Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Skymonster
Topic Author
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:25 am

Fox News has just had an item on - it seems that its just been decided that long lines of passengers waiting to go through airport security checkpoints are themselves a potential terrorist target and a security concern! The TSA say that they can't reduce the line lengths by employing more staff.

LOL! Does anyone else see the irony in all of this?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:39 am

Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

Why does the media insist on keeping everyone paranoid???

What if these types of articles are actually giving ideas to the "bad guys"???
Bonjour Chef!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15613
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:41 am

Interesting twist - try to deal with one problem and invertantly cause another. The main problems here could be a suricide bomber intentionaly triggering a bomb or shooting a gun in the line. Don't forget the gun attacks that happened in Rome (1986) and LAX (July 4, 2002) at check-in counters. I would suggest that this is probably a minor possibility.
The only way one could limit such problems would be to have security checkpoints at all enterences to the terminal building, like done in some government building or at security checkpoints to the gates.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
The only way one could limit such problems would be to have security checkpoints at all enterences to the terminal building, like done in some government building or at security checkpoints to the gates.

It would be practically impossible to do at nearly all airports because of the design of the terminal building(s). You've got airports with well over a dozen entrances and no room to put any sort of metal detector in the areas. At a small airport with one or two entrances it might be possible, but these airports may not have the passenger traffic to justify the costs of adding additional detectors at the entrances.

It doesn't matter how much security they put in airports, they will always be terrorist targets. As someone who works at an airport, the next terror attack could originate through the back door. I know at the airport I work at, our trucks don't get our loads inspected, they just check our vehicle permit and swipe our SIDA badge. The only vehicles that get inspected before going onto the airport are vehicles being escorted onto the airport for a delivery. Considering the number of different vendors and companies that make regular deliveries to the airport, it would be possible for a terrorist to have access in this manner, and could potentially either handoff weapons or explosives to another terrorist who had already cleared security and was leaving on a flight (As at many airports, vendors making deliveries and most airline employees don't even go through any sort of metal detector.). Or they could easily plant a bomb inside of a LD container, cargo pallet, inside boxes of mail, or inside of someone's bag.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15613
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:23 am

The LA Times has an article about this problem at LAX. It discusses the problems not only at security checkpoints, but also at ticket counters, by entranceways, access to terminals by private vehicles and so on. The article notes the huge costs for buildings and staffing by the airport and airlines to substantually reduce waiting times for check in, security. The article also brings up the idea of a grand central check-in and security screening at the enterence of the terminal areas, and where one would take a tram/bus to the terminals themselves. LAX is considering an $11 BILLION renovations project, and all kinds of ideas are being condidered, maybe some it impractial, some creating other problems, huge long term costs and greater hassles for pax.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:57 am

This is bordering on mass paranoia....what about sporting events, or ANYWHERE there is a large congregation of people?.......how about NYC Subway system? Times Square? c'mon..........this Govt rules by fear........the probability of being killed in a random terrorist attack in an airport is probabaly 1000x lower than dying naturally, smoking (cardiovascular disease,cancer), random acts of violence, auto accident (where 35-50,000 die a year!!!!).....
"Up the Irons!"
 
User avatar
vatveng
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:07 am

These days, sitting in a patio chair in your back yard is a potential terrorist target  boxedin 

I would suggest hiding under the bed, but there's probably deadly mold under there.
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

This also infuriates me with how the media can be at times irresponsible.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
zeekiel
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:59 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:39 am

Hey there people. Good morning from Auckland, where there's sun and a cool breeze off the Tasman Sea  Smile.

Now on to this mess. Look some people are just completely paranoid. Has anyone really looked at the word "terror" or "terrorism"?

From dictionary.com

# Intense, overpowering fear
# One that instills intense fear
# The ability to instill intense fear

If people start fearing standing at airport security checkpoints or at queues for fear of being killed by terrorists, then they are being beaten by "terror".

There have been airport queues from time in memorium. Queuing up for check in, queuing up for immigration, for example. What would make people want to hit a security queue, over any other queue. And what about queues when you want to get into a nightclub, tube station, etc...

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
What if these types of articles are actually giving ideas to the "bad guys"???

I don't know whether this is another idea to give to the terrorists, but seriously what's the point of making people more scared than they already are (if they are already scared)? These people don't realise the more they put these ideas into people's heads, the more scared people get, the more that don't fly (again maybe not, but then again I only get Fox News between 12am and 6am and I don't live in the U.S.A.).

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
It doesn't matter how much security they put in airports, they will always be terrorist targets.

Exactly. Nothing more to say there.

Oh well. Thats my morning rant.

Zeekiel
Bring back the New Zealand Air Combat Force
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
Don't forget the gun attacks that happened in Rome (1986) and LAX (July 4, 2002) at check-in counters.

And Frankfurt Germany in the 1980's too.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
This is bordering on mass paranoia....what about sporting events, or ANYWHERE there is a large congregation of people?.......how about NYC Subway system? Times Square

Frankly you know I can just picture Abdul hanging aroudn the port-a-johns at the next fair or airshow I go to.

For everybody's safety, may I suggest that if the line is not comfortably short for you.....hold it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:53 am

I really need to start watching my back when I'm in line to get a sandwich at Subway!
 
zeekiel
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:59 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Theiler (Reply 10):
I really need to start watching my back when I'm in line to get a sandwich at Subway!

Hehe, who knew people would fear a footlong Meatball sub for it's queue to get it ("Stack that mutha with plenty of cheese and thousand island sauce").

Zeekiel

[Edited 2005-03-20 23:01:28]
Bring back the New Zealand Air Combat Force
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7911
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
The only way one could limit such problems would be to have security checkpoints at all enterences to the terminal building, like done in some government building or at security checkpoints to the gates.

Wouldn't that just move the lines of people to another location?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

Why does the media insist on keeping everyone paranoid???

What if these types of articles are actually giving ideas to the "bad guys"???

Paranoia is power. Public fear is what empowers the current administration. It should be fostered whenever possible, often by manipulation of the media.

This is actually an old issue that came up after some bombings in European terminals, and one that was examined in detail by the Rand Corporation in an anti-LAX redesign study. It showed that security would actually be decreased by the so called "safety and security" redesign plan because it would create a choke point where people would be crowded into a single location.

The check-in center redesign is also a Trojan Horse that is designed to use public fear to reduce capacity at LAX. It would allegedly improve security but it would limit the number of passengers that can enter or exit the airport and reduce the number of gates. Since LAX is primarily an O&D airport, the capacity of the check in center would be the capacity of the airport.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

Slow down and take a deep breath. It's OK. This has been an issue (in the media) since airline operations resumed post 9-11. Having traveled weekly since 2000 I can say that at least at the airports I routine the wait at security is about at pre-9/11 levels and the checkin waits are much shorter. It has been my observation that when the wait at security is more than about 10 mins. all lanes have been open so more TSA agents wouldn't help without more security checkpoints. There's already more TSA agents than necessary most of the time. TSA=THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
The only way one could limit such problems would be to have security checkpoints at all enterences to the terminal building, like done in some government building or at security checkpoints to the gates.



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 12):
Wouldn't that just move the lines of people to another location?

ACDC8 you beat me to it. It would exactly do that. People.....the terrorists that are willing to commit 9-11 type acts against us are NOT stupid. They can see where people congregate. They know how to choose targets. Even if you could entirely eliminate airports as a target(at a prohibitively high cost), they would simply choose another target/method to cause the same amount of damage, loss of life, and economic chaos. The media isn't going to give the terrorists any ideas they haven't already thought of on their own. In fact most of the media reports on these issues are the result of gov't investigations into info recovered from terrorist camps in Afghanistan. If Fox is guilty of anything in this case it is that they are reporting old news.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:19 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:49 am

Perhaps people should have a security checkpoint at the front door of their house. Every time you leave your house you would enter a secured area.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10729
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:49 am

I know that this is Fox News, but how do people get paid for this cra*.

On second thoughts, perhaps we are all in the wrong business.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20606
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 7):
Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

This also infuriates me with how the media can be at times irresponsible.

It's called freedom of the press and freedom of speech, and it's one of the main things that differentiates a democracy from a dictatorship. Censor the media and you go down a slippery slope. Besides, do you really think terrorists need the media to get their ideas?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:10 am

Pretty soon, we'll all have to be cammoed up and grabbing the tree line at 5 meter intervals to clear Security . . . ha . . . I can see it now, Tommy Tells his wife, "OK Jane, you grab cover behind the check in desk and cover me while I move to the large trash bin. When I get there, send the kids and I'll cover their move. You come over last. Watch out for that guy by the escalator, he's suspicious looking and I don't trust the fat lady in the boa at TGI Friday's either!  crazy 

What idiot came up with this?

And did you expect the TSA to respond in any other way - here's a news flash there TSA idiots - you don't need MORE staff, you need to put the worthless, usless, lazy, staff you have to WORK!

TSA=THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND=USELESS.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 17):
It's called freedom of the press and freedom of speech, and it's one of the main things that differentiates a democracy from a dictatorship. Censor the media and you go down a slippery slope. Besides, do you really think terrorists need the media to get their ideas?

I'm well aware of what it's called. It's also called irresponsibility. And contrary to what you might think, not every terrorist is a smart as we think. There very well could be a less than brilliant rouge terrorist who just had a great idea fall in his/her lap compliments of the media.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20606
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 19):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 17):
It's called freedom of the press and freedom of speech, and it's one of the main things that differentiates a democracy from a dictatorship. Censor the media and you go down a slippery slope. Besides, do you really think terrorists need the media to get their ideas?

I'm well aware of what it's called. It's also called irresponsibility. And contrary to what you might think, not every terrorist is a smart as we think. There very well could be a less than brilliant rouge terrorist who just had a great idea fall in his/her lap compliments of the media.

How is it irresponsible? They are reporting. That's their job. The press should not be asked to censor itself. Examples of countries where the press needs to censor itself: Cuba, North Korea.


Also:
- "rouge"= French for red or makeup to make skin redder.
- "rogue"= the word you are looking for.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
stlgph
Posts: 11317
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

Why does the media insist on keeping everyone paranoid???

What if these types of articles are actually giving ideas to the "bad guys"???

It's Fox news. It's the Ashcroft way.

But don't you worry, I'm sure the "bad guys" are well aware of the locations of Federal Reserve Banks, Federal Court Houses, and the locations of many sports stadiums soon to open next month for the baseball season.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:04 pm

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 19):
And contrary to what you might think, not every terrorist is a smart as we think. There very well could be a less than brilliant rouge terrorist who just had a great idea fall in his/her lap compliments of the media.

Any idiot with a gun/bomb/weapon can differentiate a large crowd of people from a few people standing around. Come on.....Do you really think these people are so stupid they can't figure out where to find a target rich environment without watching the news? Get a grip dude!

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media insist on keeping everyone paranoid???

You know you bring up a good point but I don't think the media is trying to make people paranoid. People in this country tend to have short memories. I think the media actually in this case is making more of a public service announcement. Be alert and let the authorities know if you see something out of place. In the aftermath of 9-11, travelers alerted airline employees of stuff all the time. I know, several times I was reported entering a jetway in civilian clothes(I had my SIDA badge but they didn't notice it). That hasn't happened now for about 2 years. The public(and many people in the industry) are complacent again. That's not a good thing. NEVER FORGET!

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4540
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 1):
Why does the media keep giving away these ideas???

Why does the media insist on keeping everyone paranoid???

What if these types of articles are actually giving ideas to the "bad guys"???

Sadly, terrorists plan their attacks. Terrorists have ideas that the media has not even gotten their hands on yet. The "bad guys" have the ideas already, it is just how they plan on using them.

Any crowded areas where life can be taken is a terrorists goal of getting. Malls, grocery stores, trains, planes, buildings, concerts, sporting events, and even schools. These freaks will hit again, and sadly it is going to take innocent lives.

The media is not giving ideas away. These ideas have happened in the past, as airports are usually a target and have been hit in the past.

I applaud the media for keeping people paranoid. The moment we let our guard down is when they seem to attack. When I am in a crowded area now, I look for the nearest exit. I think about it, as I am sure the person next to me is too. We the people need to be aware of our surroundings, and ready to react in any situation.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Hardkor
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:51 pm

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:43 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't take anything from Fox as being legitimate, unbiased information
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:53 am

Soon, its going to be to the point where waking up in the morning is a terrorist threat. Don't be surprised if one morning, you put your feet on the carpet, yawn, and an FBI agent busts down your door and starts asking what you are doing..  Yeah sure
Puhdiddle
 
NYC777
Posts: 5104
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:57 am

You don't need the media to give out these ideas. Don't forget the simultaneous attack at the airline counters at the Rome and Vienna airports in 1986. There the terrorists used grenades and semi automatic rifles. If it was done once it can be done again.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

RE: Long Lines A Potential Terrorist Target

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:33 am

Well in that case we had better start screening people before they go to the Twins game, the state fair, the auto show, and even the Mall of America. Heck, even before you get on the freeway, you should get your car screened to make sure you won't do anything. What a joke!

The lines at security are no more of a potential target than the lines at a ball game or even the subway. People don't choose the airport as a target because of the people, they choose the planes because of the people. That is why there is a security checkpoint before you can get on a plane. These people are hysterical, just when I thought things were getting back to 'normal' something had pop up and remind me we are still in a post 9-11 world.

-TJ

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos