United's 777 Engines

ERJ145LR · Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:07 pm

What engines does UA use on their T7's? I dont think they are Ge-90's, right? What airlines have the GE90's and which use other, and if they use a different one, what is it. Why do you think UA chose to not use the Ge90's? how doe sthe size of any other T7 engine compare to the enormous size of the commonly used GE90's? Thanks!

ciccone · Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:19 pm

I believe that they are P&W. Looking at N213UA, it uses P&W PT6A-66 SER.

I know that BA uses the Ge90's.

StevenUhl777 · Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:47 pm

Quoting ERJ145LR (Thread starter):
Why do you think UA chose to not use the Ge90's?

Yes...UA uses P&W on the T7, as well as the 744 and 763, and I think the 737s as well. Someone told me what is used on the A319 and A320, but I'll be damned if I can remember.

UA does not, and will never again buy, engines from GE, as a result of the dispute (which I think hasn't been resolved yet, but not sure on that) over the #2 engine on Flight #232, 7/19/89. UA kept the GE engines on the DC-10's until the fleet was retired.

DLKAPA · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:32 pm

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 1):
I know that BA uses the Ge90's.

Only on a few of them, used for shorter ranged routes such as LGA-BOS. Most of them have the Rollers.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 2):
Someone told me what is used on the A319 and A320, but I'll be damned if I can remember.

Either CFM or Rolls Royce, and I'm thinking CFM.

jpetekyxmd80 · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:37 pm

UA is P/W all the way. Continental is a big GE90 operator on their 777.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
Only on a few of them, used for shorter ranged routes such as LGA-BOS.

Huh?

aeroweanie · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:41 pm

Ciccone:
> I believe that they are P&W. Looking at N213UA, it uses P&W PT6A-66 SER.

Thanks, I got a chuckle out of that one! A PT6A-66 is a turboprop...

If its a United Airlines airplane, it will have usually have a P&W engine on it. The big exception are their 737 Classics, where P&W doesn't offer an engine, so these have CFM56s. Similarly, the DC-10s had GE CF6s. The A319/320s have V2500s - in this case P&W only makes part of the engine.

United Airlines and Boeing were once part of United Aircraft. President Roosevelt forced the United Aircraft to split up in 1934 and United Airlines, Boeing and United Aircraft (which owned P&W, Sikorsky, Vought, etc.) went their separate paths. United Aircraft later became United Technologies. Despite the years that have passed, United Aircraft seems to still have a degree of loyalty to its old siblings.

United1 · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:45 pm

747-400 PW
777-200 /ER PW
767-300 /ER PW
757-200 PW
A320-200 IAE
A319-100 IAE
737-300 CFM
737-500 CFM

Starlionblue · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:47 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 4):
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
Only on a few of them, used for shorter ranged routes such as LGA-BOS.

Huh?

I bet he meant LGW-BOS Big grin

N1120A · Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:49 pm

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 1):
I believe that they are P&W. Looking at N213UA, it uses P&W PT6A-66 SER.

Their T7s use PW4000s

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 1):
I know that BA uses the Ge90's.

They use both the GE-90 and RR Trent 800

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 2):
Yes...UA uses P&W on the T7, as well as the 744 and 763, and I think the 737s as well. Someone told me what is used on the A319 and A320, but I'll be damned if I can remember.

There has not been a PW engine offered on the 737 since the 731/732. All 737s are CFM56 powered

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
Either CFM or Rolls Royce, and I'm thinking CFM.

RR does not make A32S engines alone, they partner with United Technologies (who own PW) on the IAE V2500 that powers them. UA uses the V2500, not the CFM56.

jpetekyxmd80 · Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
I bet he meant LGW-BOS

Me too at first, but I realized BOS traffic goes to LHR.

N754AN · Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:26 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
Quoting Ciccone (Reply 1):
I know that BA uses the Ge90's.

Only on a few of them, used for shorter ranged routes such as LGA-BOS. Most of them have the Rollers.

Completely wrong.

The majority of the BA 777 fleet have GE90 engines.

GE90 equipped:
G-RAES, G-VIIA, G-VIIB, G-VIIC, G-VIID, G-VIIE, G-VIIF, G-VIIG, G-VIIH, G-VIIJ, G-VIIK, G-VIIL, G-VIIM, G-VIIN, G-VIIO, G-VIIP, G-VIIR, G-VIIS, G-VIIT, G-VIIU, G-VIIV, G-VIIW, G-VIIX, G-VIIY, G-ZZZA, G-ZZZB, G-ZZZC.
Total = 27

RR Trent equipped:
G-YMMA, G-YMMB, G-YMMC, G-YMMD, G-YMME, G-YMMF, G-YMMG, G-YMMH, G-YMMI, G-YMMJ, G-YMMK, G-YMML, G-YMMM, G-YMMN, G-YMMO, G-YMMP.
Total = 16

And when did BA start flying between LGA and BOS??????

Chris

ual777 · Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:29 pm

737-300/500 - CFM 56/3
757-200 - P&W PW2000
747-400 - P&W 4062
767-200 - P&W 4056
767-300 - P&W PW4062?
777-200 - P&W PW4092?
A320/19 - IAEV2500

aeroweanie · Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:14 am

IAE, which makes the V2500, is a partnership of P&W, RR, Japan Aero Engines, MTU and Fiat. JAE itself is a partnership of IHI, KHI and MHI. Overall direction is done by P&W. P&W makes the combustor and HP turbine. RR makes the HP compressor, MTU makes the LP turbine, JAE makes the fan and LP compressor and Fiat makes the gearbox. Engines are assembled by both RR and P&W.

United_fan · Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:55 am

UAL777, 767-200 engines are JT9D's I thought ?

N1120A · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
747-400 - P&W 4062

They use the PW 4056 on the 744, not the 4062. I would bet the same is true of the 763ER

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
777-200 - P&W PW4092?

There is no PW4092. They use the PW4090, as they pulled out of their 4098 contract because of PW's f'up on fuel burn, and they have to take a 5 ton MTOW reduction because of it. On the 772A they use the PW4077.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
757-200 - P&W PW2000

Also PW4000 power.

N60659 · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
757-200 - P&W PW2000

Also PW4000 power.

Actually, that would be the PW2037 on the UA 757s.

N1120A · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 15):
Actually, that would be the PW2037 on the UA 757s.

Thanks, did that one too fast. Just like UA, underpowered as usual.

N60659 · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 13):
UAL777, 767-200 engines are JT9D's I thought ?

UAL777 is correct about this. IIRC, back in the early '80s, P&W went to a more simplified naming structure for their engines (remember the ads in Flight International and AW&ST with captions that read "JT9D-7R4G2....."). Again, IIRC the 747-300 was the last production aircraft that actuall had the JT9D designation. Around the same time, P&W wento to a different logo which employees disliked and voted to re-instate the bald eagle logo. All of this is from memory so if anyone has better info, please feel free to correct me.

jetBlue · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
They use the PW4090, as they pulled out of their 4098 contract because of PW's f'up on fuel burn, and they have to take a 5 ton MTOW reduction because of it. On the 772A they use the PW4077.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the RR/GE/PW engines on the 777s? Are some more efficient than others?

I've read here before that the GE was a brand new design, while the others were derivatives. How does one outperform the other in terms of fuel burn, range, payload, etc?

Thanks!
jetBlue

N1120A · Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 18):
What are the advantages/disadvantages of the RR/GE/PW engines on the 777s? Are some more efficient than others?

Well, on the 772A, the PW 4077 is just fine as an engine and has done quite well. The Trent 800 is also quite good here, while the GE-90 suffers because of its much higher weight and size

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 18):
I've read here before that the GE was a brand new design, while the others were derivatives. How does one outperform the other in terms of fuel burn, range, payload, etc?

Well, any power jump of this magnitude (60K pounds to 90k pounds) requires a major overhaul, minimum. The GE-90 was certainly the one more thoroughly rethought and the one that thought ahead the most. The same thing that hurt the GE-90 early on (size) is what made it the top candidate to get the exclusivity deal on the over 700K MTOW 777s. While the Trent, theoretically, could make the 110k plus needed, RR would have required much more time and expense to rework the engine and thus could not meet Boeing's demand for cost sharing. PW pretty much killed any and all chance it had with the 4098 debacle and was never really in the running. BTW, on the 772ER, PW4090 powered birds (such as UA's planes) are restricted to an MTOW of 646K, while Trent and GE-90 birds get the full 656K. This is why UA had to end its LAX-AKL runs, they could not fill the 744 and had to restrict the 772

aeroweanie · Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:43 am

N60659:

You are right about the new P&W logo - I saw a lot of them upside down on tool boxes, referred to as "dead chickens". They reverted back to the old logo, but with some small changes. Look carefully at the position of the eagle - its different.

UA772IAD · Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:46 am

Personally, though, I like the shrill that PWs produce:

http://www.flightlevel350.com/public_viewer.php?cat=74&pic=214
-or-
http://www.flightlevel350.com/public_viewer.php?cat=112&pic=1767
(Cue this one to about 1:05)
It's just so distinct, and unique sounding...
Does anyone know why only the PW's shirll?

ConcordeBoy · Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
PW4090 powered birds (such as UA's planes) are restricted to an MTOW of 646K

648K

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 22):
So I posted wrong once

*cough* sh'yeah, right *cough cough* Silly

DLKAPA · Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:21 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):
cough* sh'yeah, right *cough cough*

But they don't know about the other times duck

United_fan · Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:43 am

Okay,here's the definative list Smile

737-300/500 - CFM56-3C1

A319's - IAE V2522-A5

A320's - IAE V2527-A5

757's - PW2037

767-200 (all retired by now....) JT9D-7R4D

767-300ER's - PW4060 & PW4052

777 - PW4077

744's - PW4056

Correct as of 1999.

gigneil · Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:59 am

That list is of course missing the 777-200ER, powered by PW4090s.

That's the end of the list.

N

AADC10 · Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:00 pm

I wonder if UA wants to get rid of the 737s so they will be all PW or the PW derived IAE? Or is it that they are unloading the 737s because they are older but still marketable?

Carpethead · Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:03 pm

As for answer the to the initial question: What other 777 operator uses dual engine manufactures?
As mentioned previously, BA operated both GE & RR powered 777s.
NH, JL operate both GE & PW powered 777s.
EK & SQ will be operating RR & GE powered 777s.
All other carriers have standardized manufacturers for their 777 fleet.

RR & PW have smaller engine diameters than the GE90, with the smallest diameter engine being the latter.

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