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mrcomet
Topic Author
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Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:16 pm

Given the trend of discount carriers that has worked so well around the world and noting that many of them are starting to leave their areas to become more regional, what is the likelihood that we will see a global discount carrier regularly flying $99 RT White Plaines to Stansted or $109 RT Stansted to Bangkok . The advent of the 787 or A350 seems perfect for that trend as the A320 and 737 will only work regionally. Can this be done under current air treaties?
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redflyer
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:33 pm

I think the trend will go in that direction, especially with the advent of the 787/350. However, I think it will be a completely different beast than the "discount" carriers of current regional fame. Certain traits we're familiar with today will not, in my opinion, hold up on a 8 - 10 hour flight.
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:39 pm

I think EasyJet was planning intercontinental low-fare operations at some point.

Wonder what happened to those plans?
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avek00
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting MrComet (Thread starter):
The advent of the 787 or A350 seems perfect for that trend

A 787/350 longhaul route could not be supported with those kinds of fares, period.
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PanHAM
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:46 pm

They exist already and are called Condor and LTU in Germany and Mytravel and Monarch in the UK or Corseair in France. Canada has a similar structure with Air Transat and such carriers are emerging in the Far East with Phuket Air for instance.

They even quote prices like $ 99,00 from FRA/MCO but you will have a hard time getting the same price for the return leg. Its simple maths that nobody can fly long distance for that kind of money and at the end of the day it is the average price which has to be achieved to write black figures under the bottom line.

But these are and will always be limited to seasonal routes with very few year round services and then usually not on a daily basis. This has been tried by (Sir Freddie) LAKER who pioneered this business segment in the 70s and by People Express as well. Both airlines are history and as long as airlines have to fill huge caverns and make First and Business Class as well as full fare economy passengers subsidize the fill-up rates in the rear cabin, there is no chance for a "no frills" carrier on long haul routes.

And who wants to sit for 12 hours in "Ryan Air" style anyway?
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redflyer
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 3):
A 787/350 longhaul route could not be supported with those kinds of fares, period.

I agree, but my point was to the fact that the new birds will be capable of bringing low-cost (discount) intercontinental travel to the masses. But not necessarily at the fares quoted in the original post.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Sun May 08, 2005 11:51 pm

Well- once Emirates has to fill 90 or 100 A380's and 150 other wide-bodies they could create a division doing exactly that....
An A380 with 700 seats would be pretty competetive seat/milage wise between the Gulf and India,Australia or between Rome and New York- should they go ahead and buy part of Alitalia.
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Xkorpyoh
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Mon May 09, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 6):
Well- once Emirates has to fill 90 or 100 A380's and 150 other wide-bodies they could create a division doing exactly that....
An A380 with 700 seats would be pretty competetive seat/milage wise between the Gulf and India,Australia or between Rome and New York- should they go ahead and buy part of Alitalia.

I was typing the same reponse!.. EK and its future global hub will be like the airtran of the world in coach. Too many A380 and too many seats to offer. Remember that the A380 is a great deal only if is full, so they better fill them up with low fares. It seems they add an additional seat to every row on every plane, so they better find a way to keep them full..

In a different note, their First class product in the A345 is the best out there, so it is suprising to see them playing both ways, with the high yields in first and the mass transportation (air-bus) in the back.
 
stirling
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Mon May 09, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
This has been tried by (Sir Freddie) LAKER who pioneered this business segment in the 70s and by People Express as well.

To call Sir Freddie a failure might be an oversimplification of the facts. However, in your defense, the story is extremely complicated and deserving of it's own topic...

A Global Discount Airline, can, and will succeed as the world continues to shrink with the evolution of airline transportation reaching deeper into the far corners of the world.
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PanHAM
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Mon May 09, 2005 4:13 am

I have not, and will never, call Sir Freddie a failure. I have the highest regards and much respect to this aviation pioneer. I do not need your defense and I am not defending myself, just because you put words in my mouth which I have not said. Fact is, LAKER and People Express are history. I know the Laker story darn well and I know that he was kicked out of business like so many entrepreneurs in many other business, who step on the feet of the established ones in their trade.

Sir Richard Branson is the successor of Sir Freddie and Virgin Atlantic is doing quite well.. The global discount airlines exist already, we all know their names, and they exist because they fill up the front end of their equipment with high yield passengers. The leisure carriers fill the niches and one of them LTU in Germany, will be 50 these days. There is nothing new about it, the wheel does not need to be invented again. May be refined, but that is constant evolution.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
mrcomet
Topic Author
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Mon May 09, 2005 4:38 am

LTU is somewhat of a global discount carrier. Still, many of these "discount" carriers are still expensive. LTU is $500-$1000 RT US to Europe. If that is what United also charges and United makes its money off international flights then there is another model that should work.

I'd like to see Ryanair take a shot at it.
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PanHAM
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RE: Will There Be Global Discount Carriers?

Mon May 09, 2005 6:28 am

I hate to destroy your illusions, but $ 500 RT US to EUrope IS cheap. Nobody can make money on that if every seat pays that little year round.

The Ryanair business model won't work on intercont. These ops are too complex and you don't get a 25 min turn-around at JFK, not even at BDL or ACY, and you cannot use the same crew for the RT either.

And when you try to book a flight three or four days ahead on Ryan Air going to a remote place 120 km west of FRA to a remote place south of Oslo, they charge you 300 Euros, which is about 400$$. That's by far not cheap, considering the time you loose and the money you spend getting to and from these remote airports.
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