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Braybuddy
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:59 am

Two questions about the pics:
1: Why is that rectangle at the base of the fin (at the 0 in 380) only partially filled in? Is it to house the black box? Up to the time it was painted it was completely see-through, then it was covered-in and now it's open on one side.
2: Does the nose-wheel retract forwards? There are two sets of doors at the front which would suggest this.
 
norcal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:17 am

Definitely is a stubby airplane, but still looks very good. Maybe the stretched version, if they ever make one, will look better. Although, a stretched version of the 38 seems overly excessive to me. I haven't done any research on the market need for a stretched 38, so I'll admit I don't know anything. Can anyone enlighten me? Being an aviation fan though I would love to see something as big as a stretched 38 built. Does anybody know how many 38s airbus has sold? Last I heard, the count was at 154. Also, what is the current news on the 747 advanced. I hope Boeing won't stop production of the 747, it is such a remarkable aircraft.
 
nsfguy
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:32 am

NO WAY! Airbus has a history of funky and sometimes fatal tail mishaps... And this is only held in by four bolts, and its a new form of composites that have many questions yet to be proven. Any problems in a turbulence control situation and its all over for this flying lard can. Remember the JAL 747? the airbus in NYC?
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:44 am

In a family of hot siblings, the A380 seems to scream adoption! Reminds me of the movie Shallow Hal. Only he could see her beauty, everyone else saw a whale.

Now the A330 is a gorgeous aircraft, and although I tend to be a boeing fan, the A330 has got to be one of the most sexy airplanes around! Her older sister, the A340-600 is a close second.

Another gripe... Why didn't airbus come up with a good livery??? Look at what Boeing mustered for the 777-200LR. What a paint job! And then we've got Airbus finishing one of the most ground breaking aircraft that will grace the sky, and it's about 10 minutes in the paint shop away from Air France livery.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter

Oh, and whoever said the A380's nose looks like the 777s, have a good look at this picture... They're not even close.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
ZRH
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:48 am

Apparently I am the only one who finds the nose not too bad. It looks kind of cute.  cool 
 
SK A340
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 54):
Another gripe... Why didn't airbus come up with a good livery???

Why spending money on something that won't give any in return?

/Micke
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:17 am

Two things to say about it:

#1 it's very impressive. I can't wait to see it fly. I look at it and logically I know that it can fly but it almost seems like they'll never get it off the ground. I'm sure people felt the same way about the 747 years ago before it first flew. It's just amazing that something this big and bulky will actually be flying the skies regularly. But i can say that I would not want to be on the first few flights...Airbus knows what they are doing but with something this huge I'd rather wait to board it until it's really proven for a few years in commercial service.


#2 It's ugly!! Sorry just couldn't resist. Big grin But honestly, it's not the most attractive airplane by any means. Impressive, huge, awe-inspiring....yes, all those things, but ugly just the same. The nose may have been the best aerodynamic choice in airbus' eyes, but the plane simply looks like it was beaten with the ugly stick as a child. One thing to say for the 747 is that it's big but it also has clean lines and manages to look graceful and beautiful despite its size. But the A380 just seems to let its weight hang out all over the place. Even its wings dont do it justice, and the wings are usually the saving grace of an otherwise fugly airplane!  Wink


I'll be impressed to see it in our skies. But that nose could give me nightmares. I pray that the 747A looks like the 744 but with a longer upper deck. What a beaty that'd be compared to our Helga A380 up there.  Wink
 
norcal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:27 am

The 747A is just the 744 with two plugs, so it will have a longer lobe. Hope they do decide to make it. If it is able to live up to the reported design specs, then it will cut into the 38 sales. Nothing like a little competition to keep things interesting
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:40 am

This is one of the ugliest airliners that I've ever seen. It surely is an engineering achievement, but combining aesthetics with performance is an art as well.

It's not that Airbus doesn't make good looking airplanes--the A340-500 and A330 are quite nice looking. But I hope this beast doesn't start replacing the absolutely beautiful and sleek 747-400 anytime soon....

Boeing, the 747A, please!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting SK A340 (Reply 49):
What's the black-yellow rectangle in the first picture for (between the 5X and TG logos)? Are they going to place the explosives behind that area during the first flight? I heard it was

The black/ yellow rectangle is the jettisonable door of the escape chute for the crew during the test flights.
During the test flights, the crew will carry parachutes. Should anything go wrong, they can jettison this panel and evacuate the plane through an emergeny chute.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
mav75
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:23 am

I'm proud to be a member of the so-called ugly corner. The 380 is an unnecessarily large airplane when the price of oil is climbing towards $57 a barrel. It looks like a bloated whale that swallowed the Pacific Ocean. I wonder what the break-even load factor will be. I won't deny that it will make a great box hauler, but a hinged nose should definitely have been included in the design.

When the 747 was first introduced, none of the airlines could fill the plane, so they pulled out rows and rows of seats and put piano bars and lounges in their place. In the case of the 380, they'll probably have enough empty space to accommodate a basketball court.

Hope the rudder doesn't fall off of this monster like it already has on the A300 (remember AA 579??) and the A310. I'd hate to see the carnage on that large a scale.
 
norcal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:37 am

The 380 is a remarkable engineering feat (though kinda of ugly), but I would have to agree that it probably won't make a great passenger airliner. I think the 747A will probably hurt the sales of the 38, especially if it is a lot cheaper to operate. The 747, while old, is a tried and tested design. Also it won't need all the modifications to infrastructure that the 38 needs. If Boeing is able to get the advanced out anytime soon (3-5 years maybe?), then I believe they could really hurt Airbus. Especially if they aren't able to reach the break-even factor. What is that now 300+ A/C? The market for this sized aircraft is so small and I don't see the need for A/C as large as the 38 for passenger service. Way too many people on board a single A/C. I know the 38 has more floor space then the 744, but all of those bars, duty free shops, and lounges are going to be replaced by seats. Just look at history. The 747, when first introduced, had that kind of stuff in the upper lounge. It was all eventually removed for seats. Need I mention PanAm's clipper ships of the 30s and 40s? Adding all of that luxury stuff has failed in the past and will fail with the 38 too.
 
trent900
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:51 am

Mav75,

How is the A380 unnecessary if the price of oil is rising?  confused 

The 747 is a lovely aircraft but how much more can it be stretched by to carry more passengers? The good thing about the twin deck is you only need to increase the length half the amount you would need to on a 747 to carry that many more passengers.

Any one know if the first flight is still set for the 9th? Ground runs must have started by now surly?

Trent.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:51 am

I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out yet, but in the second picture there appears to be a panel missing from the lower forward part of the vertical stabilizer, on the bottom of the "0" in "A380":

http://ww2.planepictures.net/31/47/1111093909.jpg
http://ww2.planepictures.net/31/47/1111093909.jpg

Could this show that they have not yet completed the rumored tail modifications yet?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
norcal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:58 am

Just noticed that too, I have no idea if they have finished the tail modifications.
 
KLMA330
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:43 pm

Can't wait to see it soar from Toulouse, and onto the world! Fly A380!!  Smile
 
iwok
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Tokoloshi,

Quoting Tokolosh (Reply 42):
The nose profile actually looks similar to that of a 777, but I don't see people complaining about that. I suppose once she is flying we can start to make more objective comments about her grace or lack of it.

Don't bring the T7 into this; its image conveys the athletic power of a tiger, vs the A380 image of a plump and loving auntie.

Admit it, you know A380 nose is butt ugly and we are all hoping that the stretch versions will look better. 747-SP vs. 747-400 for example. Most of the posts tend to agree that the front view is not flattering.

What we do know is that the interior of this bugger is sure going to be spacious, at least in the beginning. I am looking forward to my first flight on this whale of a plane.

iwok
 
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mariner
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:20 pm

NorCal:

So you say this:

Quoting NorCal (Reply 62):
The market for this sized aircraft is so small

But you say that Boeing should bring out the 747A. If the market is so small for aircraft of this size, why should Boeing do this - just to stick it to Airbus?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
astuteman
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:45 pm

Mav 75

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 61):
I'm proud to be a member of the so-called ugly corner

Best place for you as well, I reckon.

To say that an aircraft with 15% less fuel burn than it's nearest existing competitor is unnecessary in times of high fuel prices is clearly ridiculous.

I suspect your reference to AA579 is ill-advised in this forum, too.......
 
bigsmile
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:26 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:00 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 64):
I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out yet, but in the second picture there appears to be a panel missing from the lower forward part of the vertical stabilizer, on the bottom of the "0" in "A380":



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 64):
Could this show that they have not yet completed the rumored tail modifications yet?

Well Believe it or not when an aircraft is being worked on Panels are removed to gain access to any number of things. Here at the base of the fin there are pipes, electrical cables, plugs, sensors etc all need to be accessed.

As for these tail mods, They were very minor and are all sorted.
 
ba97
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:07 am

I am confused as to what is the "engineering" feat with this plane. It is just an extension of previous planes- more people being carried. To me you make the plane bigger. Yes a lot of engineering but nothing that is a leap- or am I missing something?
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
 
airgeek12
Posts: 725
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 1):
The body is gorgeous but the nose is terrible, Too blunt.

I agree completely. The nose looks really wierd.. I can't find the exact word to describe it...
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting Ba97 (Reply 71):
Yes a lot of engineering but nothing that is a leap- or am I missing something?

Yes I think you are missing something. It is technically total new aircraft. Besides that they used quite a lot of composite material, the aluminium structure is not any more as it was with older airliners. As I know it is a very new kind of sandwich structure which is much lighter. There are also many new other things (avionics and others) which I don't know. Perhaps a engineer could answer this question better. So it is, besides the size, a leap.
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 36):
I have a suspicion that most of the perceived "ugliness" will soon be forgotten when people actually see this thing in the air.

People fear change; they scapegoat the plane's asthetics for not liking that fact that it exists and can potentially take away the feeling of unchange, so they make up something unconsciously in their mind to hate it: They believe it is ugly and will believe it until it becomes "unchanged". Then the cycle continues.

I doubt most of you have seen many airliner concepts, that most of you may be so incredible used to the modern airliner shape that you expect anything new to look like what you have seen, otherwise something is wrong.

Hence: the "A380 is ugly because it doesn't look like the 747" response. (Technically A380 is a second gen 747SP, now we can judge equally.)

In my years I have seen many shapes beyond getting unenthusiased with modern aircraft, I can appreciate new things better that you can. By your logic, I've seen worse. Big grinD
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
Newark777
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 73):

Perhaps we just don't like the looks because it looks like a beluga?  Yeah sure

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 74):
Perhaps we just don't like the looks because it looks like a beluga?

They do not look anything alike. Edit: no, not even these two look alike, I don't know why Airbus nicknamed it that way:




Niether looks like A380, you are literally making a big deal out of nothing by over-exaggerating like a baby that won't eat their vegetables, as if they're yucky!

Note what you did; you can say it is ugly, that is your opinion; you do not have to give anyone a reason for your opinions, it is nobody's business. But you and others have by making comparisions, that opens up endless arguements where nobody wins.

Humans do not like change, it is a fact of nature; the only way this can be altered is dependent on your upbringing. In the meantime, you can make up anything you want to convince yourself otherwise.

[Edited 2005-03-21 00:51:42]
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting Rj111 (Reply 2):
The body is gorgeous but the nose is terrible, Too blunt.



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 25):
But can you seriously say that nose is not ugly? There is something seriously wrong with the look of it.

Yeah, definitely something is not right about that nose. Looks like a bulldog, perhaps, with the nose smushed into the face.

Quoting Spike (Reply 44):
She looks pregnant. Is she going to have an A318?

Best post. The 380 appears more streamlined to me now that I've had some more looks at it. But on the whole, it's still kind of a smush job, especially the nose.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
ozglobal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 60):
I'm proud to be a member of the so-called ugly corner. The 380 is an unnecessarily large airplane when the price of oil is climbing towards $57 a barrel. It looks like a bloated whale that swallowed the Pacific Ocean. I wonder what the break-even load factor will be. I won't deny that it will make a great box hauler, but a hinged nose should definitely have been included in the design.

When the 747 was first introduced, none of the airlines could fill the plane, so they pulled out rows and rows of seats and put piano bars and lounges in their place. In the case of the 380, they'll probably have enough empty space to accommodate a basketball court.

Hope the rudder doesn't fall off of this monster like it already has on the A300 (remember AA 579??) and the A310. I'd hate to see the carnage on that large a scale.

Wholesale FUD (Fear, Uncertaintly and Doubt), bankrupt on facts:

i) Please do some research before making comments about airliner economics. A full A380, flying hub to hub, has the best seat/km cost, just like your sedan when you're car pooling with three colleagues, so if anything, it's better suited to the current oil market.

ii) AA's A300 rudder failure was the result of pilot error. Again, do some reading of authorative sources and check the B737 rudder problem while you're at it.

iii) Those of you who have a neurotic aversion to this aircraft because it is not American would spend your time more profitably seeing an analyst than boring us with empty adolencent commentary about lost tails and carnage. On this point, read Lephron's post above.

[Edited 2005-03-21 01:13:08]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:12 am

It's a beautifully dramatic looking plane! Grows on me more with every new pic
 
nzblue
Posts: 564
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:59 pm

Just out of curiousity, does anyone here expect any airline that has orders for the A380 to introduce a new color scheme upon its delivery?

Regards,
NZblue
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
norcal
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 67):
If the market is so small for aircraft of this size, why should Boeing do this - just to stick it to Airbus?

Yeah basically Boeing should try to stick it to Airbus. Airbus would do the same to Boeing if the situation were reversed, and I would encourage them to do so. Its good business practice. It will cost Boeing a lot less to develop the 747A then it will cost airbus to build a whole new airplane. Boeing could recoup their losses on developing the 747A while selling a lot less then A380 because it is a derivative and not a whole new aircraft, and derivatives are relatively cheap to build compared to new A/C. Airbus has bet the farm in developing a new aircraft (so has Boeing with the 787), if it fails then Airbus will be hurting for awhile. Will they go out of business? Probably not, since the EU will probably write off most of the loans, but I think that it would put future Airbus projects like the A350 and maybe an eventual A320 replacement on hold until Airbus recouped from the loss. Also by introducing a competitive model and not letting the 747 die, then they prevent Airbus from getting a monopoly over the very large aircraft sector. Boeing's monopoly over this sector for nearly 35 years allowed it to charge whatever price they wanted and make nice prices. To allow Airbus to do the same thing seems foolish, when an economical and competitive solution exists. So you are right, I am encouraging Boeing to try and stick it to Airbus.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
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RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 65):
Fly A380!!

I bet that's what the EADS exec's will be muttering between clenched teeth as the fat old thing lumbers down the runway - half the world will be glued to their TV's, secretly hoping to see it trundle down the runway, gathering speed then... trundle through the fence at the end of the runway and into the history book.  Smile

Still never mind, take the wings off, paint them red and sell them to Ken Livingstone for London Transport. Would make the trip down Oxford Street something special. Big grin

Just kidding - I can't wait to see it fly either.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
gkirk
Posts: 23398
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:22 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 81):
I bet that's what the EADS exec's will be muttering between clenched teeth as the fat old thing lumbers down the runway - half the world will be glued to their TV's, secretly hoping to see it trundle down the runway, gathering speed then... trundle through the fence at the end of the runway and into the history book.

LMAO  Silly
It will either do that, or it will take off very steeply, do a loop the loop then fly out of distance where nobody can see and perform a Vertical Landing  Wink Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:24 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 82):
It will either do that, or it will take off very steeply, do a loop the loop then fly out of distance where nobody can see and perform a Vertical Landing

Kirkie - wishful thinking ! It's an Airbus, not Thunderbird 2 (despite the almost uncanny resemblance  Smile )
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
GoogleBoy
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:20 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:16 am

The A380 is a utility transport aircraft, not a business jet. When has anyone required a utility vehicle to be sexy? It's been designed to do a job: to maximize seat-mile revenues, period. It is destined for a very profitable future.
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting GoogleBoy (Reply 84):
It is destined for a very profitable future.

Don't speak too early, it hasn't even been flown yet. As long as it lives up to its claimed efficiencies then it has the potential to be as profitable as claimed, if it can't then I fear for its future. You also have to fill to make it profitable. Success isn't guaranteed.
 
curlyheadboy
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:56 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:18 am

Things i noticed:

1) Is that thing above the 5th window a spotlight?
2) It seems there is no hyd pressure
3) missing panel on the tail
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 77):
A full A380, flying hub to hub, has the best seat/km cost, just like your sedan when you're car pooling with three colleagues, so if anything, it's better suited to the current oil market.

That may be, but have you ever considered that people don't want to fly hub to hub anymore?
 
dazeflight
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:09 am

NorCal,

Quoting NorCal (Reply 87):
That may be, but have you ever considered that people don't want to fly hub to hub anymore?

please stop boring us with all that stuff that has been repeated a thousand times. old 
Just have a search for the phrase: "the 380 is not destined for the North American market" and do the math.  scratchchin 
You will see that your argument is utter nonsense, just like that, sorry, naive writing about the o-so-small development costs of the B747A - do a search for that topic as well and have a look at the real amounts of money Boeing is in if it goes forward with the B747A.

ciao
Daniel
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:28 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 87):
That may be, but have you ever considered that people don't want to fly hub to hub anymore?

What do you think?

Please quote me in context: This was a response to the objection of the apparently sky rocketing price of oil. If it becomes inordinately more expensive, have you ever considered customers may be willing to fly long haul via hubs in exchange for more affordable fares?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:48 pm

I never said it would be cheap to develop the 747A, I just said it would be cheaper than developing the A380 was. Maybe you should try reading.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 80):
It will cost Boeing a lot less to develop the 747A then it will cost airbus to build a whole new airplane. Boeing could recoup their losses on developing the 747A while selling a lot less then A380 because it is a derivative and not a whole new aircraft, and derivatives are relatively cheap to build compared to new A/C.

The key phrase there is relatively cheap. Here is a lesson in English. Relative-Considered in comparison with something else. When comparing the A380 to 747A, the 747A's development costs are relatively cheap. Is that in simple enough terms for you?

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 77):
Please do some research before making comments about airliner economics. A full A380, flying hub to hub, has the best seat/km cost, just like your sedan when you're car pooling with three colleagues, so if anything, it's better suited to the current oil market.

The only way the A380 gets that great cost/seat mile is if it fills all the seats. If the demand isn't there then the savings aren't there. So it isn't necessarily suited to the current oil market.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4624
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting A380900 (Reply 21):
Sorry dudes,

This aircraft is beautiful. That's all there is to it. I'm tired of people unable to adapt to new stuff saying it is less graceful than your average 767. It is a beauty

That is your opinion. Since you can share yours, I will share my opinion...

I believe Airbus picked an ugly design a long long time ago and has stuck with it through every Airbus aircraft series.

I say it's ugly, carrying the same ugliness found on all Airbus aircraft.

Again, and feel free to flame all you want, but that is my opinion.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 89):
Please quote me in context: This was a response to the objection of the apparently sky rocketing price of oil. If it becomes inordinately more expensive, have you ever considered customers may be willing to fly long haul via hubs in exchange for more affordable fares?

Oz,
assuming that the big bird comes somewhat close to its projected performance, then it could have low seat mile costs (with a good 650+ passengers aboard). But that would only be on the main leg where large passenger load could be expected (ie JKF-BUD). However, if you are flying JFK-FRA-BUD, then you have to factor in the additional fuel consumption for the final leg FRA-BUD. Taking both trips the fuel consumption on the A380 (or 747 for that matter) is probably higher than if you flew BOS-BUD. Hence that is why I think B is betting on more point-point flights. It seems logical to me that if you can make a trip with no stopovers that the net cost to the airline is decreased, hence improving profitability. I admit, this is a non-educated guess.

Each airline is going to have to do a cost benefit analysis to see where their cost numbers fall in. If the bulk of their passengers are going from hub to hub, then it may make sense for them to choose the A380. I suspect that airlines that have a high proportion of passengers traveling from non-hub to non-hub may not choose to have a lot of A380s.

Quoting Dazeflight (Reply 88):
please stop boring us with all that stuff that has been repeated a thousand times.  
Just have a search for the phrase: "the 380 is not destined for the North American market" and do the math.

Dazeflight, please stop boring us  headache  with you monotinous repetition of airbus press releases. Just because the A380 will not be used in the domestic NA market, this does not mean that A would not like to see the A380 in use on flight to and from the US, Mexico and Canada.

At the end of the day, the number of A380s sold will determine the success of the program. If A can sell 500 units, then I think we should call it a smashing success. I would guess that 99.9% of us A.netters are not qualified to give an educated guess of what the future holds.
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 6693
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:34 pm

Don't know where people get the idea that the A380 won't be successful. Passenger growth has been a feature of civil aviation since aircraft started flying and all increases in aircraft size to date have been necessary. Only if passenger growth was going to be non-existent in the next twenty years would there be no need for the A380. And the hub-to-hub vs secondary cities argument is pointless: with passenger growth continuing as it has done, both types of services will be necessary. And show me a major hub which has no plans to expand. . .
 
GoogleBoy
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:20 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:00 am

Guys,
I worked on a precursor design of the A380 in 1989 within the framework of a M.Sc. in Aircraft Design in Cranfiled University UK. Our project had quite stricking similarities with the actual aircraft with the exception of a T-Tail arrangement in our conceptual design.

This to state that market analyses in 1989 provided to us before we embarked on the conceptual design was that it would serve primarily the Asian Market which would want high volume passenger traffic (followed by the European one). We had countries such as Indonesia (highest density population in the world spread over a thousands of islands), India, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapour as having expressed interest in a prior survey for such high volume transport utility aircraft. Of course, back in 89 China was not in the scope for obvious reasons (the iron curtain fell in 91... and market liberalization in China took place only long after). Today, China seems also another strong possibility for target market for the A380.

I do believe that the fundamental market forces today have not changed significantly from that study in '89 and therefore you can expect a solid demand from Asian travellers.

One last thing, look at the structural and system partners involved in the design and manufacturing of the A380 to get another indication where you may have European national launch customers in the future.

I still maintain with confidence that the A380 is destined towards a brilliant future because it is primarily aimed at the burgeoing Asian market where volume capacity is a prime requirement for success. Also take into account that recently built airports in Asia (last 10 years) do account for 600-pax aircraft size arrival and departure. That's another indication of the level of preparation and acceptance this aircraft already has.

Per Ardua Ad Astra!
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:15 am

Thank you GoogleBoy for such a professional and non biased view of the things. Per Aspera Ad Adstra  Wink

BTW if everybody thought like these people who say that this aircraft never could be a success then there never would have been built new bigger aircrafts (like 707, DC8, 747), we never would have flown to the moon, no computer would have been invented and we still would live in caves.
 
GoogleBoy
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:20 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:32 am

 Smile
Interesting ZRH (and thanks), I actually work now on the "Moon, Mars, and Beyond thing". If none of us believed these hard goals could be achieved, then we would probably still believe that the Earth is flat or the center of the Universe. Just as we should all tody think in terms of the Earth as a big village...

Look now, we have evidence from ESA Mars Express that there may be 'microbial' life on Mars. Ok, I am digressing from airline stuff...

Sir Edmond Hilary when asked by a journalist before his ill-fate ascension of Everest: "But why Everest?" replied: "Because it is there".

That's the spirit of mankind.
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
Ken777
Posts: 9999
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:18 am

The 380 was designed under the "form follows function" concept and the function if the 380 is to carry a LOT of people. This results in a bloated tube and it does look stubby. No doubt the stretched version will look a lot more in balance.

Beautiful? Not for me - it reminds me of a suppository, which also was based on the form follows function rule . . . It is, however, a great engineering effort and is impressive. I think it will be far more impressive when you see one in person. For those that think it is beautiful I believe there is a bit of well deserved pride taking over.

I'm also one that wants to see B go ahead with the 747A. I consider it to fit in a different size bracket than the 380 - right between the 777/330/340 and the 380 and I think it will be a winner. Both planes will keep the competition honest and we will all be well served by the competition.
 
GoogleBoy
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:20 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:19 am

For those whom aircraft design is of interest, I would recommend the following book by Dr. Fielding (now head of the Cranfield College of Aeronautics Department of aircraft design) (1st link) and to get an appreciation of its content the second link provides a description of the table of content.


Book Description - Intro to Aircraft Design: www.booksmatter.com/b0521657229.htm

Book Table of Content: www.loc.gov/catdir/toc/98039489.html

Specifically related to the A380, I draw your attention to:

Chapter 3 - Why is it that shape?

Chapter 10 - The shapes of things to come: Should the project continue?
Section 10.5 -> Example of a conceptual aircraft design definition description - the Cranfield A-90
Section 10.6 -> Progress of the A-90 project beyond the conceptual design state (i.e. the A380 today!!!)

Appendix B - A-90 Parametric Study - Example of the A-90 500-seat airliner.

The book provides ample design info with sketches of the A-90, precursor trade study definition of the A380.
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
yul332LX
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:15 am

RE: New A380 Pictures

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:33 am

WEOW!!! This is one nice looking bird!

Can't wait to fly it on a YUL-CDG run  Smile
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...

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