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Feroze
Topic Author
Posts: 698
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:57 pm

From: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1109154090.html


Lufthansa canceled dozens of flights at Frankfurt Airport, affecting thousands of passengers, amid heightened security because of US President George W. Bush's visit to Germany on Wednesday.

Bush landed at Frankfurt at about 0845 GMT on his way to talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on the second leg of a three-nation tour of Europe designed to patch up differences over the Iraq war.

"The problems are worse than feared," a Lufthansa spokesman said. Lufthansa and its partners, including its regional airlines, had already scrapped 71 flights, affecting 4,675 passengers, he said.

Regards

Feroze
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:05 pm

Cry me a river....

Seriously though, aren't there military airfields he could have used with fewer disruptions to a large hub like FRA. Would seem like a bad PR move on the part of the White House to inconveneience already annoyed Germans.

Are there alternates for a 747 near Frankfurt?
 
zonky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:08 pm

I hear Hahn is but a short trip away. He could have even used the Ryanair bus!
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:09 pm

Same happened at LHR when he came over at the end of 2003 - used rather than one of the big military bases (which one would hope were more secure!)
 
fraT
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:29 pm

The people of the city of Mainz, where the visit currently takes place are the ones who are really annoyed. They aren't even allowed to go on their balconies when the President drives by. They showed reports on TV that a lot of the businesses in downtown Mainz remain closed today because they are not reachable for the public. They are losing thousands of Euros because of that.
I understand that there has to be a heightened security for him but that is ridiculous.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23456
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:31 pm

JGPH1A, isn't it more like 2 747s, 2 757s and 3 or 4 C-17s?
 
nycflyer
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:23 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:36 pm

Isn't Rhein-Main right there? and Ramstein isn't much farther. good point as to why he didn't use an American air base right near by. He uses Andrews Air Base in Maryland as his home base, and then helicopters in. Why didn't he do the same, then could also take a copter into downtown Frankfurt.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:36 pm

When he came to LHR it was 2 747s and a 757 if I remember rightly.
 
OYRJA
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RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 3):
Why would they have to cancel so many flights - it's one 747 landing, for crying in a bucket ! If I was Fraport, I'd have told the Secret Service to go shove itself if they told me they need that kind of service disruption - let the Idiot go to Hahn !


Are you nuts???? Michael O'Leary would go nuts if any of his FR flights had to get cancelled!! Big grin
 
BA380
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 9:59 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:47 pm

hee hee. under the new EU laws, aren't the airlines then required to pay €250 or whatever to all the passengers they cancel?

invoice it to the White House and see what happens then...
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3209
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:51 pm

Why did he foul up FRA instead of using an American airbase? Because he is a MORON. Why the clueless reelected him I'll never understand.
 
mbird139
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:53 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting Dalmd88 (reply 11):
Why the clueless reelected him I'll never understand.


Boo-freakin-hoo..... Too bad, so sad...... Move to Canada...... Get over it.

Mike

[Edited 2005-02-23 16:04:25]
 
bennett123
Posts: 10886
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RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:01 am

Not a very good way to make friends.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:04 am

Why are you all blaming George Bush?

Its not like he just told the pilots to land at FRA at the last minute and surprised Lufthansa and Frankfurt airport.

Blame the German authorities who obviously authorized this plan in advance and failed to account for the logistical nightmare it created. Admittedly, our security details go overboard, but the Germans ARE paragons of efficiency and management, and its clear that this time they messed up.
 
User avatar
alberchico
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RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:23 am

Oh sure and I suppose that the leader of China or Russia drops by without getting that kind of security
 
KLMA330
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:26 am

His stupidity knows no limits! Although, I agree with Jaysit, the German authorities did authorize it
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Alberchico (reply 15):
Oh sure and I suppose that the leader of China or Russia drops by without getting that kind of security


Of course they do ! When the Chinese President turns up, its usually one Air China 744 - they don't shut the entire airport down for hours either side of his arrival. They had the Chinese President in Paris late last year, yes they close off some streets, but that was because of the Tibet protestors. The guy had security, sure, but he didn't require the whole of the metro to be shut down. Who does GWB think he is anyway - nobody died and made him special.
 
Skyguy
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:27 am

Well, what to do? There is only one 'leader of the free world'.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
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RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:28 am

Isn't FRA also an airbase? Isn't that why the airport was used?

mats.
 
milan320
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Skyguy (reply 18):
Well, what to do? There is only one 'leader of the free world'.


Could you enlighten me as to who that may be?  Insane

/Milan320
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6341
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:34 am

There is only one 'leader of the free world'.

Is that what you call him???  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:35 am

Hon, GWB may be the President of the United States, but he is NOT the leader of the free world, irrespective of what the Republican propaganda machine might churn out daily.

Still, quit blaming him personally for the FRA snafu.
 
alexinwa
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:08 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:50 am

So I'm guessing the snow WASN'T an issue at all?????? It was ALL becuase of Bush?

Find that Hard to believe.
 
aviaction
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:21 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting Jaysit (reply 14):


Whom else to blame? Traffic came to a complete standstill in the entire region. Not only motorways and railway lines were blocked but also the river Rhine. Roughly 1.000.000 people here felt the effect of this visit. These extra safety measures were demanded by the Bush administration. The German Government tried hard to make them accept less drastic measures, alas to no avail.

Now, can you imagine that 99 percent of these people wished that GWB had stayed at home?
 
aviationmaster
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:47 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:12 am

Heck, stop the whining! Like Doona already mentioned, the USAF have an air base at/near FRA (Rhein-Main Air Base), so that's probably why Bush and his entourage landed there. The base is due to close late this year anyway... Last but not least, as if it was BUSH himself who decided to land at Frankfurt International...
 
osteogenesis
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:44 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Ts-ior (reply 23):
... a pure disaster, wherever he goes and whatever he says !!!


I don't like him either. But the rest of the World should stop blaming him for all their problems. There are many corrupt and incompetent governments around the globe.

It is always easy to blame the other. I hope Europe never has to regret their lack of determination in regards to Iran, the same way the Bush government should regret the way they handled the Iraq conflict.
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:19 am

I have a customer being rerouted via VIE instead of FRA. LH staff at BRU airport explain to customers that it's because of Bush, they don't mention the snow at all..

Regards,
LO231
 
FrequentFlyKid
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:25 am

Could you imagine the uproar in the United States if people were told they were not allowed on their own balconies when the president drove by. I laugh just imagining that...
 
9V-SPF
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Aviaction (reply 25):
The German Government tried hard to make them accept less drastic measures, alas to no avail.


Those security measures were mostly necessary. Keep in mind that George W. Bush is the most powerful man in the world and thus has a lot of enemies.
Many people here forget that a US-President Kerry would have received the exact same treatment and use the inconvenience that Bush´s visit has caused as another opportunity to express their (current) dislike for anything american.

The question I´m still asking is why all this had to take place in the Rhein-Main-region which is one of the most traffic junctions and business centers in Germany while it could have caused much less trouble in a region that is less populated and less significant for the functionality of the german infrastructure(remember Clinton´s visits to Bonn which went by almost unnoticed among a large percentage of the local population).
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting FrequentFlyKid (reply 29):
Could you imagine the uproar in the United States if people were told they were not allowed on their own balconies when the president drove by. I laugh just imagining that...


FrequentFlyKid,

Thats what the hell they are doing. I don't even remember how many times I was removed by Secret Service Agents from the balcony of my office building because GWB was driving by.
Thats how it is.
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:55 am

It was well known since a few months that G.W. Bush lands at FRA today and it was also well known that it would affect the air traffic. Lufthansa and Fraport had enough time to find a solution but they failed. Now they should stop whining and blaming Bush for the delays when they are unable to deal with such a problem.

Patrick
 
SQno1
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:41 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:12 am

Well what flights have been scrapped by LH as a result of dubya's visit?

SQno1
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:16 am

We should scold the BBC and other news sources for not reporting the press had to fly on a NW DC-9 with buy on board meals and a half a can of soda!

Really, you'd think people never saw a head of state move about the world. This is what happens, and has happened for years, even before Bush. Half the state of California was shut down in the 80's so the Queen and Reagan could fly from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Why couldn't the Queen use Moffett Field? Because that's not the way it's done, just like Bush uses LHR and FRA at times.

Cheers.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5203
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:24 am

Boo hoo hoo. So the leader of the free world disrupted FRA. What do you think happens when W. comes to Chicago? ORD is shut down, for 15 minutes!

No on cancels flights. The schedule just runs about 15 minutes late all day, which is quite normal.

What irritated us is that Bill Clinton, rather that bring a helicopter to take to the Loop, used the limo, which meant shutting down the Kennedy Expressway.
 
stealthpilot
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:26 am

No country wants a national leader popped on their soil, let alone the president of the United States. A visiting dignitary that important to any country warrants extra security and protective measures. Im sure the German government wasn’t thinking really hard on the costs/benefits of closing down one town for a day, though I do admit if it were me I would be pissed.
Delaying a few flights I can imagine, but to cancel 70 seems like a lot. Anyway let’s hope Bush can patch things up with his European counterparts.
-Nikhil
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:31 am

Hi All,
Yet another American Bashing Thread..Will you people grow up? Boo hoo hoo..America seems to be the culprit for everything these days..Considering how hated Bush is on this part of the world, does any of this surprise you??? I take it none of you read the news, as someone was arrested for conspiring to kill the President...There is no such thing as too much security. (If you don't believe me, ask JFK how well it worked out..) And please, the German authorities approved of it beforehand.It's protocol..The way you all are whining, it's as if Bush personally ordered AF1 to fly in JUST to mess with all you people....

SV
 
uaord2000
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:26 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:55 am

George W did the same thing to Ohare last summer during peak hours. Ohare!!! The airport with some of the worst delays worldwide and he implemented a ground stop for 46 minutes while he landed. Amazing. He's a moron.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:00 am

Funny, but I've been at big airports like DTW when the President and his entourage arrived, and NW didn't have to cancel dozens of flights. I've also been at small airports like CAK and it was handled efficiently as well. When Clinton came to ATL, he'd usually use Dobbins AFB, and motorcade into downtown ATL, causing massive delays on 75. What you've experienced at FRA is nothing new, it just sounds like the hosts didn't plan well for it. Rhien-Main ant FRA are across the runways from each other. When AF1 landed, where did the President deplane? On the airport side or the airbase?

But after reading all the "love" from our european friends, I'm glad I decided to go to Hawaii this year instead of Europe. I'll spend my dollars at home. Maybe I should plan a trip to Disney this year as well. Sounds like there won't be many european tourists at the Magic Kingdom this year!
 
osteogenesis
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:44 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting Sv7887 (reply 38):
Yet another American Bashing Thread..Will you people grow up?


Yet another one who just doesn't understand that some people are just wondering why they did not do it differently.

There are so many places Airforce One could land in Germany.

I think it is a good question that needs to be answered mainly by the German government.

What would you think if your life is totally changed for one day because the German chancellor decided to visit your home town?
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:11 am

Just a thought, didn't Clinton once tie up an airport getting a haircut on a runway?
 
travelin man
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:11 am

I don't like Bush, and I voted for the other guy, but I'm quite amazed that some people here cannot see through their hatred of him. Sorry some people were inconvenienced. Sorry that this was not planned for better by the German government and airport authorities (and Lufthansa, apparently). The President flies by plane to many commercial US airports every year (including some of the busiest like LAX), and it does not result in dozens of flight cancellations.

Yeah, I don't like him as a President, but to blame him for EVERYTHING is absolutely ridiculous.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:13 am

The President of the US was in my area quite a few times over the past year. Yes there are motorcades that slow traffic down. We're quite used to it, and so are our authorities. We keep our leaders safe and go on. IMO, it sounds like your government wasn't to thrilled to have Mr. Bush there, and decided to make life miserable for him.
 
Thucydides
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:18 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:14 am

Amazing that it took 40 posts for TOLtommy to point out that Rhein-Main and FRA share the same runways. I thought that this forum was for aviation enthusiasts, and so it is a bit funny in my opinion that most of the first 39 posters let their hatred of Bush blind them to the simple fact that FRA shares infrastructure with Rhein-Main, which has long been a central airbase for US military operations.

As for whether security was overdone, let's not forget that Germany was the home to many of the Sept. 11 hijackers, that prior to Sept. 11, there were many active cells in Germany, and that despite the good work of the German authorities, Secret Service still has to consider this when evaluating threat levels and relevant security levels.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:15 am

It Bush's fault - again is it.

You Bush Basher really need to get a life.

Seems to me I remember Slick Willie screwing up LAX while he sat on AF1 getting his frickin' hair cut.

Don't suppose Kerry would have had the same treatment do you.

I don't suppose anyone told LH and FRA he was coming - I suppose AF1 just popped up on radar and decided, "Hey that looks like a nice big friendly airport, lets land there and fuck everything up".

Ya know - if you want to Bash Bush (and the US) pick something to bash about that makes sense.

Get over yourselves.

[Edited 2005-02-23 19:45:50]
 
osteogenesis
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:44 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Travelin man (reply 43):
The President flies by plane to many commercial US airports every year


Ever thought that this maybe a bad idea under certain circumstances?

Quoting TOLtommy (reply 44):
it sounds like your government wasn't to thrilled to have Mr. Bush there, and decided to make life miserable for him


 Nuts
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting Osteogenesis (reply 41):

What would you think if your life is totally changed for one day because the German chancellor decided to visit your home town?


I'm sure Stumptown would be more than happy to host a visit by Gerhard Schroeder, no matter what the inconveniences are for a day. The Port of Portland might even want to chat him up about how nice it is to have service here by Lufthansa, instead of at SEA.

Next question?
 
toltommy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:20 am

Thucydides -

Thanks! That'll get you added to my respected user list! Just goes to show how many armchair CEOs are out there. Apparently there's a whole lot of people willing to jump on the bandwagon to bash my president and my country. I sleep well at night, knowing that their grandparents remember my country in a more positive light.... I almost wish I hadn't just bought a new Jeep, knowing that some of the money goes back to Germany now....
 
travelin man
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Osteogenesis (reply 47):
Ever thought that this maybe a bad idea under certain circumstances?


Ever thought that MOST airports are able to deal with it without cancelling dozens of flights? And given that FRA is also part of a military complex, I fail to see how you can assign blame to the President for this situation.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

"A camel only sees the other camels' humps."
 
osteogenesis
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:44 pm

RE: Bush Visit Disrupts Traffic At FRA

Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Travelin man (reply 50):
Ever thought that MOST airports are able to deal with it without cancelling dozens of flights? And given that FRA is also part of a military complex, I fail to see how you can assign blame to the President for this situation.


Who is blaming GWB? Did you read all my posts? I said that the German government has explaining to do, and that people should stop blaming Bush for everything.

I guess you just like to argue.

I just find the decision weird. No mater who decided that he should land at FRA.

Stop seeing enemies where they don't are.

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