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L410Turbolet
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting Mig21UMD (reply 41):
Why is Croatia as a holiday destination only finding its way to people by word of mouth and only as a summer destination when it also has so much winter holidaying potential?


That could be the impression in Australia or the US. The assets of Croatia as a tourist destination are well known around Europe since the times of Yugoslavia. Anyway, glad to hear that the news about war being over (for a a decade or so) finally made it across the ocean.

Quoting Mig21UMD (reply 48):
Its almost amazing how only two years ago I would get a weird stare by somebody if I suggested a visit to Croatia should be included in there European itinerary, to posters of Croatia regularly being seen in Australian travel agents today.


Amazing??? I'd say sad.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:39 am

MiG21UMD: pardon the reality check, but UAE does not equal Croatia in any dream Big grin. The fact that OU is still largely state-owned means that any major change will involve the citizens of Croatia dicing out more cash with their taxes - and the ones presently in place are bad enough.

Quoting Mig21UMD (reply 48):
To suggest OU will never expand herself beyond Europe is just wrong. If it is done reasonalbly and with an excellent marketing campaign it would be successful.


I'm not so sure about. The initial cost of acquiring a LR aircraft, plus the cost of implementing its operation, plus the ground equipment and infrastructure needed, plus the badly developed crew training, would raise the ticket price considerably for the first few months of operations - and most passengers would rather go to say FRA or LHR and then switch onto a short-haul flight than pay more for a rare, sporadic direct flight (many tourists are still budget travelers).

As somebody previously posted, the fact that OU had a positive budget in the last year isn't a cause for a shopping spree - somebody had to pay those Buses in the first place and credit is a way of life here. It'll take at least a few years to fully pay all those aircraft - and the sooner you pay, the less interest you have and the plane is cheaper. And buying an A330 isn't like buying an average family car  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.

Besides, aside from the fact that Croatia has some slim skiing potential, what will that widebody do during the winter? The regular passenger loads can comfortably be handled by OU's present fleet at a fraction of the price. The only thing would be to lease it, like JAT is doing with its DC-10s.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
CroFlight
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:14 pm

Talking about potential outside summer, I'm very well informed about the options since it's my company's core business.
We work with health/wellness/spa tourism, which is a GREAT POTENTIAL in Croatia, but not used at all... We are chartering the aircrafts on our own risk for this operation for the last 3 years, and if there was any regular flight service between Croatia and Scandinavia (our main market), belive me, that would increase our business few 100 percent, and present a huge increase of the tourist traffic for some coastal and continental destinations in Croatia.

I had a few requests from "far away" countries for the possible cooperation in this kind of tourism, three of them from Australia, two from US. The problem is, of course, air transport. Older people, or people with medical problems, cannot use two/three stops flights to Croatia, and chartering the aircraft on those long routes would be a huge risk for much bigger and stronger companies than ours.

So... there's a potential, just behind the door, who will open it?

CroFlight
 
mig21umd
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:04 pm

mmmm,

Where do I begin? Lets start with L410Turbolet.

Didn't mean to offend but when I stated the world. I was thinking about Australian and the America's only because I am aware of Croatia being a popular tourist spot with the Europeans. I did not mean to direspect other continents especially the Europeans, a continent I have a lot of admiration for. I am also aware that the war has been over for ten years and that great progress has been made in Croatia on the domestic front, something I can comment on by witnessing first hand, spending time in Croatia in 1994 (when the war was on) again in 1998 (the world cup parties were awesome) and in 2002. (where Croatia was just brilliant.... Apart from the coastal traffic).
Australians have taken some time to begin to accept Croatia as a tourist destination and many still do not completely understand the situation in Croatia at present. So hopefully L410Turbotet you can understand why im amazed when all of a sudden there is an interest for Croatia in the Great Southern Land.
I can not understand why you believe it is sad.... Better late than never hey!

Now for tripleDelta....

Regards to the reality check comment. I was only using the UAE and Emirates as an example to try to explain that a product, marketed well can out do the publics expectations. I didn't mean to financially compare the two countries.
Honestly. Who would of believed that an Airline in the late 80's with only a 10 million dollar check from the Dubai royal family would become the success they are today!

True; the investment by the Croatian gov that would be needed into the airline the airports and all the goes with it may seem excessive but if the benefits are there in the future, it should be taken seriously...

I would not like to see and im not asking for taxes to be raised more in Croatia to benefit aviation in Croatia.

As for the A330's in winter; CroFlight knows exactly what do with them. But seriously, again if set up well I strongly believe there could be an all year market. Why do you feel Zagreb, or any other airport in that region, could not establish her self as a small hub for the part of Europe.


JU101

With the dire situation of the Yugo economy in the late 80's, it is not that hard to believe that tourism did account for a large percentage of their GPD. I remember reading that it was the second largest industry at that time after the Arms industry. I will try to find where I read this to confirm.

Now back to skiing in Croatian I have two words for you. Janica Kostelic! So I assume she gained the her skills winning 3 gold and a silver at the last winter Olymics and many other world champion ships, by running down the rocky slopes of Dalmacia???? And it would have been very hard for Croatia to host the FIS 2004/05 Skiing World Cup (on Medvednica mountain, not fare from Zagreb) if Croatia did not have appropriate skiing fields.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you long to return
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:02 am

MiG-21UMD: nobody's doubting that this may benefit Croatia in the long run. Personally I'd love to see some (but not too many) widebodies around here, if nothing than for the spotting opportunities  Big thumbs up. But now is simply not the time. There are far more important areas where that amount of taxpayer money (that will inevitably be the backbone of all major changes involving state-owned companies) could be put - areas that, unless they are tended to, would dampen tourism even if OU was the size and strength of LH (read: corruption, unprofessionalism, employee education). In 5 years maybe, but now it would be running in front of the herd, as a saying here goes.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
JU101
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:09 pm

Mig21UMD,

I base my statements regarding the economy on strong facts published by the governments of the respective nation, and double check the information available from international institutions. You should not base your knowledge on a few articles, as journalists tend to write on emotions rather than facts. I am positive that tourism was not a leading contributor to the GDP in Yugoslavia.

Furthermore I do not doubt that Croatia does have some ski slopes, however, this sector does not have serious potential because of its close proximity to Slovenia. As for Janica Kostelic, she did not prepare for the Olympics in Croatia. Take a look at her official web presentation.

TripleDelta underscored some important points. I think that OU could not make significant strides from its present position, as with JU, without some form of privatization.
 
mig21umd
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:54 pm

TripleDelta,

I too believe its too soon for OU to get wide bodies. In the future it would be good to see Smile/happy/getting dizzy. I do also understand the situation in Croatia and that tax payers money needs to be spent wisely, hence spending money on airports and OU would have to be done within reason.

JU101,

Janica Kostelic started skiing and first competed in Zagreb, this too from her web site. Where she trained and prepared for the olymics is irrelevant. Many athletes move training to conditions more closely resembling the conditions they will compete in.

Also, for you I will triple check my facts in the future before I post them but I would also like to say that we should stray back to aviation and away from national politics.  Smokin cool Hope we are cool.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you long to return
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:57 pm

MiG21UMD: unfortunately, both OU and airports will have to wait quite a while. The current aviation priority is acquiring SAR and medevac helicopters as the Croatian SAR and GSS (mountain rescue) services have a dwindling number of operational helicopters (3 20-year old Mi-8s, last time I checked) - and those are supposed to serve the whole of Croatia. There were 5 last season, one had a lading mishap and the other was grounded because of tech troubles if I recall correctly. There were a few accidents and deaths of foreign tourists over the last few seasons because no medevac helicopters were available.

There was something about the Cro government buying two EC135s in the paper this morning, though I didn't get a chance to read that through  Yeah sure
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
9A-CRO
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 am

As of those EC-135:
A new company Heli kompanija (HIKO) was formed and they will take their first two helicopters in June.

There will be 10 helicopters total and these will be based in
Zagreb, Rijeka, Korcula, Zadar and Slavonski
Brod.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
 
JU101
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:33 am

Mig21UMD,

I hardly think that we have diverted into politics, but, in any event, this discussion has been very enlightening!

Btw, I heard that Skyservice will once again fly charters from Toronto to Belgrade and Zagreb this summer with the Boeing 757, via Dublin.
 
gkirk
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RE: Croatia Airlines Too Small?

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:42 am

Surely it's better to be small and doing well, than big and doing poorly?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!

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