Guppys once used for B-747 and C-5 componets.

In keeping with whale and fish names for these highly modified aircraft, what will Boeing call it? The B-744 Humpback?

 
khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:01 am

Humpback would be a good name, especially with the way it will look. However, to convey its sheer size, maybe they should call it "The Blue Whale".

I have always wanted to see all of the oversized aircraft up close. That would be amazing!
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khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 am

Well, it's as if Boeing knew I was asking and posted a new press release regarding this very plane type:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050217g.html

Thanks for the previous answers.

KhenleyDIA
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qwerty
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:20 am

I like 744Humpback, but how about "The only 380-sized plane that's really needed."
 
khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:18 am

You know, I wonder.... Will this plane set any new records in size? They don't really have specs as to the end size of the airplane. Will it need longer wings?

KhenleyDIA
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 am

>Like the A-306 Balugas Airbus modified for the A-380 componets<

The Beluga existed way before tha A380. They built them after the Supper Guppys they were using had basically reached the end of their life and they wanted to keep on air shipping aircraft parts. This is for all their aircraft series, not just the A380. Also, they make money with them shipping outsized stuff in for other businesses
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khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:01 am

Anyone know where Boeing bought back the 747s from? Where do they normally buy back planes from?
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trex8
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:50 am

at least one of the 747s they plan on using is a CI (China Airlines) 747-409 Pratt powered which they traded in for the 4 new ones, GE powered, they ordered in the last 2 years (which includes the one delivered in Dec with the Dreamliner livery). This older aircraft would be one of the 4 that CI have leased since their delivery in @ 91 from the Taiwanese CAA who purchased them to fix the trade imbalance with the US.

I also saw an article where someone at Boeing said one of the airframes was presently in "China". Unclear if he was mixing up China Airlines (Taiwan) with "China" or Air China is also trading one in as well.
 
khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:12 pm

Well, here is the latest version of what this new Boeing Beast will look like:




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bill142
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (reply 2):
Like the A-306 Balugas Airbus modified for the A-380 componets



Actually alot of A380 components won't fit inside the Beluga's. You will find that they are used mostly for shipping components of the othe Airbus aircraft
 
SNATH
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:08 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (reply 3):
maybe they should call it "The Blue Whale".


And they should paint it in the Dreamliner livery to complete the transformation!  Wink/being sarcastic

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CM767
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:17 pm

Why not use the AN-124?, any ideas if the lease of these would be cheaper than development of the 747 component transport?

I read on the news release announcing that Gamesa would be doing design work for it, that the back would swing. That would be something to see!

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050217g.html


Humm, and few people say that the second deck could not be expanded much more... What could be done with that ?????  Acting devilish
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Stoney
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:40 pm

Hi y'all

What are these thing sticking out about in the middle between the wing and the back? Are these something like locks to hold the back in place?

Greetz
Stoney
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IanatSTN
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (reply 2):

In keeping with whale and fish names for these highly modified aircraft, what will Boeing call it? The B-744 Humpback?


How about the Boeing 747-400 Sperm Whale? lol

I agree with CM767, why not lease a AN124, surely it would be cheaper than redesigning a plane?

Cheers,
Ian.
 
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting Ianatstn (reply 15):
agree with CM767, why not lease a AN124, surely it would be cheaper than redesigning a plane?


For the same reason that Airbus built and uses the Beluga, i.e. items being shipped will not fit the Antonov.
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khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:24 am

I imagine that another part of the reason for not using the Antonov is that the opening might also restrict what they want to use. To answer someone else's question, I think the big bulges between the tail and the wing are either the locks of the hinges that will open the body up.

As for it being costly to do this redesign, maybe they will also be able to lease them out from time to time once they have 3 or more going. Help recover the cost. Granted, I am sure they are including that cost in the 787 development.

KhenleyDIA
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:55 am

Does anyone know when these planes will make it's first flight. It'll be very interesting to see it in the air!
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ContinentalFan
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting Stoney (reply 14):
What are these thing sticking out about in the middle between the wing and the back? Are these something like locks to hold the back in place?


Looks like it's either the hinge or the latch on the other side of the hinge. Boeing had always said that the back would swing open to the side (as opposed to up like w/ the nose door on 747Fs, C5s, etc.)
 
khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting NYC777 (reply 18):
Does anyone know when these planes will make it's first flight. It'll be very interesting to see it in the air!


I wish I knew. I would imagine before the 787 flies. One would think that it will fly a good amount of time before the 787 since they will need to test it and make sure it will work as well as planned. 2006? It certainly won't win any awards for looks, but it would be pretty amazing to see.

KhenleyDIA
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:48 am

Yeah looking at the press release it sounds like th modifications are to start in the second half of this year so it'll probably fly in early '06.
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RayChuang
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:00 am

I think Boeing may actually have more demand for the 747 Large Cargo Freighter than they originally anticipated.

Note a couple of factors:

1. The Airbus A300B4-600ST Super Transporter is too short-ranged and cannot carry certain components due to the relatively short length of the plane.

2. The An-124's now in commercial service are in such high demand that it's very hard to find one available for outsized cargo transport.

As such, Boeing could build more than just three 747 LCF's. It would be ironic that Airbus ends up buying a small number of 747 LCF's so they could transport A380 components that won't fit the A306ST and also transport Rolls-Royce Trent engines from the UK and General Electric and Pratt & Whitney engines from the USA to their production lines in Toulouse and Hamburg. That is unless Airbus has plans to build an even larger Super Transporter based on the A340-300 design but with an A340-500 wing.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:56 pm

Quoting RayChuang (reply 22):
1. The Airbus A300B4-600ST Super Transporter is too short-ranged and cannot carry certain components due to the relatively short length of the plane.

2. The An-124's now in commercial service are in such high demand that it's very hard to find one available for outsized cargo transport.


It will be interesting to see if there is more demand for the new beast other than tranporting 787 parts.

I wonder what the range of the plane will be. Surely it won't be the range of the new freighter. I am only thinking this due to the aerodynamic design of the plane.

KhenleyDIA
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gigneil
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting RayChuang (reply 22):
also transport Rolls-Royce Trent engines from the UK and General Electric and Pratt & Whitney engines from the USA to their production lines in Toulouse and Hamburg.


These engines fit fine in Belugas, which is how the Trents get shipped I imagine.

The ones from the US can get shipped in an AN-124, or on any existing 747F.

N
 
SATL382G
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting RayChuang (reply 22):
2. The An-124's now in commercial service are in such high demand that it's very hard to find one available for outsized cargo transport.


The Antonovs are in high demand because of present activity in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Indian Ocean. Could be a very different story in a years time.
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airgeek12
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Bill142 (reply 11):

Actually alot of A380 components won't fit inside the Beluga's. You will find that they are used mostly for shipping components of the othe Airbus aircraft

Ya.. the A380 componets won't fit in the beluga. The Beluga does transport parts for (i think) the A330s and A340s though so it must still be pretty big!

So Airbus is going to use a modified Boeing to move parts to make another Airbus? If you ask me if they do that Airbus will sound like fools, and it will make Boeing seem like the "power horse" and the answer to everything- even building another aircraft for another company. But maybe it's just me.

-----



You could put windows in that baby and get a A340 look-alike! lol
 
gigneil
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting Airgeek12 (reply 26):

Ya.. the A380 componets won't fit in the beluga.


Lots of them do, and the ones that don't won't fit in the 747 LCF either.


Quoting Airgeek12 (reply 26):
So Airbus is going to use a modified Boeing to move parts to make another Airbus?


No, no they're not.

N
 
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solnabo
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:46 am

It´s not a pretty sight I must say, but I guess it will do the job needed: flying half of 787 to Everett.

Micke  Big grin
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OB1504
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting Airgeek12 (reply 26):
even building another aircraft for another company


Weren't the original Airbus Super Guppies modified Boeing 367 Stratocruisers?
 
N863DA
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:45 am

>>Weren't the original Airbus Super Guppies modified Boeing 367 Stratocruisers?<<

Well... they were modified Boeing 377 Stratocruisers  Smile

Just being picky; yes, Boeing made the original Super Guppies (and the Aero-Spacelines version, too).

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khenleydia
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:20 am

Boeing has posted another update with pictures.










Here is the link to the complete article:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050222g.html
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:54 am

Boeing has decided the airplane will remain without a livery until an operator for the airplanes is chosen later this year. "We know Boeing will not operate these airplanes," Strode said. "We are talking with a number of interested parties, and we expect that branding of the airplane will be part of the negotiation process."

This is interesting. If Boeing outsources the operations of the LCF to say an existing 747 operating airline say Singapore, then it might make Singapore more interested in buying the 787. The ops of these airplanes would be pretty lucrative IMO as Singapore would have to provide the crew and some support but the maintenance and updating of the plane would be taken care of by Boeing and the 747 subcontractors.

Also consider having the Singapore Airlines logo along with Boeing on this plane would make for some impressive advertizing on a very large airplane.
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gigneil
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:29 am

Singapore is not an option. They have no freight cabotage rights in the US.

It will have to be a US carrier that can bring fuse sections from Voight, as well as the wings from Japan and other sections from Alenia in Italia.

I would think Northwest would be a good choice, but Evergreen and some other freight dogs here in the US probably have the necessary rights.

N
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Component Air Transport - Modified 747

Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:40 am

Singapore was just an example. The point being that Boeing awarding the contract to operate the LCF on their behalf can also have a positive effect on 787 sales to that carrier.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.

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