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Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Horizon Air

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting S12PPL (reply 13):
Thus, we see QX taking over most of the PDX/SEA to SFO, OAK, Southern Cali flights.


QX on some PDX to SFO/OAK/SMF/BUR/ONT frequencies, yes. No QX non-stop services from SEA to California yet, with the exceptions of SEA-FAT/SBA which have been opb QX "from the get go."
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:16 pm

Wonder if Horizon might move into the ANC area. The fixed wing division of ERA aviation is being sold if not already sold. ERA was courting a customer but won't mention who it is.

With ERA going away, a significant void will be left to the smaller communities where ERA currently flies, including Kodiak (ADQ) The new ERA owners might keep ERA or dismantle it.

Penn Air remains but I don't think they have the assets to pick up the ERA service.

Regards,
The Gent
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Horizon Air

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:11 pm

If they did move into ANC, I wonder where they would operate from. I don't think it would be the L gates since you have to go through security to fly Horizon, and C is full with AS. My guess would be B1, it would make for easy connections onto AS. Plus the airport already took down the jetway for B1.

All speculation at this point though. I'd love to have Horizon up here, but I'd rather Era survived.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:28 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (reply 51):
Wonder if Horizon might move into the ANC area. The fixed wing division of ERA aviation is being sold if not already sold. ERA was courting a customer but won't mention who it is.


Beat me to it, Gent.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (reply 51):
Penn Air remains but I don't think they have the assets to pick up the ERA service


I think they oculd get the financing, they're very strong on the books. I'm just not sure they want to headache. The ANC Station Manager is a friend of mine, and she indicates they are quite happy with their little part of the Alaskan World. I do think that would be a great move for them . . . but over-expansion has killed more than one carrier.

Quoting Chugach (reply 52):
I don't think it would be the L gates since you have to go through security to fly Horizon,


Sure they would - if their routes were the same as Era's, simply take over the routes, going and coming. What would be the difference. Era is an AS partner, and when a pax arrives on Era from "the bush" they claim luggage, re-check in and go. If Horizon wanted to do it differently there would have to be a huge financial investment in rural Alaskan airports for X-Ray machines, TSA (Gag, Gag, Gag), and other security measures simply not viable in the bush.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Chugach
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Horizon Air

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:25 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 53):
If Horizon wanted to do it differently there would have to be a huge financial investment in rural Alaskan airports for X-Ray machines, TSA (Gag, Gag, Gag), and other security measures simply not viable in the bush.


Actually, for what it's worth, I was in DLG a few weeks ago and they have a full TSA presence there. You don't have to go through security for PenAir, but all luggage outbound on PenAir to ANC and beyond is screened by the TSA there, so you don't have to claim and re-check it in Anchorage. I wonder if the TSA is there because AS flies in as well? I know TSA is in King Salmon, Kodiak, and I think Kenai, and probably others.
 
qxq400
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:42 am

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:08 am

We at QX pride ourselves on our service. At the end of the day that is what creates Customer loyalties. Here in RDM we see it everyday Big grin I would guess that half of the flights our full with our mvp/mvp gold members who fly a ton of miles every year.

Our culture requires us to go above and beyond what is normally expected of and airline. Indeed going above and beyond for our passengers is not the exception, but the rule.
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Chugach (reply 54):
I wonder if the TSA is there because AS flies in as well?


The TSA has a presence in the larger towns outside of ANC, all the way north to SCC. But they have none in the villages.

So, my point is, if Horizon decided to get into the game up here, and wanted to match Era's route structure, and provide checked thru baggage, etc, there would have to be a TSA presence everywhere.

Could you imagine wanting to station TSA widgets in say, Mekoryuk? Shugnak? Much easier, and far cheaper, to have everyone claim/recheck luggage and themselves in places like ADQ, BET, OME, OTZ, ANC, FAI . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N1120A
Posts: 26638
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (reply 50):
QX on some PDX to SFO/OAK/SMF/BUR/ONT frequencies, yes. No QX non-stop services from SEA to California yet, with the exceptions of SEA-FAT/SBA which have been opb QX "from the get go."


That would be because SEA has more than enough O&D to cover AS service. LGB has QX service until AS was able to start up their own service with the slots AA stole from B6 for them. FAT and SBA are much smaller markets than the 5 L.A. airports, SAN, SFO, OAK, SJC

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 56):
Could you imagine wanting to station TSA widgets in say, Mekoryuk? Shugnak? Much easier, and far cheaper, to have everyone claim/recheck luggage and themselves in places like ADQ, BET, OME, OTZ, ANC, FAI .


I was about to say why not just take the bags plane side, but thought better of it considering we are talking about Alaska. Still, it does not take very long to get the bags off of a Saab, so really it should not be a huge deal. Does AS have expiditers in the commuter areas? Also, if QX was flying their Dash-8-200s around Alaska, wouldn't they be able to go into TSA free airports?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting N1120A (reply 57):
I was about to say why not just take the bags plane side, but thought better of it considering we are talking about Alaska.


Pretty much that's what happens . . . places I mention above don't get Saab or Dash 8 service, they're handled by a Twin Otter, or smaller. That plane would fly whomever into a larger village, say Bethel. From there on to ANC or another village.

It's not unusual for Pen Air to pop in to town with a Cessna Caravan . . . that's as "commercial" as aviation gets in some places.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N1120A
Posts: 26638
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 58):
Pretty much that's what happens . . . places I mention above don't get Saab or Dash 8 service, they're handled by a Twin Otter, or smaller. That plane would fly whomever into a larger village, say Bethel. From there on to ANC or another village.

It's not unusual for Pen Air to pop in to town with a Cessna Caravan . . . that's as "commercial" as aviation gets in some places.


So basically, if QX were to start feeding AS out of ANC, they would only be able to do larger towns or get smaller equipment that would really probably be more of a headache than worth.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:56 am

Here is the current route map for Era in Alaska

http://www.flyera.com/routemap.shtml

Here is the current route map for PenAir in Alaska. Please scroll down from the major map to see all the small villages serviced by Cessna's, and even Grumman Gooses (Geese), etc.

http://www.penair.com/destinations.htm

Quoting N1120A (reply 59):
So basically, if QX were to start feeding AS out of ANC, they would only be able to do larger towns or get smaller equipment that would really probably be more of a headache than worth.


Essentially that would be correct. Look at the maps and notice places like Chevak, with a 3000 foot gravel runway - and there is no terminal building. The PenAir site might give you better insight into what is involved in serving the small Alaskan villages.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Chugach
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 56):
Could you imagine wanting to station TSA widgets in say, Mekoryuk? Shugnak? Much easier, and far cheaper, to have everyone claim/recheck luggage and themselves in places like ADQ, BET, OME, OTZ, ANC, FAI . . .


Sorry, I misunderstood you earlier. I definitely see what you mean about the smaller villages. Actually, even Unalakleet, which has daily Saab/metro service to Anchorage doesn't have TSA, at least not when I was there last summer.

I can't see QX wanting to fly to the small villages like Era does. Seems to me as though that flying would probably get gobbled up by the other local carriers.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting Chugach (reply 61):
I can't see QX wanting to fly to the small villages like Era does. Seems to me as though that flying would probably get gobbled up by the other local carriers.


Perfect time to split up Era - let QX have the routes to ADQ, DLG, VDZ, etc. Maybe even see an RJ up here. And let PenAir gobble up the rest. It's right up PenAir's alley anyway. Don't think they want that headache, but they'd do well there. . . .

The other possibility - Frontier Flying (not to be confused with Frontier Airlines). They already have a very extensive route map in Alaska - northern Alaska - but are virtually unknown in Western and South Central. They use all B1900s at the moment - but are reliable, less expensive, and don't have to deal with the TSA idiots either.

I don't think anyone coming to take over for Era when the fixed wing assets are sold will be able to be fuly integrated into the "Security" system. Simply doesn't make financial sense to do that here (in Alaska). Easier to simply recheck bags and pax at ANC or FAI and continue from there.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Chugach
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:06 am

If Frontier does take over the Era city routes, I really hope they get some bigger planes, i.e. take over Era's dash-8's. Now consider this: If 2F does wind up with these routes, does AS start a codeshare with them?

Personally, the only way I could see QX using the RJ's up here is if AAG decided they wanted Horizon to fly between ANC-FAI a few times a day to increase frequencies on the route. But as thin as they are stretched on the RJ's right now, I'd say there's a snowballs chance in Maui of that.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting Chugach (reply 63):
If Frontier does take over the Era city routes, I really hope they get some bigger planes, i.e. take over Era's dash-8's. Now consider this: If 2F does wind up with these routes, does AS start a codeshare with them?


I'm sure QX would take the Dash-s. Not so sure about the Otters.

There would almost certainly have to be another carrier willing to step in and assume the routes the Otters fly (ENA, HOM, etc). Perhaps Frontier, perhaps not. Frontier could probably absorb the Otters and take on a Dash-8 or three. What about Western Alaska's Era operation? PenAir gonna take that?

Almost certainly 2F would either codeshare with AS or at least be a mileage partner.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Chugach
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:31 am

Actually Era does fly the Dash-8 into Kenai and Homer, although I think Homer only sees one a day.

Looking through the AS timetable, Kenai only sees one otter a day right now. All other flights are on the Dash-8.

As for the western Alaska operation, I'd say that PenAir and Frontier are the two most obvious candidates.
 
LineMechQX
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: Horizon Air

Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting SprxUSA (reply 36):
I find it funny that QX says that they can't make any money there and were ready to dump it in April, however, they are one of the three airlines vying for the subsidy to go there. Apparently, they don't want to leave that bad.


To apply for a government subsidy, Horizon also had to submit intent to discontinue service. I guess its the feds way of ensuring they're serious and are the best airline for the job.
Late
PC

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