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IADCRJ
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United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:23 pm

I am very interested in your feedback regarding
I know from my own experience that this facility is beyond a joke in terms of its setup.
 
bcbhokie
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:52 pm

I passed through "G" at IAD last week. About all I could think was "G is for Ghetto!" Coming from the gorgeous terminal at ROA, i felt like I'd landed at a backwoods terminal in a third world country.

And the shuttle bus ride didn't do much for my impression - driving past the boneyard of abandoned airport equipment on my way to the thoroughly unimpressive terminal C/D pretty much solidified my desire to avoid Dulles at all costs for the forseeable future. (There were a few pieces of equipment in there still labeled TWA though... neat history!)

Of course, ORD isn't much better. My return flight through ORD had a gate change from 2-F4 to 2-B22. B2x at ORD are actually "Ted" gates... nothing is worse than walking 20 minutes to your new gate, only to have a flight normally flown mainly by business travelers sandwiched between 2 757s full of Florida and a 757 full of Vegas. In an area smaller than two gates at ROA, no lie. Uggggggh. I'd make a comment about Mayor Daley here, but I value my kneecaps.

How does UA expect to compete with these horrid hubs? Sure, they offer lots of connecting flights... but look at the east coast markets they serve with IAD and ORD. Pretty much every east coast frequent flier has his or her pick of UA (IAD/ORD), DL (ATL) or US (PHL/CLT). Send me through CLT any day! And people wonder why I support US... it's their hub more than it is the airline!

Ben
 
IADCRJ
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:31 pm

Supposedly the main reason why the "G" gates at IAD were built, because United needed something quick and cheap to replace the "A" gates when ACA pulled out of the United system and bought the "A" gate leases from United to to start Indy Air last summer.

But still this "G" gate facility could have been setup alot better, for slightly higher costs and in the same amount of time.

Supposedly, a some rumors that I often here around IAD is that the "G" Gates are supposedly temporary and a more permenant facility will eventually be built to handle all of the United Express flights in the next few years.
 
flyCMH
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:41 pm

Atlantic Coast owned the A Concourse when they operated under United Express. Their was no purchase of the A gates from United by ACA upon starting Independence Air.
 
SilentObserver
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:14 pm

Not to defend UAL ORD ops, but what Ted flight which is

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 1):
normally flown mainly by business travelers sandwiched between 2 757s full of Florida and a 757 full of Vegas

were you referring to? I can't think of a TED destination from ORD which would qualify. And also if you were on TED, its an A320, no 757 in TEDDY colors. If you thought you F4 to B22 was bad, draw the F14 to C1, that's a nice 30min walk. There are alot of things we can say about UAX which need to be fixed. However I don't think Daley is the problem at all. If he had his way, there would be 6 new runways, a terminals 4, 6 and the western terminal, with western access. Then maybe UAL and AA could spread back out a bit. You can thank the fine folks in Bensenville and Des Plaines for the delays in improvements.

The G gates at IAD are temp and were built for less then a 5 year life. (Although I am sure it will last longer then that, since the C and D gates were built in 1980 as temporary as well.) There used to be a special page about the G gates on ual.com, but I can't find it now. They really were a quick fix when ACA said see ya later and took their gates with them.
 
IADCRJ
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:24 pm

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 4):
I can't think of a TED destination from ORD which would qualify.

United does offer TED flights out of ORD from the B20s gates to leasure destinations like FLL, LAS, MCO, and PHX.

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 4):
If you thought you F4 to B22 was bad, draw the F14 to C1, that's a nice 30min walk.

There is a shuttle bus service offered between gate E3 of the "E" and "F" gates at ORD directly over to gate C9 of the "C" gates, in order help prevent passengers from having to do this long trek between the two terminals.
 
SilentObserver
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 4):
Not to defend UAL ORD ops, but what Ted flight which is

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 1):
normally flown mainly by business travelers sandwiched between 2 757s full of Florida and a 757 full of Vegas

were you referring to? I can't think of a TED destination from ORD which would qualify.

I was referring to the primary only business travelers part. All those destinations are leisure as you mentioned. I would say there are some business travelers on each (often myself included) but its certianly not the primary passenger type.

The shuttle bus must be new. I fly United probably 20 times a year from/thru ORD a year and have never seen a sign or heard about it. It would be nice if that bus left from farther down F, since E3 is almost back to the main terminal.
 
apodino
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:45 pm

Most of the ZW pilots I have spoken to will tell you that G is the Ghetto. I do think the G gates are better than the satellite gates out at LAX with Skywest, where all you have for food is vending machines. But as has been mentioned, Concourse A was built for United Express a few years ago. The service was all ACA. When the went on their own, since the controlled the A gates, they kept the A gates themselves, forcing United to do something. The G gates, plus conversion of some C and D gates from Mainline, were the solution. The setup at G isn't the greatest, but its very clean, has a newsstand and a small snack bar, with customer service. I will agree though that the IAD operation has become really disorganized since the whole Indepenence Air deal.

About Chicago. I could be wrong on this, but what the guy was probably refering to is the fact that gates B19-B21 at ORD are TED with B22 used as an express gate. I don't understand this. Most of the Express flights are in the F gates as we well know, B22 makes it hard on the crews and stuff. Plus, if a plane breaks at B22 and we have to switch gates, thats a long walk for 50 customers to the new plane at F gates.

The best Express gates in ORD are C1-C8. Easy connections to mainline flights, and terminal 1 is the nicest domestic terminal of the three in ORD.
 
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United_fan
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:24 pm

There is a mainline gate over by the Ted gates in ORD. Are the G gates in IAD over across from where AF 's gate is ? I was there in July during the last days of ACA as a UX airline . What a shithole . Garbage all around the seating areas. Looked like someone puked on the window,dead flies around. Not to mention the usual confusion DH is famous for. The upside was getting a look at dayparking for Etheopian (sp?) and BMI.
 
Seattle Ops
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:01 pm

Sorry dude, the shuttle has been operating since Christmas of 2003. Listen to the announcements in the terminal. And comparing ROA and its plethora of RJs and DAsh-8s to Ohare is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
bcbhokie
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 7):

About Chicago. I could be wrong on this, but what the guy was probably refering to is the fact that gates B19-B21 at ORD are TED with B22 used as an express gate. I don't understand this. Most of the Express flights are in the F gates as we well know, B22 makes it hard on the crews and stuff. Plus, if a plane breaks at B22 and we have to switch gates, thats a long walk for 50 customers to the new plane at F gates.

Exactly. I know for sure there was an MCO and a LAS Ted flight operated out of B2x gates while I was there, and maybe a TPA flight as well? I am afraid that I (embarrasingly!) confused the 757 with the A320 equipment United uses for "Ted". My mistake - since the A320 is smaller, the gates actually had fewer people than if they were loaded 757s... the gates were still woefully underequipped in the seating and space department. (To my credit, United did pull a number of 757s to create the PS product, and Delta is using 757s for Song, so it is a common aircraft to use to try new marketing ideas.) The non-Ted regional flights operating out of B22 I would expect have fewer leisure travelers and more business travelers, due in part to the higher costs of flying those routes and in part to the character of the destination cities.

While I understand that ORD (and IAD) handle orders of magnitude more passengers than some of the other hubs I mentioned, as a passenger and not an operations guy, I still find the setup at CLT to be much, much more attractive. Concourse E is a great facility, and while I understand that terminals don't just magically appear out of the ground for free, I'll take the stress-free connection experience at an airport like Charlotte any day.

Quoting Seattle ops (Reply 9):
And comparing ROA and its plethora of RJs and DAsh-8s to Ohare is like comparing apples and oranges.

I agree it's comparing apples and oranges - but comparing ROA to Terminal G at IAD, which is what I was trying to do, is a bit more legitimate. All I ask when flying a regional jet or a turboprop is a gate area shared with as few other flights as possible, adequate seating, and if at all possible, a jetway. I don't think that's unreasonable.  Smile I _definitely_ don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an actual gate area at all  Smile

Hearing that C, D, and G gates at IAD are supposedly temporary makes me feel a lot better about my experience in the facility. They certainly /felt/ temporary, and if they really are, I can live with that as a passenger. But temporary for 25 years (in the case of IAD's C/D) is starting to sound a bit like permanent to me  Smile  Smile  Smile

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 4):
However I don't think Daley is the problem at all.

With ORD? Yeah, probably not. But I'm still bitter about Meigs Field.

Ben
 
jdaniel001
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:35 pm

The "A" gates at IAD will go back to being United Express as soon as Flyi fails, which could be anytime now. The "G' gates were only meant to be temporary as MWAA (the airport aurthority) paid for half the construction costs knowing it would be torn down in a few years when construction of the new "C" and "D" gates are built.

As far as ORD goes, UA announced yesterday that they will be taking over the ground handling of all UAX flight at ORD. That is great news for travellers, since UAX has been traditionally confined to T2. And the only reason any UAX flights operate from T1 at all is due to the overcrowding at T2. But the UAX flights are currently confined to the low C gates and high B gates because AWAC has to move equipment and manpower to and from those gates when the UAX aircraft are scheduled to parked there. It's a real pain in the backside. But now with UA handling the UAX flights, the RJ's can be parked at any gate at T1 which will increase the gate utilization of the hub. So hopefully by next spring, someone can get off an Express flight from FAR at C12 and walk across the hall to catch their connecting flight to HKG.
 
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United_fan
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:59 pm

When I was through ORD last week,I saw that Chautauqua is now using mainline gates for thier E-170's.
 
nomadic
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:29 am

I passed through IAD several months ago and was shocked at the deplorable state of the airport that is the international gateway to the nation's capital.

I was flying from London to Albany, NY via British Airways and United Express.

From the time of landing until take-off for Albany I could not believe how congested and shabby the entire facility appeared. After arrival we sat on the ground for 45 minutes waiting to cross an active runway and get to a gate. Customs was efficient but the arrivals hall was dingy and depressing.

Upstairs in the main terminal I noted construction going on and I just hope that when finished the building will once again be the architectural landmark I remember from years ago. Both the Dulles terminal and the TWA terminal at JFK made jet travel exciting even before you walked through the door. This time all I remember was an endless line waiting to pass through security, surrounded by temporary partitions and construction materials.

I have been in third world bus terminals that were more inviting than the G concourse. I couldn't wait to board my plane but the UAX flight to Albany was delayed and I had to endure the depressing surroundings even longer.

It was such a delight to get back to ALB. Our beautiful new terminal was a real welcome home. I know that UAL and some of the other carriers at Dulles are in financial trouble but if a small city like Albany, NY can have a little jewel of a terminal then I think Washington DC can as well. The new terminal at National Airport is outstanding. Why not at Dulles?
 
jdaniel001
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:33 am

Quoting Nomadic (Reply 13):
After arrival we sat on the ground for 45 minutes waiting to cross an active runway and get to a gate.

Impossible to "cross" an active runway after landing. But there is lots of construction. www.mwaa.com has a list of construction projects to make IAD a better facility.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:05 am

UA has been putting UAX is a lot of mainline gates (especially the low C and B gates)...if you remember, the "banana" used to where most of the UAX flights were.

Air Wisconsin has been using the low C gates in the mornings for several years now.
 
IADCRJ
Topic Author
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 15):
if you remember, the "banana" used to where most of the UAX flights were.

What do you mean by the "Banana"?
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:14 am

B19-B22 are in a small extension of Concourse B that is shaped like a banana. A lot of United employees call it this, and now many are affectionately referring to it as the "Ted Shed."
 
JetSOUTHEAST
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:22 pm

Jdaniel001,
Ijet to fail? I think United will fail quicker, especially with their labor problems, thats the whole reason ACA left them.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:02 pm

jetsoutheast,
glad to see you rear your ugly head again......lets assume that iair will trade below 1 dinero per share....for the next 60 days.....DELISTED.....my gosh a 70.3% l.f. at indy is going to propel them outta of financial abyss right?????yea with those 44.00 o/w tkts to vegas baby or fla(house of mouse).....nothing but solid cash......i say its time for another flyi experience to invigorate the minions at indy and to divert the inept mgmt at indy(skeen&moore)to those bad boys at ual as to your predicament..
 
tinpusher007
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 14):



Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 14):
Impossible to "cross" an active runway after landing. But there is lots of construction. www.mwaa.com has a list of construction projects to make IAD a better facility.

Not really, its done at ATL about every 30 seconds or so...landing on the outside parallels 9L/27R & 8R/26L and then crossing the inner ACTIVE parallels 9R/27L & 8L/26R to taxi into the gates.

At IAD, if the a/c landed on 14/32, might they have to wait to cross 1L/19R at some point?
 
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BNE
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 4):
The G gates at IAD are temp and were built for less then a 5 year life. (Although I am sure it will last longer then that, since the C and D gates were built in 1980 as temporary as well.) There used to be a special page about the G gates on ual.com, but I can't find it now. They really were a quick fix when ACA said see ya later and took their gates with them.

Were the Mobile lounge moon buggies meant to be a temporary solution as well.

I guess G for Ghetto sounds about right.
 
jdaniel001
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 20):
Not really, its done at ATL about every 30 seconds or so...landing on the outside parallels 9L/27R & 8R/26L and then crossing the inner ACTIVE parallels 9R/27L & 8L/26R to taxi into the gates.

At IAD, if the a/c landed on 14/32, might they have to wait to cross 1L/19R at some point?

First I was referring to IAD. And second, it is impossible to cross an active runway at IAD after landing or before landing or inflight. haha.

And for jetSOUTHEAST....let the records show that ACA left UA because the margin that UA was offering ACA was only 6-9%, whereas the existing margin was about 12%. Management felt that they could get 14-16% margins out of operating indepentantly. There is more to it than that, but that is one of the main reasons.

And the G gates will soon be gone as MWAA's master plan starts to take shape. They are currently building the underground train system and the new FAA tower. I think next is a new runway and rebuilding of C and D which will eliminate G.

Is there any airports with Z gates?
 
apodino
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 20):
Not really, its done at ATL about every 30 seconds or so...landing on the outside parallels 9L/27R & 8R/26L and then crossing the inner ACTIVE parallels 9R/27L & 8L/26R to taxi into the gates.

At IAD, if the a/c landed on 14/32, might they have to wait to cross 1L/19R at some point?

As its been mentioned, no runway or taxiways cross any Runway at IAD. And there is no 14/32 at IAD. The Third Runway is 12-30.

What might have happened is that a plane came in to land on 12. After making the turnoff, they could have held short of an ILS hold point or appoach point for 1L. Thats the only thing I can think of. The Taxiway doesn't cross 1L physically, but the approach to 1L takes the plane directly over 12-30 and the parallel taxiway.

ATL and LAX are apples to oranges comparisons because they have the outers for landing then active is crossed on the way in. IAD only has two parallels, one on either side of the terminal complex, and then 12-30 which doesn't intersect any other runway.
 
Mir
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:06 am

There is a very nice new concourse for UA coming to IAD. Now, when it will be there is anyone's guess, but it will be very nice.

In the meantime, the terminals there really are crap. I used both the G and C/D concourses when I was there last, and I felt like I was stepping right into the late 80s.

-Mir
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1997
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:53 am

Behind this CRJ at IAD is a new concourse, with what appears to have regional-jet sized jetways. Is this a new area for UA's express operations?


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potomac
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:57 pm

phatfarmlines mentions the new concourse adjacent to the main terminal...these gates will be the new 'T' gates, replacing the old, temporary T gates that have been gone for some time now. the east side T gates are pretty much done. the tenants for these permanent gates have not been determined, though Continental and AirTran maybe among potential candidates. they wont be used by Indy or UA - that's for certain. west side T gates will be completed down the road, after the construction of the underground rail.

dulles is a victim of it's own success, with the physical facilities playing catch-up with the rapid growth in air service. the d2 (dulles development) program for all of the improvements did get delayed after 9/11, but it is still behind the 8-ball. thanks largely to Indy and UA's controlled, yet consistent growth, air service has grown exponentially in just a year - bear in mind that Indy did not just replace the UAX service, as UA added flights to fill in the void.

i say it again and again...the one differentiator for dulles is that is has the room to grow. there is land for the addition of 2 more runways (another parallel to the 1s/19s that will be west of the existing 1L/19R and a crosswind parallel to be built south of 12-30). ground on the new 1/19 will be broken in jan 2006. the underground rail is being built to connect the main to terminals A, B, and eventually the new C/D, as well as a potential 3rd south concourse. the ramp surrounding that new C/D has already been partially filled in. the new control tower is more than halfway completed, and the main terminal check-in, security, and baggage claim areas are all being reconfigured to improve the flow of passengers. there is not an airport in the US that has the demand for terminal and airfield improvements due to existing and expected air service that dulles does, AND has the land area and plans in place to address it.

but dont forget that these massive construction projects require money - and the speed that money comes thru is tied to the performance of the airlines. so we can see how in recent years, things havent been able to move as quickly as hoped. that and the fact that any airport construction project must be done in a manner that minimizes the disruption to airport ops and sustains a minimally acceptable level of service for the passenger experience. it just cant be done all at once and at a fast pace - its like painting a car thats already speeding down the road.

oh, yes, the G terminal for UAX. yes, it was hastily constructed as a replacement for the express gate space in A lost to ACA/Indy. and everyone is correct that it is a nightmare. originally, this was designated as the "F" terminal, though once the nature of that place was revealed, F no longer seemed to be as appealing a designator. UA slapped this thing together on the cheap in light of its temporary existence, though through their arrogance i believe they were counting on getting back those A gates sooner than they might expect. both UA and MWAA are aware of what its like out there, and hopefully they approaching the critical number and nature of passenger complaints that will force them to do something about it. LAX has a similar remote express terminal, and while it may not offer all the amenities, it sure seems easier to get in and out of that place. lets hope UA can follow that model and fix things for what will undoubtedly be a longer than expected 'temporary' period.
 
jdaniel001
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RE: United Express' "G" Gates At IAD

Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Potomac (Reply 26):
UA slapped this thing together on the cheap in light of its temporary existence

I think UA talked MWAA into using PFC's for about 50% of the construction costs.

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