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jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:35 am

You cannot compare SYR to BUF, totally different places and fees at the airports.

The Upstate routes are full alot of the times and I don't think having 6 flights to SYR will work as much as their 3 right now. They are evenly spaced out and T6 can't handle too much more flights. It is at capacity almost. A plane will pull out of a gate and within about 5 minutes a new one will pull in.

Also if you had the EMB190's on the upstate routes you would have about 10 flights to ROC, 6 to SYR, and 14 to BUF. We can't really handle that until T5 is open and B6 has more gates to spread out.

For the new destination from SYR, B6 should look at what city(ies) that most people book to from SYR. Probably TPA,MCO,FLL. SO if they were to name a new destination, I would say 2X to TPA, 2X to MCO, and since FLL is full probably 3X to MIA if/when it opens up.

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26666
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 50):
SO if they were to name a new destination, I would say 2X to TPA, 2X to MCO, and since FLL is full probably 3X to MIA if/when it opens up.

There is no need for any of those service to be more than 1x daily. Miami/Lauderdale is SYR's 2nd largst O&D market, Orlando is 3rd, and is 5th. They can all easily support a daily ERD, maybe two to Orlando and Miami/Lauderdale, but anything more is overkill.
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:39 am

In 2007, JFK will become slot-free. It will be in Jetblue's best interest to keep as many 320s in service to JFK from Upstate until 2007 because of gate shortage and congestion. I believe the new terminal will come on line in 2008, and this coupled with no slot restrictions should open up JFK for more frequency at that time.

As the 190 comes on line for direct n/s flts to Florida, this will eliminate the need for as much capacity to JFK. Frequency could remain the same in SYR and BTV, but could be reduced in ROC, and BUF to JFK as the 190s begin to offset today's necessary transfers to Florida. This should temporarily provide needed gate space for new cities that come on line before the new terminal is opened.
 
newkai
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:39 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 11):
So what does SYR do to thank Jetblue and the Senator? The Mayor goes out and courts TransMeridian to serve SYR and reports to the press that this will lower airfares in the SYR area. It did nothing to lower fares in the SYR, but did give them n/s service to the Orlando area and other cities in FL, thus cannibalizing prospective Jetblue customers and keeping flts at 3 per day where ROC has 6.

What!? T9 kept B6 at 3 flights/day and the lack of T9's daily M80 is keeping ROC at 6!?

It's natural to want more service. And gasp... We'll take WN and FL service too! What are we going to do... Turn them down? All T9 did was fill the void left by US Metrojet and DL Express: Serving the #1 destination from SYR with a n/s. Is that too much to ask for!?
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting Newkai (Reply 53):
What!? T9 kept B6 at 3 flights/day and the lack of T9's daily M80 is keeping ROC at 6!?

It's natural to want more service. And gasp... We'll take WN and FL service too! What are we going to do... Turn them down? All T9 did was fill the void left by US Metrojet and DL Express: Serving the #1 destination from SYR with a n/s. Is that too much to ask for!?

SYR certainly could never handle 6 flts per day to JFK like ROC, but they could have had one more 320 if TransMeridian was not brought to SYR by Mayor Matt. SYR was told by Jetblue to be patient and they will get their n/s service to Florida in early 2006, but no they had to have it asap and cannibalized prospective pax to Jetblue. Now they up the landing fees for mainline a/c only, thus hurting Jetblue, NWA, and UAIR on their limited usage of mainline a/c into SYR. Do you think maybe NWA and UAIR are thinking about switching to RJs only?

Lets look at TransMeridian for what it is, a hired gun charter airline. Flts can and are canceled if capacity doesn't reach a minimum profit margin. Pax have been called after making long term travel plans and told that flt is no longer available and they will need to travel on another date. SYR has been ante'n up an expensive assistance program the last 2 years to have non-stop service to the Orlando area. They initially had n/s service to LAS, FLL, Orlando area, and the Tampa area. All that's left is the n/s service for the Orlando area, and that will go by the wayside if Jetblue ever begins 190 service.

In my opinion, that's a big price to pay to piss off the most highly sought after carrier today.

ps: I believe NYC is the number one destination from SYR.

[Edited 2005-04-16 15:45:25]
 
newkai
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:39 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 54):
Do you think maybe NWA and UAIR are thinking about switching to RJs only?

No, I don't.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 54):
ps: I believe NYC is the number one destination from SYR.

I'll look into that. From everything I can remember reading, it's been Orlando.
 
newkai
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:39 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:31 am

"JetBlue Nearing Fee Deal" - Post Standard

Well, that didn't take too long! The paper has just been filled with JetBlue recently. Here's an update from today (Saturday) on Thursday's article:

http://www.syracuse.com/search/index...ss-7/1113640809152910.xml?syrbubiz
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting Newkai (Reply 56):
"JetBlue Nearing Fee Deal" - Post Standard

Well, that didn't take too long! The paper has just been filled with JetBlue recently. Here's an update from today (Saturday) on Thursday's article:

I had a feeling that Mancuso and the Mayor would get heat about this. If they get it resolved then things will go forth as planned and SYR should get their n/s' to Florida for next winter season. As more 190s' come on line they should also get a few to BOS, IAD, and maybe one to LAS if the 190 is able to make that leg. If not, they could do 4 320's per week with daily 190 redeye service on the return trip. It's a good way to keep all the aircraft in high utilization mode.
 
FA4B6
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:00 am

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:03 am

Quote:
The airline has three flights a day each way between Syracuse and New York City's Kennedy Airport. Officials have said that direct flights to other destinations could be part of an expansion of service to Syracuse, and mentioned Florida and Boston as possibilities.

If they are working on an incentives deal, I wonder if SYR-BOS would be A320 service?? Maybe the a/c could do JFK-SYR-BOS-SYR-JFK? The 190's wont be in service for a while. Maybe SYR-Florida 1st with A320 service and then SYR-BOS with 190 service?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26666
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expan

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Newkai (Reply 55):
I'll look into that. From everything I can remember reading, it's been Orlando.

No, it is NYC.

SYR's 10 largest O&D markets 3Q04
1) NYC - 511 daily passengers
2) Miami/Lauderdale - 234
3) Orlando - 207
4) Chicago - 191
5) Los Angeles/LA Area - 165
5) Tampa - 165
7) San Fran/Bay Area - 150
8) Las Vegas - 128
9) Atlanta - 119
10) Denver - 93
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 59):
3) Orlando - 207

This doesn't take into account T9's flight to SFB nor does it account charter traffic. MCO is SYR's number 1 charter destination.
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 60):
This doesn't take into account T9's flight to SFB nor does it account charter traffic. MCO is SYR's number 1 charter destination

How many charters per week and whose doing them to MCO this past season?

Incidently, some new numbers I have seen show NYC at over 600 pax per day, and Tampa at over 200 per day.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26666
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 61):

Incidently, some new numbers I have seen show NYC at over 600 pax per day, and Tampa at over 200 per day.

That's easily because numbers adjust with the seasons.
 
SilentObserver
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 pm

RE: JetBlue Says SYR Too Expensive, Wants To Expand

Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 42):
Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 41):
To my knowledge there have only been 2 companies which have challenged the status quo in the airline business. WN and B6

Should have been more clear, by "Status Quo", I meant losing lots of money while flying. WN and B6 are the only profitable carries. Yes there have been other "different" airlines, sadly most have failed.

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