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klmcedric
Topic Author
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 12:54 am

During the flight safety courses I have had during my F/A training a lot of
attention was spent on ditchings.
For example(something some of you might not now), when you ditch with a
737-800 or 900 we can not open the rear doors becausee they would be below the watersurface and the slides ( not being able to deploy correctly would block
the exits) so its better to directly send the pax to overwing and front exits.
All this has led me to a question, have there been ditchings where the
aircraft didn't suffer too much structural damage so that slides could be deployed
and succesfull evacuation could be conducted resulting in a lot of surviving passengers.
It seems to me that all accidents with aircraft landing in water resulted
in massive destruction and a lot of (if not all) fatalities.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 12:55 am

I remember the original National parked a 727 in the ocean.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 12:57 am

There have been overruns in HKG and PPT where the slides were deployed, but I don't think they need to use the 'raft' option.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:01 am

Here are two:

Date: 16 OCT 1956
Time: 06:15
Type: Boeing 377 Stratocruiser 10-29
Operator: Pan American World Airways
Registration: N90943
Msn / C/n: 15959
Year built: 1949
Crew: 0 fatalities / 7 on board
Passengers: 0 fatalities / 24 on board
Total: 0 fatalities / 31 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Pacific Ocean (Pacific Ocean)
Phase: En route
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Honolulu International Airport, HI (HNL)
Destination airport: San Francisco International Airport, CA (SFO)
Flightnumber: 6
Narrative:
PanAm Stratorcruiser N90943 was on a round-the-world flight from Philadelphia to San Francisco with stops in Europe, Asia and the Pacific. The aircraft took off from Honolulu at 20:26 HST for the last leg of the flight to San Francisco. The flight was cleared via Green Airway 9, track to 30deg N, 140deg W at FL130 and then at FL210 to San Francisco. About half way, at 01:02 the crew requested a VFR climb to FL210, which was approved. Immediately after reaching this altitude (at 01:19) the no. 1 engine oversped. Reduction of airspeed didn't help and the prop could not be feathered, so the engine was cut. As the aircraft was losing altitude a ditching seemed imminent. US Coast Guard weather station 'November' was contacted at 01:22 about the possible ditching. Climb power was then applied to the remaining engines. The no. 4 engine however, was only developing partial power at full throttle. Despite these problems the crew managed to maintain altitude at 5000 feet at an airspeed of 135 knots. Remaining fuel was insufficient however to reach San Francisco or fly back to Honolulu. The crew decided to orbit the cutter 'November' and wait for daylight to carry out the ditching. Meanwhile electric water lights were laid by the cutter to illuminate a track for the aircraft. At 02:45 the no. 4 engine backfired and failed. The prop was feathered. At 05:40 the captain contacted the cutter again about the intended ditching time and descended to 900 feet. The ditching was carried out at 06:15 with full flaps, gear up and at a speed of 90 knots. The fuselage broke off aft of the main cabin door. The tail section swung to the left, trapping the liferaft launched from the main cabin door. Some 3 minutes after all occupants had been rescued, at 06:32 the aircraft sank at position 30deg01.5'N, 140deg09'W.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "An initial mechanical failure which precluded feathering the no. 1 propeller and a subsequent mechanical failure which resulted in a complete loss of power from the no. 4 engine, the effects of which necessitated a ditching."




Status: Final
Date: 26 MAR 1955
Time: 11:12 PST
Type: Boeing 377 Stratocruiser 10-26
Operator: Pan American World Airways
Registration: N1032V
Msn / C/n: 15932
Year built: 1949
Crew: 2 fatalities / 8 on board
Passengers: 2 fatalities / 15 on board
Total: 4 fatalities / 23 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: 56 km (35 mls) W off Oregon, USA (Pacific Ocean)
Phase: En route
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Portland International Airport, OR (PDX)
Destination airport: Honolulu International Airport, HI (HNL)
Narrative:
The no. 3 engine and propeller tore loose from the wing, causing severe control difficulties. The aircraft was eventually ditched 35 miles off the Oregon coast. The Boeing, named "Clipper United States", sank after 20 minutes in water of about 1600m deep.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "Loss of control and inability to maintain altitude following failure of the no.3 propeller which resulted in wrenching free no.3 power package."
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MKEdude
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:14 am

Back in the early 70's there was an ALM DC-9 that ditched in the Caribbean. I believe there were a lot of survivors.
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andz
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:16 am

Didn't that Ethiopian 767 that was hijacked and ditched off the Seychelles (?)have some survivors? Sorry can't think of any more detail.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
doninfc
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:22 am

Of course there was the hijacked Etheopian 767 that ditched off the east coast of Africa due to fuel starvation. I believe there were about 48 survivors, but 100+ fatalities. The ditching was caught on a remarkable videotape as I'm sure many on this forum have seen.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:22 am

MKEdude is right. I think it was in 1970 that an ALM DC-9-10 ditched when it ran out of fuel flying from JFK and St. Marteen. Most passengers did survive.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
Tod
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:24 am

NW also ditched a 377 in the 50's into Puget Sound shortly after takeoff from SEA.

IIRC - pilot error and everyone was rescued.
 
northseatiger
Posts: 426
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:33 am

Are you including helicopters ? as there are a few of them.
T's And P's look good....Rotate
 
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September11
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:39 am

Flight 23 has ditched in the Bermuda Triangle... passengers still alive, trapped underwater...

Art thieves hijack a private jet, hit fog and ditch into the ocean, trapping them and the passengers under 100 feet of water

Airport 1977
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PanHAM
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:50 am

That Ethiopean 762 ditched and they had survivors although the plane overturned. It took place nearby a crowded beach and rescue was on hand quickly. It was not the Seychelles but rather the Comores, Capital City Moroni
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SATL382G
Posts: 2679
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RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting KLMcedric (Thread starter):
It seems to me that all accidents with aircraft landing in water resulted
in massive destruction and a lot of (if not all) fatalities.

Actually quite the opposite seems to be true. Perhaps you would care to tell us about these intentional ditchings with massive destruction & fatalities?

Let see... JAL put landed a DC-8 in SFO bay unintentionally. That airplane flew again. Aircraft was landed in the water with gear and flaps down (not a good ditching tactic) and remained intact.

National unintentionally landed a 727 in the water off Florida. This aircraft stayed relatively intact.

And then of course the previously mentioned ALM DC-9 that was intentionally ditched and stayed intact

Quoting Doninfc (Reply 6):
Of course there was the hijacked Etheopian 767 that ditched off the east coast of Africa due to fuel starvation. I believe there were about 48 survivors, but 100+ fatalities. The ditching was caught on a remarkable videotape as I'm sure many on this forum have seen.

Never mind the fact that there was a fight going on in the cockpit while the pilot was trying to ditch......
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4711
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 2:13 am

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19520411-0

Because of that accident, all f/a's must be stationed by an exit in case of ditching.

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19561016-0

The only ditching I know of where a commercial transport landed in the ocean with no fatalities.

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700502-0

The ALM (ONA) DC-9 was a model -30. There might have been more survivors; however, the intercom between the flight deck to the passenger cabin was not working. Most passengers were caught completely unaware that a water landing was imminent. Because of this accident, no plane can take-off without a working system.

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780508-1

That's the last known incident I know of involving a water landing (with the exception of the Ethiopian 767).

What others did I miss?
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citationjet
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 2:26 am

There was a thread earlier this year titled "Survivors of Emergency Sea Landings?" with 34 replys...

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2000983/


On July 22, 2003 a Citation 525 ditched near Puget Sound, WA. The pilot is 80 years old, his passenger is 73. The airplane occupants were not injured during the water landing. The pilot and passenger exited the airplane by way of the main cabin door and began swimming toward the shoreline. Approximately 10 minutes later, the two were rescued by a local boater and transported to a nearby marina.

NTSB Factual Report of ditching (9 pages):
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/GenPDF.asp?id=SEA03FA147&rpt=fa

News report including photos and video:
http://www.kirotv.com/news/2350054/detail.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting KLMcedric (Thread starter):
It seems to me that all accidents with aircraft landing in water resulted
in massive destruction and a lot of (if not all) fatalities.

Here is a list from Aviation Safety Network of ditching accidents between 1944 and 2005. There are 186 occurrences in the database, and 118 ditchings had zero fatalities. That is 63% without fatalities.

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=REED
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
Euclid
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:42 am

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
That Ethiopean 762 ditched and they had survivors although the plane overturned. It took place nearby a crowded beach and rescue was on hand quickly.

And, if I recall correctly, a lot of the people on the crowded beach were medical doctors who were attending some sort of seminar or convention. The crash was filmed by a South African couple on honeymoon.
 
BSchlossberg
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:03 pm

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 5:51 am

As a matter of fact, there has been no instance in documentented intentional water ditchings (as opposed to runway overflys, crashes at sea, etc.) where there have NOT been survivors! The following is taken from the FAQs of the website of the Committee for the Rescue of KAL 007 Survvivors - www.rescue007.org


"14. Are there records of people surviving other ditching attempts?
Five intentional passenger (cargo) airliner ditchings have been documented. The following figures show survival rates for passengers and crew:

Aeroflot Tupolev 124, October, 1963, Neva river, 52 occupants, 52 survivors, 100% survival rate

ALM DC9, May 2, 1970, the Caribbean, 63 occupants, 40 survivors, 63% survival rate

Ethiopian Air Lines 767, November 23, 1996, off the Comoros Islands, 172 occupants, 45 survivors, 26% survival rate

Miami Air Lease Convair CV-340, December 4, 2004, Mall lake, Florida, 2 occupants, 2 survivors, 100% survival rate

Pan Am Flt. 943 Stratocruiser "Sovereign of the Skies", October 16, 1956, in the Pacific between Honolulu and San Francisco, 30 passengers and crew, 30 survivors, 100% survival rate

Though not a passenger plane, still relevant - Columbian AF C 130 Hercules, October 1982, en route between the Azores and Bermuda stayed afloat for 2 days! See photo - http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/image2/c130_690.jpg



For additional information see the Ditchings page.
Addendum:

Based on reports that had come to the Israeli Research Centre for Prisons, Psychprisons, and Forced Labor Concentration Camps of the USSR, we believe that the passengers and crew, with their luggage, were boarded onto Soviet boats and ships and abducted. We believe these boats and ships to be both the coastal patrol boats under command of KGB General Romanenko and the civilian trawlers ordered to the rescue by Deputy Commander of the Far East Military District, General Strogov at 6:54 - just 16 minutes after KAL007 had descended to 1,000 feet, the altitude under which Soviet radar could not track. (See Story Section -- Escape From Destruction). We believe, in accordance with the statement to Izvestia by Commander of the Soviet Pacific Fleet, Admiral Vladimir Vasilyevich Siderov, that "small boats" had already arrived at the site 27 minutes after KAL's set down ("crash", according to the Admiral - who also maintains that there were no bodies in the water). Furthermore, according to reports to Izvestia by amazed Soviet divers who had visited KAL 007 underwater just 2 weeks after the downing, no bodies were found on board or anywhere else (See KAL 007, The U.S. 7th Fleet, and the Great Russian Ruse). And according to the Soviet official claims, there were no bodies found on the surface of the water at "impact" site (though the Soviets did return 213 fished out footwear - representing 74% of the 269 occupants of KAL 007! See FAQ 12 - Do any of the items belonging to the passengers which were returned by the Soviets bear on the question of passenger rescue? What about the shoes?).

If, contrary to our belief, the passengers and crew of KAL 007 had not been rescued and abducted, and if, as in fact, there were no bodies found on top of the surface of the sea or found under the surface of the sea within KAL 007's wreckage, then there should have been live people, if not in KAL 007's own life rafts, then floating in the waters off Moneron Island until the arrival of the Soviet "small boats" - within one half hour. This is supported by the following survival manual survival rates for persons able to swim or who are wearing life jackets or who have use of some floating support, in waters of 50 degrees - the temperature of the waters off Moneron Island that morning:

Up to 50 minutes - Practically 100% survival
Up to 3 1/2 hours - 50 % survival
Past 3 1/2 hours - Acceleratingly, down to 0% survival (figures are survival manual figures referred to in the Republican Staff Study)

But there were no people, living or dead found on or under the waters. Where, then, are our people?"

[Edited 2005-05-06 23:02:45]
Bert Schlossberg, International Director, International Committee for the Rescue of KAL 007 Survivors
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Ditching With Survivors, Can You Name Some?

Sat May 07, 2005 5:59 am

Bschlossberg is wrong, of course.

In 50 degree water temperature a 50 year old has a 50% chance of surviving 50 minutes.

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