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masseybrown
Topic Author
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CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:34 am

There was a brief mention on another site of a recent 777 tail strike (Hull 008). Any details? or was this whole report incorrect?
 
ContinentalCLE
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:21 am

Its true it will be out of service for a minimum of 1 month technicians from Boeing are going to fix it.
 
CO2BGR
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:39 am

It was flt#99 EWR-HKG on Mar 9
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
 
ltbewr
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:49 am

How has this affected CO's services on that or other routes that use 777's? Any idea how much it will cost CO for the repair? Is the repair being done by Boeing to make sure it is done properly/liability reasons?
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:51 am

we're going to be hurting then for our 777s. Especially since we have been sending one to KWI the last couple weeks for the military.
 
redflyer
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:06 pm

What happened or will happen to the pilot or PIC of an aircraft that experiences a tail-strike? Career ending move or just refresher training?
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
iahcsr
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:33 pm

As it was told to me, EWR was experiencing some heavy winds that day. A rather heavy gust (wind shear??) occurred at just the wrong time causing the over rotation. To the best of my knowledge, the pilot(s) involved are, and will remain, CO employees. cloudnine 
Aircraft is Ship 008 N78008. Damage includes, but is not limited to, the rear pressure bulkhead.  crackup 
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
777ER
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:52 pm

Are there any pics in the database of the aircraft after
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wbmech
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:14 pm

IAHcsr,

From what I heard from very reliable sources is that the captain was told it would be in his best interest to retire immediately. He was due to retire in a few months. His version of the accident(the NTSB is calling this an accident) was different from the other crew members, a video tape of the takeoff, as well as the data recorders. The aft pressure bulkhead is severely damaged and a new one is being made in Japan as we speak. The whole tail will have to be removed for replacement. The tail area will also have to be reskinned, it was dragged for a while and worn down to the stringers. The cost was estimated to be approximately 4.6 million in repairs alone. There are no more military charters to kwi or anywhere else due to the lack of available aircraft thus millions in revenue being lost. The repair is being done by Boeing probably because they have deeper experience, tooling and knowledge for this type of repair, thus being able to finish it in less time. There may be a liability issue but I'm not sure. The completion date should be around the end of March. By the looks of the damage it appears to more pilot error than wind induced damage the Ntsb report should clear this up though.
 
musapapaya
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:29 pm

I also wanna see some pics on this.
If it can be repaired in a month, then it is not too severe, i suppose?
 
ltbewr
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:34 pm

Where is this a/c currently? Still at EWR? In a Maintaince hanger or outside? Bet would be great pics of this tail replacement. I just hope that since apparently the pressurized bulkhead was damaged, that it is properly repaired - Remember the JAL 747 back in the 1980 that crashed due to an improperly repaired bulkhead? Once this a/c is returned to service, will there be special maintaince procedures or time points to require more freqeuent inspections, heavy checks?
 
ha763
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
- Remember the JAL 747 back in the 1980 that crashed due to an improperly repaired bulkhead?

It looks like that the rear bulkhead will be replaced with a new one, not repaired like the one involved with JL123, negating the possibility that a bulkhead failure could happen due to a repair. See the reply from Wbmech about the repairs that will be needed:

Quoting Wbmech (Reply 8):
The aft pressure bulkhead is severely damaged and a new one is being made in Japan as we speak. The whole tail will have to be removed for replacement. The tail area will also have to be reskinned, it was dragged for a while and worn down to the stringers. The cost was estimated to be approximately 4.6 million in repairs alone
 
A340Spotter
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:54 pm

Couple of things need to be clarified...

CO2BGR, the correct date was March 3rd.

Undehoulli, it was going to HKG, but you are right, the FAA.gov site does list the flight's destination incorrectly as NRT. Flame avoidance...

LTBEWR, the plane is still at EWR and will be repaired there, or at least that's the latest I've heard. It won't be the first time Boeing has dispatched a team to EWR. Alitalia had a 767-300 years ago land on it's nose gear first and that needed some major repairs which, like our 777 apparently will, required the tail to be removed during the work.


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Jeffrey
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iahcsr
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:22 pm

Quoting Wbmech (Reply 8):
From what I heard from very reliable sources is that the captain was told it would be in his best interest to retire immediately

So much for MY sources  footinmouth . I'm also surprised it took this long for this event to appear here ... I hadn't even heard about it until yesterday. gasp 
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Gecko
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:05 pm

I was just looking at some photos of MH aircraft, Im not sure how to put the link on here but if you search for Malaysian 777 under most popular you will find (what I believe) to be a tailstrike in ZRH.

It appears as though the CO may not have been the first, but maybe caused a fair bit of extra damage maybe?
 
musapapaya
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:18 pm

arent 777s equipped with the anti-tailstrike thing?
how it works?
what other a/c has it?
 
bongo
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:51 am

Did they continue the flight to HKG or did they have to dump fuel and land again in EWR?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
jumbojet
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:06 am

I believe that this is the picture of the Malaysia 777 tail strike that Gecko was referring to:


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steve
 
OPNLguy
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 17):
Did they continue the flight to HKG or did they have to dump fuel and land again in EWR?

Returned to EWR. If you have a tailstrike, you don't continue because any aft pressure bulkhead damage could possibly manifest itself later in a decompression.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
wbmech
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:33 am

From what I understand tailstrikes are very difficult in a 777. I have heard that during certification the test pilots had a difficult time trying to induce a tail strike. The aircraft, going to HKG, the ntsb report is incorrect, turned around and dumped fuel. The flight took off for HKG with a swapped aircraft about 8:30 pm, about 5 hours late. If the tried to continue the plane could have had a major decompression, as there is cracks and wrinkles in the apb. As a matter of fact the pilot was afraid to turn on his APU for fear that he severed a fuel supply line. The 777 has tail strike indication system. It consists of what looks like a short stubby blade type antenna. Almost like a VOR antenna with loops of wires inside. When these loops get damaged through a tailstrike it loses continuity and show up as status messages in the EICAS page and/or MX messages in the MAT depending in the number of loops damaged. This sensor was sheared in half almost down to the skin.
 
gokmengs
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:37 am

Not to take away anything from the pilot's experience, but it had take a lot of error on his part to do a tail strike.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
ewr757
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:38 am

Wbmech:

Someone told me the FedEx DC10 (the one with the aft fuselage covered by the tarp) over on the cargo ramp had a tail strike the same day. Any info? I know it is apples and oranges.. I was just curious.

Thanks.

BTW, I think our MX is the finest in the business. You had mentioned on another thread about our pilots flying approaches to minimums in CO maintained aircraft. I never hesitate to accept an airplane or a sign off from one of you guys. Keep up the good work.
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 16):
arent 777s equipped with the anti-tailstrike thing?
how it works?
what other a/c has it?

The 777-300 has a computer-based system which overrides elevator control if a tailstrike is imminent. In addition, the main gear are locked on takeoff, so the rear tires in the assembly provide some additional clearance during rotation.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:01 am

What does it feel like to be in a tail strike? Are there sparks? I'm pretty curious as to what was going on in the cock-pit. I would love to hear a sound clip.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
wbmech
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:16 am

EWR757,

That's the first I've heard about FEDEX. I don't get down that end of the airport that often since most our remote parking during the day has been move closer to the terminal. I can try to find out though it might not be until next week. Thanks for the compliment, we do try to be the best.
 
Argonaut
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:47 am

I was passing through EWR on Monday and noticed the FedEx DC-10 (MD-10?) too. Too far away for me to see the tail number. The whole of the rear section, apart from the engine and fin, is under tarps, with some activity going on underneath. My immediate thought was that it must have suffered a tail-strike, but, of course, it could be some other kind of repair/maintenance. I, too, would be interested to hear more about this (as long as it doesn't take us too far O/T).

Argonaut
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting MakeMinesLAX (Reply 23):
The 777-300 has a computer-based system which overrides elevator control if a tailstrike is imminent. In addition, the main gear are locked on takeoff, so the rear tires in the assembly provide some additional clearance during rotation

The Tail Strike Protection system and the Semi-levered Gear are on the -300ER, not the -300.

The -200LR will also feature TSP.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
FlyHoss
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:45 am

Argonaut,
The Fedex DC-10 was reported to be damage from a snow plow in an earlier thread: FedEx DC-10 @ EWR (by EADC8 Mar 12 2005 in Civil Aviation)
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
huawey
Posts: 54
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:34 pm

SIA's tail strike in Auckland, New Zealand back in 2003. This is a B747-412

 
eadc8
Posts: 112
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 28):
Argonaut,
The Fedex DC-10 was reported to be damage from a snow plow in an earlier thread

FlyHoss,
Thanks for the acknowledgement. The snowplow theory didn't sound right, considering the plane has been in the same spot for TWO weeks now. It does appear that whatever work they are doing on FedEx is a major operation.

Quoting EWR757 (Reply 22):
Someone told me the FedEx DC10 (the one with the aft fuselage covered by the tarp) over on the cargo ramp had a tail strike the same day. Any info? I know it is apples and oranges.. I was just curious.

EWR757
Thanks for clearing that up. If the CO strike did occur on the same day, then IMO the wind must have been a factor in both incidents

Thanks again to both of you,

EADC8
721 722 731 732 733 73G 738 741 742 744 752 753 762 764 DC8 DC9 MD80 DC10 L1011 A300 A319 A320 A332
 
boeingforever
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:53 am

pilot error..pilot error..pilot errorr....always is
 
eadc8
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting BoeingForEver (Reply 31):
pilot error..pilot error..pilot errorr....always is

You're probably right, but don't you think that it would be an awfully strange coincidence that two heavy jets both suffered tail strikes on the same day, at the same airport, in the same wind conditions, with what were probably two seasoned pilots at the controls? All I'm saying is that the wind was a factor, not the cause.
This is just speculative of course, because no one has confirmed for sure that both incidents occurred on the same day, or if in fact the FedEx damage was indeed a tail strike.
721 722 731 732 733 73G 738 741 742 744 752 753 762 764 DC8 DC9 MD80 DC10 L1011 A300 A319 A320 A332
 
atamdji
Posts: 15
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:57 am

a Dc-10 tailstrike?

Geometry tells me that is impossible Smile

am I wrong? Looking at DC-10s the main gaer is so far back I figure the plane is likely to stall before the tail touches down.....

not trying to make fun, just wondering

A
 
wietse
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:04 am

Atamdji, I have pictures of a NWA DC10 taking off in a severe headwind (I had trouble standing upright) and it almost struck the tail.
Wietse de Graaf
 
bigmo747
Posts: 303
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:08 pm

Here's a pretty close call on a Saudia 777.....


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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



yaeh that's about as close as it can get without hitting.... Wow!
 
ua777222
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:30 pm

Talk about a pilot killer! This a/c, though it might have been pilot-error, took the job of one pilot and was involved in an emergency a few years back if I don't mistake myself. I think the pilot passed out at the controls. Well now I have clicked back into this window with proof! The a/c, only a little over a year old, was flying IAD-EWR-CDG when the pilot passed out at the controls allowing for the other pilot to take over and return to EWR.

DATE: 27.12.2000 LOCAL TIME: -
LOCATION: New York-Newark Int%B4l AP / NJ / USA
AIRLINE: Continental Airlines
TYPE: Boeing 777-224(ER) REGISTRATION: N78008 C/N: 29489 Age: 1 year + 9 months
OPERATION: ISP FLIGHT: Houston-IAH -> Paris-CDG (CO 10)
OCCUPANTS: 191 pax + 17 crew FATALITIES: 0 INJURIES: 1 crew DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT: minor
The aircraft made a safe emergency landing at EWR after the commander of the flight passed out at the controls.
SOURCE: Tampa Bay Online + NTSB


Thanks,

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
meister808
Posts: 924
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:54 pm

If the FedEx damage was tailstrike-related, and happened at close to the same time, I think we have to start backing off of the pilots a little bit, because it looks as if it was more weather related than the pilot being irresponsible. I don't care if you weigh 2,000 or 600,000 lbs, if you are loaded heavily, especially with an aft CG, a gust of wind can mess you up.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:35 pm

Over rotation on take-off resulting in tail strike, Aukland New Zealeand


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N754PR
Posts: 2909
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:40 pm

jumbojet, Its Auckland and the pic is already posted.... its the HUGE one above.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
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RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:01 pm

That is an unfortunate way to have a career end. I agree with Meister808.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: CO 777 Tail Strike?

Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:54 am

N754, no shit. its a different view and angle of the pic. Thanks though for sharing with us your ability to detect the same picture and let me know its the same one, yet BIGGER

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