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ewr767
Topic Author
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:01 am

CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:44 am

Reserves, what are they. They are the people that put in the grunt work. Cover sick calls. Cover trips not assigned. etc. After being on reserve for 6 years, it finally looks like my time is coming to an end. Thank God. Ive done my time, and its time for someone else to put theres in just like all the people before me. Some longer than others. Will i miss it. H*** no. Will I care about others issues that will be going on reserve H*** no. It won't effect me until i go back on reserve then i will deal with it when that time comes. Regarding this t/a, people cant tell me that its not all about them. I hardly doubt that the senior mommas/pappas are gonna vote no because the reserves aren't being take care of. No, they are gonna vote no because the dont get paid for turns and there vaca, and the 65 hour thing. I would more likely than not vote no if my 5 dollar raise was effected (not saying i am or not just an example) along with some other things that effects me at my seniority level and what will happen in the future for ME. I guess all im saying is that everyone is gonna have a specific reason to vote how they vote. And thats how it effects them. To pretend they are voting either way to take care of others people needs is laughable. That is the only problem that i have with the t/a is that it does seperate us into that kinda thinking. Training pay, dont care 2 days out of the year. 65 hour thing dont care wont happen for 20 years. 1.85 per diem 15c less kinda sucks. NOW getting paid report time to block, instead of block to block LOVE, just to name a few examples. Just wish it could of been more fair. But LIFE isn't FAIR
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:41 am

The best reason for CO employees to vote no to concessions: you are essentially caving in to a threat (whether real or imaginary) that CO will file for bankruptcy if you don't vote yes, implying they will then be able to impose even more draconian concessions under cover of corrupt bankruptcy laws and court interpretations of same.

Once CO management sees how easily you can be cowed into concessions, they will be back for more -- with the same threat if you don't go along. Ultimately (after who knows how many rounds of concessions) your compensation will be reduced by the same amount (or more) as they could/would force you to give up through bankruptcy court action.

Since labor compensation rates are not among the issues that keep CO stuck in non-profit status, the malaise will continue, even with your yes vote to concessions, meaning that CO will continue to post red ink and management will be back for more concessions, having seen how easily you caved in to subsidizing through concessions their ineptitude the first time; so why would they expect you to do differently when they return with the same threats if you refuse to go along once again?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:49 am

That's right, T-B, just take the company into Ch. 11, take deeper paycuts, and then the threat isn't a threat, is it? You don't get it, do you? CO is trying to put together a business plan to make them viable not just now, but into the future, and, whether bury-your-head-in-the-sand people like you want to admit it, the only real fixed cost that the airlines have control of, is labor. And after CO has cut almost $2 billion from costs in the last 3 years, and there's still red ink, what you you suggest the company do?

The $500 billion will give CO a real chance to not just turn a profit, but to make sure they stay competitive into the future, meaning they can keep the fleet updated when they need to, and not let the fleet, nor it's route system, fall into decay because of having to lay off people.

Keep your head buried in the sand, though. Of course, if the unions play stupid, and don't agree to cuts, and CO, to get a good business plan, does go into Ch 11, I'm sure you'll be around to bitch about it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:47 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:10 am

CO's major int'l expansion doesn't come at a cheap price. It takes alot of dough to start up a new city! Personally, I think CO is counting their eggs before they hatch. How could you do such explosive growth at a time when you need concessions? We'll see how the cookie crumbles on Smith St., very soon!
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 1):
Once CO management sees how easily you can be cowed into concessions, they will be back for more -- with the same threat if you don't go along. Ultimately (after who knows how many rounds of concessions) your compensation will be reduced by the same amount (or more) as they could/would force you to give up through bankruptcy court action.

Since labor compensation rates are not among the issues that keep CO stuck in non-profit status, the malaise will continue, even with your yes vote to concessions, meaning that CO will continue to post red ink and management will be back for more concessions....

You're psychic. Bingo.
 
Junction
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:41 am

The thing that I've always wondered is why there automatically has to be this huge line in the sand between airline employees and management. For some reason it’s unlike any other industry in the world in regard to this. It is so cliché to see the bickering between the two groups. It’s almost like most airline employees have been drafted into working for their company much like the military. Doesn’t anybody truly like working in the airline industry anymore, and enjoy it through good times and bad because it's their passion to do so? If not why on earth would anybody work at such a profession?
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:19 am

Quoting Junction (Reply 5):
The thing that I've always wondered is why there automatically has to be this huge line in the sand between airline employees and management.

Mainly because it has become fashionable, especially of late, for management of the legacies to expect employees to subsidize management's refusal to make necessary adjustments to their convoluted high-cost product to bring costs in line with fares the market is willing to pay. Even long-gone Don Carty (former AA CEO) hit the proverbial nail on the head in regard to what really ails the legacies when he observed (paraphrase if not exact words): "we have given our customers what they want, but at a cost they are not willing to pay."

Until the legacies change (ie simplify, etc) their product to match what people are willing to pay (as WN has done from day one) there will be no turnaround -- regardless of any extent to which employees are fleeced, voluntarily or involuntarily. Even though most airline employees may not verbalize their sentiments in the same manner, most intuitively recognize that they are being treated as the scapegoats for management's obliviousness and/or cowardice toward dealing with the real issues that ail the legacies; what airline employee capable of rational thought would not take issue with such an attitude on management's part?
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: CO Concessions And Reserve For Co Emp.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:27 pm

Falcon84,
Time and time again, you've railed against the unions. For example, today, you wrote, "Of course, if the unions play stupid, and don't agree to cuts..."
Do you mean the union leadership (M.E.C.), any or all of the various local councils (L.E.C.s), or just individual employees (that are member of the unions)?
You may not be aware that the CAL ALPA leadership voted 9-0 in favor of the tentative agreement and has sent it to the membership for ratification. So it's wrong, at least in this case (ALPA), to continue to take issue with the union. It's now up to each individual employee to make their own decision.
Will it pass? I don't know; in my case, I'm still reading the proposal and I can't speak for the other pilots anyway. Will all four unionized labor groups agree to concessions? I don't know that either, but it's a huge challenge.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...

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