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flyibaby
Topic Author
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:00 am

TIMCO doesn't have the best name around anyway, but this week they have been fined thousands of dollars because about thirty of their "mechanics" were found to be here illegially working with false and stolen documents. Didn't TIMCO recently get the bid from Alaska for their heavy mx work in OAK? Wonder what will happen as a result?

What's worse is that we all go through serious background checks and even all the screening at security checkpoints to go to work or travel, and yet people like these are actually "perfoming" the mx?
 
wbmech
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:33 am

This is exactly why the airlines should keep mx in house. This happened inside our own borders with not only the FAA but other agencies overseeing labor laws and hiring practices. Can you imagine what goes on in other countries where there is minimal FAA oversight and no other US agencies to oversee hiring practices? Who is working on our aircraft overseas? Is the cost of a cheap ticket worth it?
 
flyibaby
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:41 am

Does anyone know who TIMCO handles in GSO? I'm assuming they do Heavy MX checks there.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:01 am

I know a lot of DL aircraft go there. Just goes to show you that safety is job 1.....after the bottom line.
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
raggi
Posts: 886
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:31 am

I see DL, UA and Fedex aircraft at timco in GSO.

raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:49 am

When it comes to aircraft maintenance, you can only pick two:

Low cost
On time
Quality
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:19 am

Couldn't agree more 242. Although the least common combination is quality and low cost. How's things in the hangar? I worked in 242 about 6 years ago and have been on the line since. What are the rumors resulting from Delta's latest financial warnings?

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10291
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:22 am

Uh...wait a minute. There are two different issues here. First, immigration status. If they don't have it, that's illegal, they're illegal, and they're not allowed to work. Second, work quality. Just because someone is from another country doesn't mean that they can't be an excellent worker or an excellent technician. I assume that what's really going on here is some kind of xenophobic, semi-racist rant. They workers weren't Hispanic by any chance, were they? Ooooooh. Bad. (sarcasm). I just have to wonder whether the initial comments and the snitty, simplistic replies would have been posted so quickly if these guys were a bunch of Swiss or German or Japanese immigrants.

If TIMCO has committed an immigration violation, then they should be fined. But to assume that these guys were any less able to do what they did than, say, the idiot American mechanic and idiot American supervisor who violated a number of FAA procedures and thereby rigged that USAirways Express plane so that it didn't have adequate pitch control, is, well, silly.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 7):
I assume that what's really going on here is some kind of xenophobic, semi-racist rant. They workers weren't Hispanic by any chance, were they? Ooooooh. Bad. (sarcasm). I just have to wonder whether the initial comments and the snitty, simplistic replies would have been posted so quickly if these guys were a bunch of Swiss or German or Japanese immigrants

Wjcandee

Your assumption is way off. Let's make it clear that no one (other than yourself) made any reference to the nationality of the illegal workers involved. The issue here boils down to you get what you pay for. You're an attorney so let me put it in terms you might understand. In general the more cases that you win the higher the fees that you command, right? Even starting out the more successful law students get the better positions a better firms and command a higher salary. Basically the better the lawyer the higher the pay.

Now there is a reason that the traditionally airline mechanics have been paid the highest. They are better mechanics. Those that haven't been able to make it to the airlines are for whatever reason judged not as competent and settle for lower paying jobs at MROs such as Raytheon in Huntington, WV which did the work on the plane you cited in your post. The airlines have always been able to pick the cream of the crop because they pay the most and therefore get the most applicants. Very few technicians don't apply to the airlines because who wants to work for $12-$20 per hour when they can get $25-$40. 18 of 20 graduates in my A&P class applied with legacy carriers and only two got hired by them. Many of the remaining 16 got hired on by MROs or FBOs. The 2 that got hired by a legacy were #1 and 3 in the class.

There are many AMTs at my airline that are foreign nationals that have gone through the same screening process that I have. They have demonstrated their ability to the satisfaction of their employer and are great mechanics. They have proven themselves and deserve to be where they are as much as anybody.

The issue here is that you get what pay for, not that there is some sinister racist undertone in aircraft mx. THAT, my friend, is, well, silly.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
flyibaby
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:59 pm

The question isn't nationality or race, the question is why are these people able to work and get by in what is supposed to be a secure airport with false documents. The problem here is the fact that this is a breech of homeland security. Who is to say that one of these people actually went to A&P school. What if one of these people have it in for an aircraft full of people. The question of race or nationality, its of security.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10291
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:21 pm

DL: I appreciate your explanation. As someone who flies your carrier all the time -- assuming your name indicates who it is -- I can tell you that the deadheading pilots who occasionally chat with me always have nothing but raves about the quality of your work.
 
L-188
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RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting Wbmech (Reply 1):
This is exactly why the airlines should keep mx in house

Actually for a lot of jobs outsourcing it to a specialized company is the way to go, especially if you are a carrier with a small amount of aircraft of a particular type.

Giving a job to a shop that specializes in a repair that may occur only a few times in an aircraft life will mean you have mechanics working on it that do the job constantly.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:07 pm

Wjcandee

I do work for Delta and thanks for the kind words. It's always nice to know that the pilots and you the customer appreciate what we do.

L-188

I agree with what you are saying in regard to some components or jobs. However the trend among large carriers is to send heavy mx, which is occurring constantly, out of house. Your rational doesn't apply in that case. This is where most of the critical mx is done and where most of the jobs are being lost.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
gsoflyer
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:49 am

Ok, first, a fake SS card is not hard to get and if you have one then the employer is no wiser unless the government contacts the employer about the false documents. Who is am employer to question the validity of documents?

Second, just because you don't have documents doesn't mean your work isn;t quality.

As for who Timco handles:
Recently i've been seeing United, Delta, FedEx, UPS, Airborne Express and Alitalia in a lot.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Gsoflyer (Reply 12):
Ok, first, a fake SS card is not hard to get and if you have one then the employer is no wiser unless the government contacts the employer about the false documents. Who is am employer to question the validity of documents?

An employer shouldn't question the validity of the SS card. But they should require 10 years of work/education history as Delta did when I hired on with them. I put on my application/resume that I had attended college for a year and a half and flunked out 6 years earlier prior to working for Delta
Due to a tuition dispute the college put a freeze on my transcripts. Delta was going to fire me but I settled the dispute and the university released my transcripts to Delta. So, if an employer of someone who is fixing airplanes either doesn't require a 10 year work/education history or doesn't verify the info with a background check they in my post 9-11 mind are grossly negligent. And what for? To save a little money by not doing the check. Makes me want to fly on the airplanes they fix!  sarcastic  sarcastic 

Quoting Gsoflyer (Reply 12):
Second, just because you don't have documents doesn't mean your work isn;t quality.

Nobody ever said it didn't. But then again that's not the point. The position of AMT brings with it a lot of responsibility. In MOST cases the AMT is the final judge of the quality of his own work. Inspectors and/or supervisors don't sign off on a majority of the work done on airplanes. If someone is willing to subvert the federally mandated requirements for attaining the position of AMT how can you reasonably expect that they won't do the same in the performance of the tasks assigned to them as an AMT? Your profile says you're a software engineer. Would you want to trust someone that is a brilliant programmer, but is here illegally, with a project that you've spent years on? Could you trust that this person would have the moral conviction to not sabotage your work, knowing that he is actively breaking the law? What's to say that a competitor didn't plant him in your organization to do just that? After all you didn't do a background check on him other than looking at his SS card and seeing his obvious programming abilities, a la TIMCO.

The requirements to be an AMT are put there to protect the system and those that rely on it, passengers and employees both. Subverting those requirements is both unnecessary and dangerous.

Some further news on this matter:
This thread is about the fact that 5 of the illegals rounded up actually had A&P licenses which they had to have gotten under false pretenses as you must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien to get an FAA A&P license for use inside the U.S. per FAR 65.3. Could the FAA have some culpability in this?

A direct link to news report is here.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
User avatar
N747PA
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:11 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:02 pm

Hey 242 and dl757md.....

Check LRT242 in DL Term. It's the 737 HMV back from Avtech at MIA. Interesting.......
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:36 pm

I LOVE IT! Thanks for pointing that out N747PA. Numerous problems out of HMV and it only took them 36 days! When I worked 737 HMV in Bay 4 it was an average of about 3 weeks and we hardly ever had any problems. Yeah you get what you pay for. We had to replace a #6 slat on a 737-300 and they robbed it off of 242. Well instead of spending about 5 minutes removing a couple of panels and clamps they diked the wiring harness on the aircraft that goes to the slat position sensor. I'd like to see where that is in the AMM under removal. Of course they probably charged Delta for fixing it. When are they(DL management) ever going to learn. How many times did they say they learned their lesson about outsourcing and stretching out mtc intervals during 7.5? Well folks it's time to reinvent the wheel again. Oh, but we're going to make sure that the contractors do their job this time. There's going to be controls put in place to prevent the problems with contract mtc. HAH! Controls my ass. Looks like they controlled this one really well.

So here we are on the eve of the latest big announcement of cutbacks by management. We're going to lose the Tampa hangar and who knows how many line stations. Ok boys we're taking the work you do so well away and laying off many of you. The rest of you will have to pick up the slack but you won't have much work from the contract planes we've go that covered. But don't worry good comes around.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:41 pm

Yep, Ship 242 (no relation to my user ID) came fresh out of Miami with both engines mis-rigged, auto brake problems and god knows what else. The flight crew had written up six items and the line guys working it added about twenty more. As far as I know, It's still at the north hangar being fixed from getting 'fixed'.

But, as Taliban Tony says: Quality will not be compromised.  Yeah sure
 
as739x
Posts: 5246
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Timco MX Base In GSO In BIG Trouble

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:40 am

Flyibaby: I think you are confused. TIMCO was trying to get the old Alaska hanger in OAK. Alaska doesn't farm out any maintance to TIMCO! Our is done by BFGoodwrench mainly. We no longer have any mx done in OAK other then by AS line mechanics there.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"

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