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glidepath73
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:44 pm

Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 5:28 pm

Hi all,

according to German radio, Greek airspace will be closed today from 11.00 am -
03.00pm.
Reason: ATC controller strike.

Passengers should call their airlines for more information.

Crazy!

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
EK156
Posts: 646
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 5:34 pm

4 HOURS!!!! Oh no!!!! This is going to cause havoc all over the world...

Don't they have emergency staff for such situations?
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4427
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 5:36 pm

It's a strike. What does emergency staff have to do with that? Unless you are employing military ATC staff in the meantime, every civil ATController will be on strike.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
EDDM
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:15 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 1):
4 HOURS!!!! Oh no!!!! This is going to cause havoc all over the world...

That bad? Which major routes use Greek airspace, apart from flights to/from Greece of course?
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 5:59 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
It's a strike. What does emergency staff have to do with that? Unless you are employing military ATC staff in the meantime, every civil ATController will be on strike.

In this country there's a minimum service to provide if there's a strike, but I wouldn't how to apply that "minimum" service into the ATC... could that be... only RJ flights and no Domestic mainline or international flights? What does Greek legislation say about this?

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
EDDM
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 6:03 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 4):
only RJ flights and no Domestic mainline or international flights? What does Greek legislation say about this?

Of all airlines, why RJ?
 
SXFAN
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 6:07 pm

With RJ He probably means transit flights (just overflying Greece)
 
EDDM
Posts: 221
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 6:09 pm

What does RJ stand for in this context?
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 6:32 pm

RJ = Regional Jets
But the overflying flights theory, sounds quite a bit interesting too.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
User avatar
PipoA380
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 6:56 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
It's a strike

That's funny! It neither Alitalia, nor Air France this time!
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2100
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 1):
4 HOURS!!!! Oh no!!!! This is going to cause havoc all over the world...

i hope you're being sarcastic....  Smile
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
jouy31
Posts: 308
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 7:22 pm

Unless I am mistaken, there was a similar 4 hour strike on May 7th (my delayed baggage coming from LHR was even more delayed). And although it was not limited to ATC, many Greek domestic flights and flights to/from Greece were cancelled on May 11th (I had to stay an additional day in HER before coming back to Athens).
 
lazyshaun
Posts: 550
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting EDDM (Reply 3):
Which major routes use Greek airspace

Greece to London?
LHR get an A430 and a 733/4 from Olympic daily, with the occasional A300.

-lazyshaun-
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
LPLAspotter
Posts: 671
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 7:44 pm

Quoting EDDM (Reply 7):
What does RJ stand for in this context?



Quoting EDDM (Reply 5):
Of all airlines, why RJ?

RJ, in the context of an airline, would be Royal Jordanian. Just set the cursor over the code and the airline's name will pop up.

LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1473
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:12 pm

London is not getting OA a300 anymore as they are all sold off!!!
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:25 pm

nope there is still one flying
SXBEM I think
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 1):
HOURS!!!! Oh no!!!! This is going to cause havoc all over the world...

Don't they have emergency staff for such situations?

I don't mean to be a little critical, but, a strike in Greek Airspace is NOT going to affect Domestic flights in North America, nor most of Europe.....

I'd be surprised if it caused that much of a deal to be honest.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 16):
I don't mean to be a little critical, but, a strike in Greek Airspace is NOT going to affect Domestic flights in North America, nor most of Europe.....

I'd be surprised if it caused that much of a deal to be honest.

I believe he is being sarcastic. Of course that will NOT affect domestic flights in North America, nor any country outside Greece.


Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
iakobos
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:42 pm

The ATC branch of the Greek civil av (YPA) is on strike.
The strike was scheduled (announced several days beforehand) and follows another (also 4 hours) strike 10 days ago.
Reason: better wages...with the intent to come on par with W. European ATC staff (eventhough by Greek standards they are extremely well paid).

Who would benefit: everybody in the Greek civ av (and indirectly me.. Wink )

Which flights affected ?
Directly: all flights overflying or bound to/from the Aegean, Ionian and Greek mainland.
With the domino effect, some disruptions should be noted about everywhere in Europe, though minor due to the limited duration of the strike.

But...if they dont get what they ask for (or about), expect another one in 2 weeks of probably a few more hours, and then again and again and again....
 
petazulu
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:48 pm

Flights to anf from Cyprus, Israel, Lebanon, much of Middle East to Europe probably fly over Greek airspace at some point in their journey.

It should illegal for ATC to strike like this as they are critical infrastructure. I am happy that this type of BS is prohibitted in the US. Same goes for NYC subways drivers etc. They are prohibitted from holding the general public hostage for their own gain.
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:51 pm

Petazulu, can you offer an alternative to a strike ? ...in a democratic country that is.
 
EK156
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:56 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 17):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 16):
I don't mean to be a little critical, but, a strike in Greek Airspace is NOT going to affect Domestic flights in North America, nor most of Europe.....

I'd be surprised if it caused that much of a deal to be honest.

I believe he is being sarcastic. Of course that will NOT affect domestic flights in North America, nor any country outside Greece.

Hehehehe...offcourse I was being sarcastic. Come to think of it, it will cause some disrupt on scheduled international flights and that will lead to cancellations...

Have any cancellations been reported already?
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 9:58 pm

My proletarian greetings again to all the labor fighters!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[Edited 2005-05-18 14:59:38]
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 10:03 pm

Hot and unofficial and A.net confidential....  ghost 
It seems the government is bowing to the pressure (as usual).
The flat increase (not a percentage) satisfies the staff, so no other strike should be expected before November (in the worst case), May next year (in the best case).

Thanks everybody for your patience and your comprehension  bigthumbsup 
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 10:14 pm

OK now its time for the next Olympic flight attendants strike
followed the next week by the ground staff strike
followed by the pilots' strike
followed by the ...........
This is why i love my country...
Everyone has the right to bring the country in a total halt and produce chaos....
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 10:37 pm

4 HOURS!!!! Oh no!!!! This is going to cause havoc all over the world...

If that post was 3 or 4 years ago I would call this strike a 4 hour relief rather than caos just by from experience flying in and over Greek airspace.But for the last couple of years there is a significant development with the radar coverage and the controllers ability,still there is alot to learn on their behalf.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
iakobos
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RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 10:47 pm

After 9 years spent here I will dare to correct you Vassilis,
chaos is not produced, it is a permanent state.  Wink

Doxo to theo !

ps: I dont think OA is in for a strike, final assessments are made right now and the "official tender" (understand: the winner will be known beforehand and conditions laid out in details) will follow immediately.

Unions will keep quiet because they have 0 alternative left.
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Wed May 18, 2005 11:13 pm

If you think bring a country to a halt is an effective tool, you are right! But if you think it is constructive and efficient and is good for the long term growth of the Greek economy, you are very mistaken.

Take, for example, myself. Recently, I flew from New York to Larnaca. The cheapest and fastest flight to Cyprus was via Athens. What did i do? I flew via LHR because I was afraid of a strike in some part of the Greek aviation scene! Oh well, there goes a $3500 ticket.

I guarantee you I am not alone. When a new business wants to expand and open a new factory, will they build it in a place that has widespread transport and other strikes continually? Um, no. So in the end, strikes are mostly short sighted. There are a few exceptions in history when drastic labor action may be justified as a balance to the corporate world- but they are few and far between.
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 am

Petazulu, I heard you loud and clear.

Listen to this one: you live only once ! ... and every second counts.

You can choose to make your time on earth under stress and constantly in fear of something.
You can choose the Greek (non-exclusive) way, take things as they come and live a (mostly) relaxed life until your 80's without need for a practitioner.
You can choose an intermediate way.

At the end, we all end up between planks, but our story was drastically different.

Since I am here, I have forgotten what a head or stomach or any other ache feels like. Stress is something I vaguely remember when I look at my old passports or a pic of my Japanese ex-colleagues, one of which died in office from overwork/stress before he was 40.

Another approach... I made my choice.
 
olympicbis
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:32 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 25):
If that post was 3 or 4 years ago I would call this strike a 4 hour relief rather than caos just by from experience flying in and over Greek airspace.But for the last couple of years there is a significant development with the radar coverage and the controllers ability,still there is alot to learn on their behalf.

Thank you very much for your scientific evaluation of the inabilities of Greek controllers as well as their equipment. If you wish, I can send you a list with names and e-mails of about 15 non-Greek pilots - so not including myself - who would quite disagree with what you are stating.Now to begin with, you have to write cHaos.... And to continue, since this is an airline forum and not a politics forum, I will refrain for that reason only from further commenting...
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 7:11 am

Andr� (right ?),

Wing is not wrong when he mentioned some deficiencies on the part of the Greek ATC system and controlers only a very few years ago. There were, rest assured.
Some of it is publicly known and have made the headlines and filled tv shows several times. (eg. the very popular tv program: zungla/the jungle)

He is also right in adding that things have improved, I will even say seriously improved.

The simple fact that he is from an area closer to the Bosphore does not necessarily add a political dimension to his posts.
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 7:14 pm

Olypicbics,

I feel very sad if you take my words as politacally orianted dirt throwing,I fly a lot around the Greek airspace and my observation based on my own experiences.

Me being from the east side of the Aegean has no direct relation to what I said,we do political discussions with Iakobos sometimes since he is not and Greek originated person but learned his facts later from Greek point of view. I only try to give an insight of what it looks like from this side.This post was not one of them.

By the way Iakobos,
I read something about your friends from Japan,and since you a lot of times say you are not originally froom Greece,I always wondered what is your origin?Japan?(ýf you dont mind of course)
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
iakobos
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 8:23 pm

Wing,

Unfortunately (but unsurprisingly) I have to point out (too often) that I am not a Greek citizen, only a resident. The temperature of my correspondent's posts changes quickly from hot to mild ... much better for a civilized conversation.

Born Brussels, lived in 8 countries and been in 62 so far.
I am about as nationalist as our goldfish, as long as he/she gets correct living conditions he/she is fine.
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Thu May 19, 2005 8:38 pm

Btw, happy Rememberance Day
 
User avatar
carmenlu15
Posts: 4518
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting Glidepath73 (Thread starter):
Greek airspace will be closed today from 11.00 am -
03.00pm.
Reason: ATC controller strike.

4 hours? Great deal. Earlier this year there was an ATC strike in Guatemala that lasted about 24 hrs. And with no previous notice--one pilot had to land on his own due to the strike. The government had to bring personnel from El Salvador and Mexico to replace the striking ATCs, who in the end were fired.

Hopefully Greek ATCs will do better...  Smile
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
bahadir
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 12:13 am

One word, "siesta" !!!  Smile
Hahahaa..

By the way, Wing (or any other people for that matter) does this effect the traffic into BJV? I heard that some of the approach is actually done from the Greek FIR side?
Earthbound misfit I
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 28):
Another approach... I made my choice.

You, sir, are a respectable fellow. I always admire a man who makes his choice with *foreknowledge* of the consequences. That's true personal responsibility.

Now, personally, I'd *never* choose the Greek lifestyle. Something about a third world economy just rubs me the wrong way, especially when the third world country joins other not-as-well-to-do countries in complaining about how unfair it is that first worlders have a better economy. You are clearly not doing that, which is why I think you are very respectable, but a lot of your fellow countrymen are not nearly so.

There are *reasons* that first worlders have their economies, and it's because of hard work and all of the things that go with that. Still, we all indeed make our own choices!

I salute you!
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 3:32 am

CMH,

Note I did not say which option I choose  Wink
Just for the sake of the matter, it is the "intermediate" one...perhaps a way of saying I am trying (hard) to combine the merits/benefits of both extremes.
 veryhappy 
 
lijnden
Posts: 541
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:34 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 3:33 am

For all flights or just for Onur Air?
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ATL-HND-ATL-ORF
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 36):
There are *reasons* that first worlders have their economies, and it's because of hard work and all of the things that go with that. Still, we all indeed make our own choices!

Please remember poor Greece on your next band aid.
Thank you very much in advance.

If you want you can adopt me. I am in the action aid programme...

You are lucky it is an Aviation Forum...
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting SXFAN (Reply 39):
You are lucky it is an Aviation Forum...

Oh, I'm "lucky" huh? Otherwise what? Your big Greek fist would come through my screen and pop me in my fat American nose? Sure...

Perhaps your skin is too thin. Perhaps your reading comprehension is poor. So I'll spell it out for you: I was complimenting my friend from Greece about the exercise of his personal choice, particularly to support an agenda he chooses willingly. If Greece works well for him, I salute him and his respectable position.

My point was that it wouldn't work well for *me*. You can think I steal all my success on the backs of poor people everywhere -- but you'd be wrong, of course. Just like all those airlines and their employees aren't poor victims of the great evil traveller who wants to fly but not pay for it. They too make their choices, and reap their consequences -- whether they are Greek ATC workers striking for who-knows-what-reasons or people in the executive suite at United Airlines, who can't seem to make a good decision to save their lives.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 11:26 am

All my comments were on your "first worlders" v "third worlders" type of discrimination.
I did not comment on your compliments on Iakovos.

But give me a break.... How do you know that we work on a " rellaxed programme"?
The Greek public services sure do but for your information since 1949 we are a westernised economy and there is a huge private sector here that flourishes and has taken many risky initiatives in a region that your country doesn't want to see developed. and if it had not been for you (military jounta 1967-74) we would be one more step closer to our targets. btw in Greece we have a welfare state, do you?

You seem to categorise people very easy this is why i commented you that way.

[Edited 2005-05-20 04:30:59]
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:22 pm

RE: Greek Airspace Closed Today From 11.00am-3.00pm

Fri May 20, 2005 9:03 pm

So close and still so different...

Vassilis, nobody will deny Greeks try their best to live a relaxed life (including ATC staff to make it somehow relevant to the topic...).
Not easy in a rather tough economic environment, but they will always find a way to joke, sip a coffee and look happy even when crushed under the heaviest of problems.
Some will say they renege on their responsibilities and they are unconcerned (aka careless), Greeks will answer there is a time for everything.

Difficult for someone like me (W. Eur) not to admire this remarkable trait and I confess I have adopted a (little) bit of it ... and I feel much better.

I assume our fellow net-member was commenting on making responsible choices about one's life. He is from a country that mans the engine room of our big boat (economically speaking), Greeks prefer to remain on the sundeck.
Nothing wrong with this...as long as the sundeck does not complain.

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