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hjulicher
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A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:31 am

Likely, to never happen, but I was wondering whether DTW was certified to receive these mammoths. They just completeted a new runway a couple years ago, I would think that it is big enough to receive these planes. BTW, is there a website that lists statistics of airports?
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drerx7
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:37 am

Even if they receive them--runway space was never the issue--most airports that have 747 ops can receive the A380--its gate and taxiway space that becomes the issue.
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KLMA330
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:41 am

Detroit will have many A380's.... once NWA orders them, so it may be a bit.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:45 am

According to the FEB in-flight mag on NW planes, their C E O says at this time, NW has NO INTEREST in the A 380 for their fleet.
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S12PPL
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:47 am

The A380 will never fit into NW's fleet plans.

Why do people keep insisting it does?
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burnsie28
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:02 am

Detroit said they will not make arragenments to allow the A380 to serve it. NW wont order either, not only was it said in this months magazine, but Richard Anderson said it long long ago.
 
KLMA330
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:20 am

NW may have said they won't order the A380 now, however, never is a very long time. Eventually, they'll need it to connect Asia to the US, as NW has always been the number 1 US airline to the Orient, and Asian demand for air travel will not diminish in the years to come.
 
columba
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:38 am

Never say never. At the moment Northwest is the most likely US airliner to operate the A380 someday. Their main market is Asia which is market with a lot of growth in the future. So it is not unlikely that they will buy the A380 in some years
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wdleiser
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:42 am

They are one of 2 US carriers operating 747's, they operate long haul A330's, many of their 74's are starting to age so I see the possibilty of NWA having A380's possible.


DTW may get some A380's if LH flies them there.
 
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:53 am

PLEASE!!!!!
The 747-400's ARE NOT BEGINNING TO SHOW THEIR AGE!

DTW is not going to see A380's for a long time to come. NW IS NOT INTERESTED IT THEM, THEY DO NOT FIT THEIR ROUTE STRUCTURE. End of story.

Everyone thinks just because they operate the 744 and they like Airbus products, they will get the A380......NOT TRUE

LH will NOT fly the A380 to DTW, not anywhere close. Only the largest of the largest markets will get them Sending an A380 to DTW would be the dumbest idea yet.

DTW is not planning to accommidate the A380.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:02 am

Capital letters ? Such anger... Can't we all just get along ? Anyway, it seems to me that many airports are flattering themselves into believing that they have the market for an A380. I don't think that DTW is one of those airports.
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toltommy
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 am

Um..... I don't recall the poster stating that NW would be the one flying the plane in.... It was just a question as to whether the airport could support it. Since AF will be starting service this year, and they are a SkyTeam member, it's not unrealistic to think that the plane could make a DTW appearance! could the airport support ANY A380, even if it wasn't painted in NW colors?

You NW people sure are touchy when it comes to any kind of fleet talk... Sheesh!
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nwhpdtw
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:48 am

Does anyone have any estimates for the costs and timeline to make an airport A380 ready? I agree with others, I don't see DTW getting any 380's other than maybe an ORD diversion, but things can change in the future. If 10 years or so down the road NW or someone else were to want to bring 380s in, how much time do you think it would take to prepare an airport like DTW (or ATL or some of the other airports mentioned in recent discussions).
 
Airportgal
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:02 am

BTW, is there a website that lists statistics of airports?

US airports

http://www.airnav.com/
 
neilalp
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:08 am

Well back to the ORIGINAL question at hand...can DTW handle an A380. Currently DTW doesn't have the correct gate space and taxiway clearances for the A380. I thought I remember reading that LAX, ORD, and JFK were allowing about 2.5-3 years for the construction needed to expand. I thought Virgin held off on their orders because they didn't feel LAX would be ready in time for second quarter of 2006. I'm sure the time varies, but 2.5-3 years seems about right. They don't have to make a new terminal just makes some minor adjustments.

And like stated never say never. With the Auto Show in Detroit, major car companies, and a strong travel market those are all factors which might draw the occasional A380. Don't' expect a daily flight, but who would have thought EL AL would have flown a 777 and a 747 on the same day for a charter flights with for Detroit passengers for two Summers now...plus who would have thought the Concorde would have made an appearance a few years back. However, don't gamble on it!
 
hjulicher
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:41 am

Detroit is one of the fastest growing airports in the country. It's one of the few profitable airports. Check this detnews article for more info, http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0502/08/C01-83228.htm. If you don't want to read it, passenger numbers are up 7.5%, from 32,738,900
(2003) to 35,187,517 (2004). If passenger travel continues to pickup, and the airport continues to lower its landing fees, maybe Detroit with its new terminals will attract new airlines because of the superb dynamics and management of the airport. We shall see what happens in the upcoming years.

[Edited 2005-02-18 02:50:46]
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dc8jet
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:47 am

I had heard sometime ago that there were several gates at the new terminal that could handle the 380 .
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:26 pm

The International gates at the Mac Terminal can handle the A380. There is plenty of space between them. When they park two 747s side by side at the Mac, there is plenty of area between the wingtips of each. The International gates are dual gates that can raise to different levels.


As for the new runway at DTW (4L/22R), it probably would NOT be used for the A380 since it is only 150 ft wide and 10,000 ft long. The A380 would more likely operate off of 4R/22L since it is 12,000 ft long and 200 ft wide.

As for anyone bringing in A380s to DTW, I doubt it would be LH. They are down to an A330 now.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Emirates or another Mideast Airline may one day serve DTW with an A380 since Detroit has a HUGE Arabic population.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:49 am

I do think that down the road we may see A380-800's from EK and NW operate out of DTW. Certainly from EK, given that the Detroit metro area has a huge Arab expatriate population; EK could route between DXB and DTW with a possible westbound stop for fuel at SNN.
 
su184
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:12 am

Why not the cargo version, like Neilalp mentioned in reply 14 the Auto Show can draw car makers to use it to ferry cars to be displayed there. Just a thought.
 
Meteorologist
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:57 am

I have to agree with RayChuang, the Arab population around Detroit is a tremendous econmic force. That having been said, I'd expect to see an A380 on that route from one of the Middle Eastern carriers LONG before anything else. That having been said, I really can't fathom Northwest buying them...if I'm not mistaken, many of their 744s aren't even that old AT ALL.
 
mtnmanmakalu
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:13 am

Yea, the A380 in DTW... They could also bring the "Edsel" back and drive it around Romulus too.... They both are similar in looks!!!

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PlaneGuy27
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:26 am

Check out ACI's website at http://www.airports.org
 
ouboy79
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:45 am

I'm just waiting for the hypothetical situation...if NW gets them and then has to divert them due to weather. Typically, if weather is okay (which is usually is) the flights divert to TOL. Otherwise you are looking at CLE, FWA, and maybe even CMH...FNT and LAN get a few too. I would assume that the feasibility of the aircraft in a diversion situation would also have to come into account. Meaning airports with ramps that can hold the whales.

Of course...it's always nice to keep adding more to the collection...
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isitsafenow
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:45 am

OuBoy79...GRR could handle the big stuff, but not FNT or LAN.
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NW7E7
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:01 am

Only LAX, SFO, JFK, and ORD are capable of handling the A380.

It would not be worth the money to upgrade DTW's structure to accomodate a daily A380 since it will be from an airline other than NW because NW will NOT order them.

By the time the NW 747's get old and tired Boeing will have already come out with a good replacement(747ADV?).

NW7E7
 
iwok
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:04 pm

The main reason that the A380 will be able to operate out of DTW is the following:

Diamler-Chrysler has its US headquarters in Detroit. Daimler-Chrysler is a 30% owner of EADS which is an 80% owner of Airbus, maker of the A380. Obviously they have the clout to get DTW certified to accept the A380; kind of showing the flag.

iwok
 
hjulicher
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:17 pm

In response to NW7E7,

It would not be worth the money to upgrade DTW's structure to accomodate a daily A380 since it will be from an airline other than NW because NW will NOT order them.

by the time the A380 starts flying, DTW will be most likely finished with it's new international/domestic terminal for the 'other' airlines. The new terminal plans to incorporate both international and domestic flights, and thus I believe once finished, Royal Jordanian, BA, and LH, will be moving back, so that the McNamara terminal remains exclusively NW and skyteam. I think AF will fly into McNamara though because of connection logisitics. I don't forsee adding the upgrades will be too difficult since terminal design and construciton has not begun. And DTW after checking airnav, I think DTW has the runways and infrastructure to support an A380.
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nudelhirsch
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:21 pm

First - an upgraded runway is only a fraction of the deal when it comes to handling a 380. There is a tiny little bit more involved than just a strip of concrete.

Second - why should either NWA or DTW ever talk about the 380? DTW is certainly not enough of a destination to justify the 380. Also NWA runs large enough planes, they would probably rather increase frequency than size, as they are not using hubs as congested as ORD or so...

Third - Daimler Chrysler owns an Airbus Corporate Jet or even a couple, flying STR-DTW on a daily base. So would any airline get an A380 down there just because DC occupies some offices there???? C"mon!

Fourth - how long will it take until we have dicussed each airport's A380 situation for the 8th time, before we start a new round?

the Dan
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dtw9
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:31 pm

In response to Iwok and Hjulicher, First Chrysler has no, repeat, no clout at Metro,they don't even fly their company ops out of DTW,they fly out of PTK. As far as BA,LH,RJ moving back to the new terminal, Not going to happen. The new International gates are for Charter ops, Not mainline International service. Maybe in the long run they will be needed for additional International carriers IE, Mexicana Aeromexico or some other rumored carrier, but for now its just for Charters
 
iwok
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:31 pm

Third - Daimler Chrysler owns an Airbus Corporate Jet or even a couple, flying STR-DTW on a daily base. So would any airline get an A380 down there just because DC occupies some offices there???? C"mon!

Diamler-Chrysler (DCX), which is one of the major owners of EADS (and hence Airbus) has every interest in getting new airports open to the A380. That is why it occurred to me that they must be involved.

in response to Iwok and Hjulicher, First Chrysler has no, repeat, no clout at Metro,they don't even fly their company ops out of DTW,they fly out of PTK.

They fly company ops out of PTK because before the "merger" with Diamler, Chrysler used to do a lot of their corporate travel out of PTK (I think they even had their own airline called PentaStar?). I disagree that DCX has no clout at DTW. They are one of the major corporations in Michigan and it would not make sense for them to get the A380 into PTK, hence I assume that they will focus their efforts on DTW.

http://www.michigan-airports.us/MI/Wayne-County-Airport.asp

DTW is spending a whole lot of money on improvements and already has a 10,500ft runway (out of a total of 6 runways.)
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:12 pm

Quoting Iwok (reply 30):
Diamler-Chrysler (DCX), which is one of the major owners of EADS (and hence Airbus) has every interest in getting new airports open to the A380. That is why it occurred to me that they must be involved.


Sure. And their President Schrempp is known for spendin unnecessary cash to open DTW for the 380...
Have you any idea, how tight those big companies in Germany are connected through shareholders? And any idea, what the intentions of those bosses are? There is no way an airport like DTW would get service of the 380. Unless one bound to ORD is diverting, but we will probably not see any ORD-bound 380 that soon...

Quoting Iwok (reply 30):
I disagree that DCX has no clout at DTW. They are one of the major corporations in Michigan and it would not make sense for them to get the A380 into PTK, hence I assume that they will focus their efforts on DTW.


Wrongo...DCX is based in STR, a tiny airport, and all they care about is taking employees from STR to Detroit, whatever countryside airport that might be.
Now to Daimler Chrysler, which just by the way is not DCX...
Their interest lies in EADS shares rising, so Airbus just sells some more frames to EK and Schremppi is happy. But what sense does it make to push sales towards a country, and a region, where the 380 does have no chance? None. They go for the lucrative sales opportunities.

the Dan
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isitsafenow
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:51 pm

They own about 20 percent of Airbus Industries and the A320 uses Oakland County airport, about 10 miles from the North American HQ. I have seen it there a few dozen times.
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HlywdCatft
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:15 am

DTW CAN HANDLE THE A380!!!


Runway 3R/21L is 200 ft wide and 12,000 ft long. That is long enough and wide enough to handle an A380. LAX longest runway is 12,000 ft long too.

The runways are fine, so are the taxiways. DTW is up to Air Design group VI standards for its runway and taxiways around 3R/21L.

As for the gates, when the MAC was being designed the A380 was still the A3XX and of course the Boeing NLA existed then too. By the time the terminal opened, the A3XX became the A380. There is plenty of space between the international gates to accomodate the A380 and the International gates have dual boarding/unloading.

Its funny though how they didn't plan for the CRJ in concourse C and now have to rebuild that.

However,

Once inside DTW, I don't think immigration/customs can handle the A380 unless they really bump up their staff. I remember how hectic that place could get if a couple of 747s arrived at the same time, so I could only immagine two A380s coming in at the same time. Immigrations would only using 1/4 of their stations and customs could be very slow.


Transfers could be a disaster too. Once through customs, Northwest had the bright idea in 2002 of removing its CSRs from the transfer area and putting in some SCABS from one of the flight service companies like Huntleigh or something and they all appeared about 16 years old and couldn't lift the heavy bags that would transfer from Asia, so there would be a huge backup always at the bag transfer area...

Then the Thousands Standing Around in the transfer area were slow too. I remember the civilian security company could handle more traffic with 4 checkpoints than the TSA could with all 6.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:12 am

Before anyone crucifies me for an error.

Its runway 4R/22L that is 12,000 by 200 feet, not 3R/21L that i mistakenly said
 
iwok
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:40 am

quoting Nudelhirsch

Sure. And their President Schrempp is known for spendin unnecessary cash to open DTW for the 380...

I would assume that he would push the state and local governments to foot some of the bill.

I know this is not an auto forum, but just look at the money Schrempp spent on the "merger" with Chrysler and the buyout of Mitsubishi. Particularly in Mitubishi's case, the money was dumped down the drain. Since the merger frenzy Schrempp started, Diamler stock has tumbled and Mercedes Benz quality ratings have dropped dramatically in the JD power ratings. Clearly Schrempp is giving lip service to short term stock gains, and has his eye on long term empire building.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037

Now to Daimler Chrysler, which just by the way is not DCX...
DCX is the symbol for Diamler-Chrylser corporation used on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). This is the same Diamler-Chrysler which is a 30% owner of EADS.

Thanks for the clarification of where DCX employees fly into. I still think the point here, is that it is in DCX's interest to have as many airports as possible able to accept the A380. If they can use a little of their Michigan clout at DTW, and it does not cost DCX many euros, then it makes sense from DCX's point of view to get it done.

iwok
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:20 am

DCX has a heck of a lot more important things to worry about than whether DTW can handle an A380, that no one will be operating into there within the next 5 years.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:34 am

I think DTW will eventually get the A380 probably from an Arabic airline, but it will be many years down the road. There has been talk for years about Emirates coming to DTW, Lester Robinson CEO of the Wayne County Airport Commission and airport director has many times said he would like to get them into DTW and has met with people from Emirates.

In his interview in Airport World Magazine he said he is trying to attract airlines from the Middle East, Africa and more from Europe because Detroit has a large Middle Eastern, African American and Polish population.
 
ouboy79
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:48 am

Transfers could be a disaster too. Once through customs, Northwest had the bright idea in 2002 of removing its CSRs from the transfer area and putting in some SCABS from one of the flight service companies like Huntleigh or something and they all appeared about 16 years old and couldn't lift the heavy bags that would transfer from Asia, so there would be a huge backup always at the bag transfer area...

I'm sorry I didn't know NW CSR's were on strike during that time. Interesting. Love how everyone throws around the word "Scab" when it doesn't apply. Gotta love old style union mentality. Luckily the grip on the airline industry has proven to be weak as US Airways, and to an extent United, have successfully blown up and broke their unions.

As far as the 380 overwhelming immigration and customers...we are talking what? Maybe 100 more people on the plane? If that is really going to cause problems in these areas then there were too small to begin with. When the A380 is flying 800-1000 people...then we can talk about these services not being sufficient enough.

Most of this is really a mute point because NW is flying most of the international traffic...now if JAL and other airlines were flying at the frequency NW is to the far east or europe - then there would be something to worry about.
 
JAFA
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting HlywdCatft (reply 37):


Quoting HlywdCatft (reply 37):
I think DTW will eventually get the A380 probably from an Arabic airline, but it will be many years down the road. There has been talk for years about Emirates coming to DTW, Lester Robinson CEO of the Wayne County Airport Commission and airport director has many times said he would like to get them into DTW and has met with people from Emirates.

In his interview in Airport World Magazine he said he is trying to attract airlines from the Middle East, Africa and more from Europe because Detroit has a large Middle Eastern, African American and Polish population.


All airport directors say the say thing, and Lester Robinson is no exception. This is a bunch of hogwash. I guess all the "African Americans" in Detroit are going to support a daily non-stop A380 to a country in Africa. At which point they will still have to connect to one of the 38 countries. Give me a break. Secondly, most Arabs here came to escape political problems at home. They can't or don't wish to return to the Middle East. Right now the demand is satidfied with the occasional Royal Jordanian flight and the many other one stop connections possible.
 
grrtvc
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:43 am

HlywdCatft, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not one of those who nit picks but just want to make a clarification. The WorldGateway (I refuse to call it the McNamara Terminal) can accomodate the A380 but it will have to be parked at an angle so that the tail does not extend into the taxilanes or the wingtips extend into the adjacent gates.

The WorldGateway was designed with 25' wingtip clearance at the international gates using the 744 as the basis. If I recall the A380 is either 30' or 60' wider then the 744.

Anyway. Just wanted to clarify that.

GRRTVC
 
neilalp
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RE: A380 In Detroit

Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting Hjulicher (reply 27):
new terminal plans to incorporate both international and domestic flights, and thus I believe once finished, Royal Jordanian, BA, and LH, will be moving back, so that the McNamara terminal remains exclusively NW and skyteam


I don't think that is going to happen. Would it be worth it to have to staff two sets of Customs and Agriculture just for those flights? I think all internationals are staying at the Midfield Terminal except maybe an ATA Mexican Charter flight, but might they do Customs before they leave?

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