mrniji
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Again a proof that business and hospitality are distinct categories.. I prefer the Asians on this, providing great services 9and cheaper prices!!)

Quoting ClipperNo1 (reply 21):
Boy I hope they don't get a wrong idea from the US carriers....but I fear they will.


I completely agree.. the American Modell is no idol for hospitality.. no wonder that so many airlines in teh States face bancrupcy (overcompetition).

I hope UA will reconsider this decision.. hopefully, US airlines will offer a better product in the future and do well again.. I will never forget how great PA was.. even UA did a good job in the 90s in my eyes, NW too...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ANX4fishing
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:04 pm

Flew UA FRA-ORD the other week and was surprised when they wanted $5 for a beer. When I asked for two, I got a shrug and was told to wait for the cart to come around again.

Also, flew SAS, TXL-CPH and could not buy a soft drink or a cup of coffee without buying the whole meal bag for 4 euros. They apparently put the drink cups in the bottom of these bags. Would it kill them to keep a few extra paper cups on hand...?

ANX
 
mrniji
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:07 pm

ANX4fishing,

thanks for the laugh - great stories! Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
vasilek
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:18 pm

Quote:
...AA, UAL, NW, DL all charge you if you want a meal on a flight.

Last time I flew United EWR-LAX-HNL-ORD-EWR in Sep. 2004, free meal was offered on all 4 flights and the fare was $340. Nice!  Wink

[Edited 2005-03-04 07:25:54]
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:46 pm

"Any ideas if EI are a good transatlantic carrier, especially if they have US customes at DUB/SNN"

I flew DUB-ORD 8 days ago. Above Average service and good meal in Y. Although, yes folks the alcohol is not free. 4Euro for a bottle of red wine.
 
USrampleadSTL
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:04 pm

I spoke to a US F/A who works transatlantic flights when I was in Charlotte for training a few weeks back, and she said that onboard medical emergencies (including those that don't require diversions, which are nearly all of them) have dropped by 90% since we started charging for alcohol in Y class. If that's true, then this is a very, very good move.
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JGPH1A
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:37 pm

Quoting Stargoldlhr (reply 14):
Europeans will just no - go on US airlines once the word spreads, and europeans are not as easy to win over once they have a bad opinion.


I don't think there'll be an actual boycott, but it does present problems for codeshare partners. I flew AF CDG BOS and DL JFK NCE back a few months ago, the DL flight had a lot of AF codeshare pax on board, who were very miffed that DL wanted USD5.00 for a bottle of wine, which (naturally) is free on AF.

Quoting NWAFA (reply 27):
As long as KLM is not charging, don't look for us to charge any time soon.


And KL won't be charging because AF won't be charging, so that's that. I think it's great that NW and KL try to harmonize their on-board products, so that the codeshare truly is as seamless as possible. DL could learn a lesson or two.
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baw716
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:38 pm

Those of you who are choosing NOT to fly an airline because they have elected to charge for liquor...do you mean to tell me you are SO cheap that you will make a $2000 decision over $5? If you are business travelers, I certainly hope you don't make your business decisions with the same mentality.

The best thing that the US carriers have done is to start charging for food. Do you know why? Have you heard anyone complaining about airline food now that they are paying for it? Nope. Airlines are making agreements with quality vendors who are selling their products in such high quantities that the airlines, through their caterers, can afford to offer a packaged lunch or dinner, albeit cold, in a decent presentation for somewhere between $5-12. If the fare is more than $24.00 lower as a result on a round trip basis (assuming you eat both ways), than the meal that you pay for is actually free (based on cost savings).

Some of you really need to get a life... or at a minimum a reality check.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:53 pm

Maybe its a way of reducing the number of people who could get drunk on the flights, if it is then it is a very good idea
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RyanAFAMSP
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:05 pm

Uh, no it is not a reality check

For my trip to Paris in May (on the MSP-CDG market), Business class advance purchase tickets are running about $2300, and coach around $800. There are a few days that one could find a discounted coach ticket for about $600. I am chosing to fly Air France - rather than the cheapest airline in the market - just because I like a full service airline that doesn't charge for alcohol. So though I may be able to - depending on the day - find a CO or AA ticket for $150 or so less, I would rather go with the stlyle of AF. But that is all the more revenue for their operation.

The bottom line is that for a lot of people, service does matter. Charging for liquor in coach is an inconvenience. I would rather fly to paris via MXP on Alitalia than have a non-stop on AA where I am haggling over a few glasses of wine for an entire trip. Some people like it like the old days - reading, writing, and looking out the window, rather than fueling an obsession to get there without thinking about it.
 
chicoco
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:40 pm

ALITALIA 744.solution to the problem:take your JD bottle drink the contents, and refill when you get the urge ,if you have to pay for the use of toilet. Carry the JD bottle off the aircraft and dump it in the garbage bin.
 
mrniji
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:59 pm

Quoting BAW716 (reply 57):
Those of you who are choosing NOT to fly an airline because they have elected to charge for liquor...


The good thing is that often, non-American Airlines offering the full product are cheaper: so f.i. AI on JFK, ORD and LAX routes, PK to the US, and often European careers

Quoting BAW716 (reply 57):
The best thing that the US carriers have done is to start charging for food.


Sure, they had to, since the system of overcompetition drove them towards bancrupcy.. No philosophy on hospitality in some US airline Business, as opposed to many Asian and some European careers.. I know so many pax who would rather pay, let's say. $ 50 more and fly on of the latter careers, since Flying for them is more than just going from A to B

Quoting BAW716 (reply 57):
Some of you really need to get a life... or at a minimum a reality check.


You can go ahead with this  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:00 pm

Don't worry, I discovered that AA charges for booze in the business class lounges as well. Paying for alcohol is not just limited to those down back.

Not quite. In the US Admiral's Clubs you get two drink vouchers and have to pay for more. In the the Euro Admiral's Clubs you can drink as much as you like. Don't know about the first class lounges but my guess is that drinks are on the house.




Americans in general have a much more negative impression of alcohol... I got on an early flight from Europe to the US and when I asked for a vodka tonic after take off - this was on CO, by the way - the flight attendant had the nerve to say "wow, starting early today?". I gave her a look and said "sweetheart, I have been travelling for 18 hours, its 8pm on my time clock and I've paid over $5k for this ticket, keep your opinions to yourself and get my my drink please"


:D Well said!
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trex8
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:10 pm

In the 70s wasn't there some IATA rule against their members charging for drinks, so all the US, Euro carriers, who were nearly all in IATA couldn't give free drinks while the new Asian carriers, many of whom were not initially in IATA were giving out free drinks. They eventually changed the rule to even the playing field.
 
peppes1980
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:17 am

I liked to fly UA since they don't charge for the wine/beer. But I think this a bad way to save some money, and in the long run they will lose business over this stupid decision.

As long as US carriers are competing with the European carriers that offer a higher service level and still are giving away free alcohol, people will start pick a European carrier. I am going from ORF to OSL on Monday, I could have flown UA true LHR for $570, but the service level is way higher with SK, so I paid $730 and flying true ORD. And on the intercontinental routes you get free beer and wine (so far).

But I am willing to pay this exstra bucks to know that you get better service than what the US carriers can give to you. Many days the European carriers have the same prices as the US ones have.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:34 am

I'm Loyal to Star Alliance.

Not US airlines nor United.

If UA wants to become Ryanunited-air then let them.

I fly 100k a year.

From now on, LH, SK, BD get my transatlantic business, 'ell maybe even SQ...


Theyve been better for years, but now there's no reason to stay United at all.
The others are better... full stop.


When I go, 5 people come with me, we cannot expense alcohol. 5 people at 2 drinks in a flight thats.. $200 (inc Return flt) ! or FREE with a different carrier.

Doesnt affect me... I still earn miles, I still get from A to B and I still dont care the cost of the ticket nor the colour of the plane. But if the inflight cost is coming from my pocket.. well I'll fly with someone else.

Thats $50k last week alone UA just lost from me.
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bananaboy
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Peppes1980 (reply 64):
I could have flown UA true LHR for $570, but the service level is way higher with SK, so I paid $730....



 wideeyed  An extra $160 dollars so you could have free drinks? Wow.

Seriously.. other than free alcohol, what enhancements is the European carrier offering you for your money? From my experience, service on the American carriers has always been friendly and efficient, and on a par with the Euro airlines I have travelled with.


Mark
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NWAFA
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:38 am

Folks, everyone is going to have to face the fact, that ALL U.S. carriers charge domestically and almost all charge on International flights.

Its just a matter of time that United will charge on Pacific flights like they are on Atlantic..its a matter of time until NWA will charge on Atlantic (I just don't see it on Pacific).

Thats the future folks..like it or not thats what we are stuck with. So go ahead and start the European airlines are better because they get me drunk for free crap, but thats the way it is. We have two choices: Deal with or not.
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toltommy
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:53 am

"Those of you who are choosing NOT to fly an airline because they have elected to charge for liquor...do you mean to tell me you are SO cheap that you will make a $2000 decision over $5?"

Turn it around, BAW... Personally, as someone who spends a lot of time on airplanes, and pays a lot do so, I'm tired of getting nickled and dimed. International long-haul flying is some of the most profitable flying of any US carrier. The true cost to the airline of a mini is between .25 and .50 per unit. Let's assume for the sake of assumption that liquor usage on an international flight averages 1 unit per customer. Averages. So while some airline customers here may choose to fly other carriers over $5.00, how does it make any sense that an airline would choose to alienate their customers over 50 cents? I was a Platinum CO flyer at one point, until their nickle and diming of fees and making it hard to get upgrades and use my miles chased me away. NW gets the majority of my business now, but DL's recent moves (lowering walk fares and fees) have made me start considering them as well.
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peppes1980
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting BananaBoY (reply 66):
An extra $160 dollars SO you could have free drinks? Wow



There is several reasons I chose to pay extra to fly SK, other than UA for less money.

#1 It is the principle, I just think that should be free when you fly a long distance, and when you have a choice, I rather pay some extra and get it for free.

#2 Sk have financial problems, and I would like to fly them since the are the Scandinavian Airline.

3# Is always nice to be greeted welcome onboard in your own language (or one of the other Scandinavians language) Feel a bit home.

4# The UA flight was from IAD to LHR, and it was on one of the 747-400 without the IFE. On the nightflight to Europe I don't mind since I sleep, but on the return the IFE is a good thing to have SO the time fly by.

5# The shedule was better for me with SK, than the UA.

So here is some of the reason I am flying Sk than UA, but it's a shame that they charge for liquor. Maybe from the US point of view is OK, but I like to have my two red wine and Cognac on the flight. That would be $30 roundtrip.
If they had charged $1 for the wine the story would have been different, but usually you pay $700-800 for a coach fare, and I think is wrong that they are gone make more just because someone want a wine on the flight.
Then I pay more and fly Scandinavian.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:21 am

From my experience, service on the American carriers has always been friendly and efficient, and on a par with the Euro airlines I have travelled with.

My experience is that Euro airlines are generally a bit better. In any case most Asia take the prize when it comes to service.

I fly AA a lot across the pond. I have never had a bad experience, but it's very uneven. Sometimes they really shine and sometimes they're just indifferent. Show me those smiles people!

$5 more or less isn't the point. I agree with TOLtommy. What's with the nickel and diming! I am Platimum on AA and rapidly on my way to Exec. Platinum. What's a bottle of wine or two compared to one less gripe from a very frequent flyer? IMHO they should have free drinks in monkey class for Elites. That would really make pax loyal!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AA767400
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:55 am

We speak of how great Europeans airlines are, but how many of you know who's doing what?

EI, for example is a horrible airline with a fee for alcohol. I can't imagine taking them on a even longer LAX trip.

IB, While they don't charge, good luck on trying to pry a drink out of the old tired Flight Attendants how are just down right nasty!

OA, is a total mess! Try being stuck on that 340 all the way to ATH with really no service at all. Again, no charge but no service either.

So let's not talk about Eurograndness, when all you have to do is look right into your backyard for crappy airlines. Oh and let's face it, The Brits can really drink a lot!
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usagypsy
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:58 am

EI, IB, OA? Hardly the major or shining stars of european airlines - and they have limited routes structures. Although IB has an extensive south american network, OA and EI have only 3, perhaps 4 longhaul routes! BA, VS, SK, KL, LH, OS, AF, these are the European airlines we are talking about....

You have several frequent flyers here who are pissed off at the principle of the nickle and diming and although my heart goes out to the state of the US airline industry, they need us frequent flyers to be happy in order to survive... if I switch all my transatlantic and transpacific reveue to other Star ailrlines (where I'll still get the miles and status for domestic flights), UA looses between 50 and 75K a year and thats just fro me.

Quoting Starlionblue (reply 62):
In the US Admiral's Clubs you get two drink vouchers and have to pay for more.


This really gets under my skin... I am not sure when the Red Carpet Club started doing this at SFO in the international terminal but considering that the lounge serves all Star airlines, the should make it an open bar for international busines class passengers. I can't think of any other country in the Star Alliance network where you have a limit on free drinks in the international business class lounge.... PATHETIC (and I may not even want an alcoholic drink, its principle)
 
jfkaua
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:07 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (reply 11):


they charge you for everything. hell i'm not surprised you don't have to pay to use the bathroom yet.


Hmm yes.. but you shouldnt be charged until you go to open the door to get out... so you either give a dollar bill to the machine or the lavatory becomes your seat for the rest of the flight...
 
peppes1980
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:09 pm

Quoting Usagypsy (reply 72):
You have several frequent flyers here who are pissed off at the principle of the nickle and diming and although my heart goes out to the state of the US airline industry, they need us frequent flyers to be happy in order to survive... if I switch all my transatlantic and transpacific reveue to other Star ailrlines (where I'll still get the miles and status for domestic flights), UA looses between 50 and 75K a year and thats just fro me.


I can't agree more with you. The tourist traveler pay an awerage of $500 across the Atlantic, but it is the full price frequent travelelers that leave the real bucks. But , you know AA, CO are charging, why not UA. When all of the US carriers are charging (Ex NWA) people that have newer flown on a European carrier will get used to it, and stick to the US carriers. The others will fly European. Sad to say, but that is what I am guessing.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting NWAFA (reply 67):
Thats the future folks..like it or not thats what we are stuck with. So go ahead and start the European airlines are better because they get me drunk for free crap, but thats the way it is. We have two choices: Deal with or not.



You just dont get it do you. I had this same arguement over champange to economy class pax just last week on a United flight to Sydney. I go to the USA, because I have to. Its a VERY VERY long flight, not some 2 hr hop americans. I say that because most of you only travel within north america, yet still make these judgements like you actually are going to do the long haul sometime.

Now, we had 2 choices for non-stop. QF and United. Do you know why everybody i was travelling with chose UA? Simple. QF was full in all classes....even F. We paid $3400 for your fricken tickets. So, after spending $3400 bucks, one would think we are entitled to a few goodies.... and to whoever spoke about being stupid, let me tell you this. We're business ppl. We think its stupid to pay more and receive less.

But here is the real catch. What happens when Qantas introduce the A380? They (UA) will loose a lot of Australian traffic on those routes. And....something else Americans, that you are not considering. On international flights, it is us, THE NON-AMERICANS who dominate. We are most of the passengers and IT IS OUR CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS that dominate the consumers decisions. We dont think of alcohol as evil. We think only prudish ppl take that approach and it is really quite absurd, so take your morman bible or whatever else and keep it to yourself.

So when you guys stop viewing things through american eyes and start thinking, How can we better compete with Qantas, Virgin Atlantic, SIA and BA, you'll start winning all the customers.


The problem is a cultural one. Americans as a whole don't travel internationally in the same way British, Australians Germans and Scandinavians do. In fact, in 2003, 15% of Australians travelled on intercontinental flights. THEREFORE..... WE are the primary international customer... not Joe Average who lives in Kansas.
 
usagypsy
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:28 pm

Well put Lufthansa! And this is coming from an American
 
mrniji
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:09 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (reply 75):


Superb!

Quoting Lufthansa (reply 75):
IT IS OUR CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS that dominate the consumers decisions


I like this one.. it shows that capitalism does not have to destroy a culture, as it has happened in my counbtry of birth and citizenship, the US!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
kevindca
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:57 pm

Anyone who has worked for an airline knows that competition is king. If AA or CO or US saw their load factors or bookings or yields drop because of charging for liquor in coach, trust me, they would have changed course and ended it. They didn't. People are NOT booking away in coach because of this. Now, other US airlines are joining them. Get ready, Europe, because it'll happen there too.

If you want the classic luxury airline experience, buy an F or J ticket and enjoy the wine and cocktails on the house. If you're paying $200 for a round trip, drink a soda, suck it up and save your money for the $12 martinis in New York!
 
Lufthansa
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:17 pm

KevinDCA

fly to sydney and tell me that you paid $200 bucks?
Yet we're still put in this same arguement? More like $2000 bucks.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:38 pm

I have a theory that US Carriers are so full right now because the weak dollar makes them cheap for foreign customers. If the dollar strengthens, factors like the rather weak service and no alcohol will start having an effect.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:20 pm

Lufthansa

you have a great point, only 5% of the 300+ Million people in the US hold a passport! I have flown on over 120 international flights including Qantas from LAX-SYD and return.

I would always choose Qantas over UA anyway, becuase the service is much better. I am hoping that the A380 gets into service ASAP as I would like to fly back to SYD in F class on that plane for my 40th birthday (Thankfully that is several years away).

I would say that "Americans" (US) are becoming much more choosy in terms of quality of food and drink. For the first time last year beer consumption dropped and wine consumption has surpassed the French in terms of total sales (Granted they still drink more per capita). Also many "old school" groceries are going bankrupt as consumers move towards organic and speciality retailers, hopefully there is hope for us here in the US yet  Smile
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kevindca
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:48 pm

Lufthansa,

Nope, it isn't $200 to Australia. But I wasn't talking about US-Australia. I was talking about UA and other US airlines charging for liquor to Europe, not necessarily Australia. US-EU seemed to be the main concern of this thread.

My point was simply that airlines do what they feel they need to do within market conditions. When I started in this business, you'd get a hot meal on an hour flight within the US. Long gone. I don't like it any more than any other person, but the fact is, people won't book UA or CO or AA in the United States just to get a free meal. And people (even the "NON-AMERICANS who dominate", as you put it) won't book a flight from Europe to the US because they'll get a free glass of Merlot. Just look at how well CO is doing from the EU to the US. If the public decides it's that important, though, the airlines will consent, I'm sure.

It's economics, and that was my point. It's not morality, and it wasn't a slur against you or Australia. If you feel you're getting ripped off on US-AU travel, then you might want to switch travel agents...
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:54 pm

I just saw a Qantas TV commerical advertising 999 USD round trip from LAX to SYD and 2 additional flight in Australia.

That is a GREAT deal.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
NWAFA
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:04 pm

Lufthansa

I guess its time for YOU to start looking at it from the AMERICAN eyes, this is how AMERICA is doing business. This is how AMERICA views things. We are AMERICAN airlines (Not American Airlines out of DFW), thats how we view things.

You step onto a U.S. Carrier, thats how our culture is. I guess YOU need to look at OUR country instead of just your ol' little self!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:19 pm

This is why we get the reputation of being "Ugly Americans" this country is 300 Million out of a 6.3 BILLION in the world.

NW is a world airline, so what happens in the US is not totally relavent for selling tickets is it?

Try telling someone buying a ticket TO the US from NRT why they should be thinking like an "American" * is just a great way to lose even more money.


*(which is a bad term since "American" can mean anyone from North or South America which involves 22 countries)
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:26 am

NWAFA said:

Lufthansa

I guess its time for YOU to start looking at it from the AMERICAN eyes, this is how AMERICA is doing business. This is how AMERICA views things. We are AMERICAN airlines (Not American Airlines out of DFW / KDFW), USA - Texas">DFW), thats how we view things.

You step onto a U.S. Carrier, thats how our culture is. I guess YOU need to look at OUR country instead of just your ol' little self!



Maybe you should figure out that the Universe doesn't revolve around the USA. Lighten up mate...

I agree with 1MillionFlyer. NW, UA, AA, CO, DL and the others do not want to limit their sales to US customers. By attracting international customers they increase their customer base. So why not cater to international customers on their international routes? But if you don't want those customers, other carriers will happily step in and take their business mischievous

[Edited 2005-03-05 22:26:55]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
usagypsy
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:54 am

As noted in the thread, the cost of free booze to the airline - for those that even drink it on long hauls - is minimal, bad press and a negative public image has to cost a lot more to overcome...

Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
You step onto a U.S. Carrier, thats how our culture is. I guess YOU need to look at OUR country instead of just your ol' little self!


And, unfortunately, based on the responses on Anet..... most people are looking at us.. and don't like what they see.... we keep acting the way we do some big bad bully may hunt us down and kick "our ol' little self" in the not to distant future... really NWAFA - if you're a FA as you're name would indicate - and travel around the world most of the time, I can only imagine the negative impression you are giving about Americans and UA airlines... thanks
 
peppes1980
Posts: 22
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:05 am

NWAFA
Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 83):
Lufthansa

I guess its time for YOU to start looking at it from the AMERICAN eyes, this is how AMERICA is doing business. This is how AMERICA views things. We are AMERICAN airlines (Not American Airlines out of DFW), thats how we view things.

You step onto a U.S. Carrier, thats how our culture is. I guess YOU need to look at OUR country instead of just your ol' little self!


NWAFA: Do you fly International or Domestic. I really hope you only are flying Domestic.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:06 am

A little bit OT, but this Dilbert comic really captures, for me, the dichotomy in how the US perceives itself, and how foreigners tend to overreact to the US attitude:

http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20050304.html

The genius of this one is that Scott Adams has managed to capture the absurdity of both sides of the argument.


As Usagipsy says, the cost of the alcohol is minute, the workload for F/As to administer payment can be significant, and it's just one more little annoying thing experienced by pax who are already tired and stressed out.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6164
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
I guess its time for YOU to start looking at it from the AMERICAN eyes, this is how AMERICA is doing business. This is how AMERICA views things. We are AMERICAN airlines (Not American Airlines out of DFW), thats how we view things.


Is it really about "views", way of "doing business" and "culture"? Or is it about the sorry state of all legacy carriers in the US and the impact it has on quality of inflight service?

What about codeshares? Don't measures like this go against the concept of codeshare (and alliance) membership? If you're an airline freak or an experienced traveler you recognize a codeshared flight easily by the flight number. But what about the vast majority of traveling public who can't say Airbus from Boeing? Is it really fair towards them? You know, you book a ticket with LH, expect certain expectations of quality standards and then you end up on a UA-operated flight with now even more abbysmal difference in the inflight service.
 
Trolley Dolley
Posts: 548
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:44 am

I think Lufthansa, you went a bit over the top with the link between cultural domination and charging for booze. The US airlines haven't withdrawn booze, like some carriers from Muslim countries, they have chosen to make an economic decision to charge for it. Indeed, Royal Brunei, a no alcohol airline, says that this policy makes it family friendly. As I made reference before, I like my mile high drinkies- everything in moderation, though. But I feel like the previous post where there was the nickle and diming phrase. The airlines earn a lot of money from me in the course of the year, enough to warrant spending a few dollars on miniature booze bottles to keep me coming back. I personally feel that USD5 for a drink is excessive as I'm used to cheaper alcohol.

It's all about customer choice. If an airline doesn't meet your needs or expectations, don't fly them.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2624
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:25 pm

Hi NWAFA

Seriously, like I said, you don't get it.
Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
This is how AMERICA views things. We are AMERICAN airlines (Not American Airlines out of DFW), thats how we view things.


As said earlier, only about 5% of Americans hold passports. Now given that, if you want your company to grow, they need a bigger share of the international business. Given that, you want ppl like ME to use your company, and since WE are the paying customer, our opinions do count.
Otherwise the inherit premis in your arguement is this. US carriers are inferior to others and can never ever ever hope to match them, therefore don't even bother attempt to chase the higher end of Economy business and just focus on the cheapest seats to the cheapest tourists. That my friend, I refuse to accept.

There is no reason why a company, that just happens to be American owned, can't chase my business and compete effectively. Now I flew a US carrier BECAUSE I HAD NO CHOICE.

Don't you want me to come and spend $3400 when i do have a choice? Don't you want to be my preffered option? The money's there up for the grabs. Don't you want me to happily tell my staff.... book us on United, or Book us on NWA? If you guys up your act I certainly would be happy to do that.

Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!


Really? Cause you aren't doing much to prove it to me with this kind of attitude. You told me
Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
You step onto a U.S. Carrier, thats how our culture is. I guess YOU need to look at OUR country


Nope. Why? Because I am the paying customer.... and I drop thousands of dollars at a time, and I do have a choice 85% of the time.

Starlionblue

That was fricken brilliant! LMFAO!!!!! Well done.
 
NWAFA
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:27 pm

Usagypsy & Lufthansa,

First of all, I received the top honor from the company for both 2004 and 2003 for Customer Satisfaction and Compliments out of 12,000 Flight Attendants, so I do show how much I appreciate each and every passenger. So obviously after 20+ years with two carriers, I understand and show respect to every culture in the world. I will always treat my guest with respect, even the ones that are being a total pain the rear.

As much as you keep saying your the customer (and yes you are), and that we must bow to your culture, at the same time you do have to realize that you are on an American carrier, and we do things differently in the great country of the United States. We must treat you with respect. We must realize there is a different in cultures, thats where YOU as the paying customer must realize the same thing. I am not saying that a crew member should ever treat you mean or badly, however when you fly into other country's, every one must realize, things are done differently. Personally I do not get the coldness from many European carriers. To me that is being rude, but I under stand the culture is not to be over friendly or personal. I get it. Not my style, but understand that's how its done there.

I was on a UA flight a few weeks ago, going from DEN-SFO, and there was a group of passengers from Germany that were being a pain in the butt to the Flight Attendants, and one lady said to one of the Flight Attendant, "You American must treat me different than any other passengers because I'm from Europe, and we do and expect things differently". The Flight Attendant was great, she leaned over to this bi*&^% and said "Honey I love your country, and welcome to my country, may I get you a soda?".
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:15 pm

Best US carrier for me used to be TWA !!
Great people to fly with - they still had service ( and free drinks ) on Y class and don't even mention service in C-Class. From a business -point of view I think it is stupid not to offer at least free wine and beer on International flights from and to the USA.Non -US carriers will see better load factors. Similar on flights from say Europe to Saudi-Arabia ,where Saudia is "dry" and all their main-competitors are full -service airlines and serve drinks.If you have a choice and enjoy a decent meal with a glass of wine the decision is quickly made.
The issue is not 10 $ for two drinks but the issue is Ryanair-style greediness on a service-product !I fully understand those passengers who fly a detour to get free drinks .It's an issue of product and if you have the choice you choose the product that matches your likes.None of the people who argue in this forum are likely to behave like alcoholics on flights ( at least I would think..) but then I agree it's an issue of culture .Specially the consumption of wine with a meal is basically a must for many europeans - so to charge for wine with a meal is like charging for forks and knives.
I used to work many years for and with american companies and was always amazed ,that for a business lunch in the USA nobody would dare to drink a glass of wine with a meal but rather stick to soda or tap-water - what a ridiculous habit ! And then,after the work-hours ,those same people would drink huge and unreasonable quantities of hard-liquors in bars !!
It is -like always - a matter of balance and in this case the "culture" is completely out of balance!
I am a defender of free alcohol on flights and think it is a good and valuable service-advantage.300 Million americans should not impose their way of doing business to the rest of the globe .
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
peppes1980
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:01 am

RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:24 pm

Quoting NWAFA (reply 93):
"You American must treat me different than any other passengers because I'm from Europe, and we do and expect things differently".


Sorry I don't really believe that someone would have said that.


Quoting NWAFA (reply 93):
realize that you are on an American carrier, and we do things differently in the great country of the United States.


That are the problem, why do thinks different that the completion. Have a lower service level is not good, when there is several carriers that fight for the business travelers. The other be more than happy to welcome then onboard.

[Edited 2005-03-06 07:31:39]
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:28 pm

Quoting Trolley Dolley (reply 91):
Indeed, Royal Brunei, a no alcohol airline, says that this policy makes it family friendly.


Yeah, but are US airlines family friendly??  Wink

Quoting NWAFA (reply 84):
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!


This signature in connection with your statements are a good reason for me not to take NW.. you are not good publicity. If I were you I would go incognito  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2624
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:21 pm

NWAFA

You still dont get the point. You're busy defending the home team when you don't realise, its not about the home team, its about winning market share. AND YOU'RE FAILING. Evidence. The frequency of QF compared to UA on SYD-LAX, the frequency of BA compared to AA on JFK-lax, the prices Cathay and JAL charge compared to UA and NW on NRT to JFK.....shall I go on?

It isn't about weather you are american or not....that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is about servqual...... service quality, consumer behavior and customer expectations amongst other things. What you don't understand is we don't have to give a shit about weather you are an american carrier and this is the way you do things? Why? Because we, most of the time, don't have to give you our money....and the arrival of the A380 is going to make that even more so. Why is that so hard to see? We are the majority of customers, this is what we want, and we have the money in our hands........ and, to quote metallica, "And nothing else matters".... whether you are american or not has absolutely nothing to do with it. Weather you want to compete in our segment of the market does.

Quoting NWAFA (reply 93):
thats where YOU as the paying customer must realize the same thing

You see this is where you're just plan wrong. As long as we have a choice, and somebody is offering us a better deal, darling, we don't have to realise anything. So you just keep on dreaming about that money.... because Virgin Atlantic just actually earned it.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:42 pm

That is right Lufthansa! I am hopping on a SOUTHWEST 737G in about 2 hours to San Diego...whoops there is 400 dollars UA or NW didn't make .....oh well!
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Starlionblue
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RE: UA Charging For Alcohol On Long Haul

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:21 pm

I was on a UA flight a few weeks ago, going from DEN-SFO, and there was a group of passengers from Germany that were being a pain in the butt to the Flight Attendants, and one lady said to one of the Flight Attendant, "You American must treat me different than any other passengers because I'm from Europe, and we do and expect things differently". The Flight Attendant was great, she leaned over to this bi*&^% and said "Honey I love your country, and welcome to my country, may I get you a soda?".

Lol. Well I think the point of most Europeans in this thread is that Americans are far more well known for this attitude than Europeans...

Having said that, clueless morons can be found anywhere.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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