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PipoA380
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Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 10:52 pm

I was pleased to see Etihad from AUH come on the market a few months ago (with a really excellent paint scheme) and start with quite a few aircrafts like 330 and 340s, and has ordered a few 380s too. Anyone knows what this airline is trying to do (I mean, it starts really big for a "newcomer"!)?

Is AUH really going to become a hub? Who started this company? Any facts welcome, I'd like to know a bit more on Etihad, and on AUH, which has only 9 pics on a.net!

[Edited 2005-05-29 16:13:24]
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Etihad Airwys: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:05 pm

The world has seen how Emirates has grown, and what essentially the airline has done for Dubai, turning it from a small city in the Middle East to a rapidly growing tourist destination. Dubai is now a modern city with construction everywhere, and no doubt many other cities like Abu Dhabi want the same. Perhaps etihad is the way for them to do it!
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:26 pm

I went through their job offers for 777 Captains and FOs and 330/340 FOs and guess the got no labour unions there! Nothing to complain about: Basic $5300 to $6700, Allowance per duty day of $191, Housing allowance, Educational subsidize, Medical insurance, End of service benefits... Gotta find a job there!
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airmale
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:34 pm

PipoA380: before you apply to work in the middle east, have a look at www.pprune.org and see what life is like in the "sandpit".
.....up there with the best!
 
zvezda
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:35 pm

I'm skeptical about EK's continued growth prospects. Like EK, Etihad seem to be well run and well located to serve as a hub between Europe, Africa, and Asia/Australia, however, the B787 will open up hundreds of additional city pairs to point-to-point service, reducing the demand for hub operations.

I would not be surprised if some variants of the A320 and B737NG/B757 replacement families have B-market range. Such a development would cut both ways for EK and other international hub airlines e.g. CX and SQ. It may be that only hub airlines with strong O+D traffic survive.

[Edited 2005-05-29 16:41:15]
 
flyAUA
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting PipoA380 (Thread starter):

All your answers are here  Wink
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
SXFAN
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:39 pm

Have you ever heard of me too airlines?
There used to be (and still are in reduced numbers) tons of them in the LCC industry and now they also appear in the Long Haul Market.
If Etihad will not differenciate its product from that of Emirates' then they will go out of business pretty soon. But on the other hand their budget is still powered by governmental sources, therefore they may remain in the scene for a bit longer. For now i think that the Middle-Eastern market has concentrated huge forces during the recent years and therefore we are close to some interesting harsh competition that will reveal the one or two protagonists of the region. For me Kuwait & Etihad will go smaller than predicted or even extinct and Gulf, Emirates and Quatar will become the ultimate leaders. But again this is only prediction.

Cheers!
Vasilis.
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Sun May 29, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 5):

Thanks FlyAUA, I saw that already, but there is not much info on it.

Quoting Airmale (Reply 3):

Oh well of course then there's the bad side of it, like everywhere! I would'nt like living in a 55�C hot desert!
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behramjee
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 2):
Basic $5300 to $6700, Allowance per duty day of $191, Housing allowance, Educational subsidize, Medical insurance, End of service benefits... Gotta find a job there!

you forgot the most important part of the salary...TAX FREE Wink  Smile

EY has managed to kick out GF on the AUH-BEY and AUH-CMB routes and forced them to reduce AUH-CAI. Word has it that even on AUH-BKK they are giving GF a vvv hard time due to their low fares.

EY has mainly managed to beat GF due to their vv low fares which do not bring profits for the airline...they are mainly meant for the time being (first 2-3 years) to create a brand awareness of the airline in the markets it currently serves and intends on serving. When they launched KHI last Nov, they came out with an introductory fare of US $ 360.00+tax for KHI-AUH-LHR/LGW-AUH-KHI !!!

EY is also owned by the King of Abu Dhabi who has brought in a team of ex GF big shots to help run the airline and make them follow the business model of EK.

EY starts daily AUH-FRA flights from June 1st and AUH-BRU-YYZ on Oct 31st (tentatively scheduled 3 weekly with A 332s).
 
snehnath
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:24 am

I would not count Etihad out that quickly. Remember, Etihad is promoted by the Royal Family of Abu Dhabi which is way richer than royal family of Dubai and politically more powerful. If push comes to shove over Etihad's survival, Emirates may be made to cede ground to ensure smoothened political relations between the two royal families.
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):
you forgot the most important part of the salary...TAX FREE



oh yeah forgot to mention that when editing my post!

Looks good for them!
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting PipoA380 (Thread starter):
and on AUH, which has only 9 pics on a.net!

I was in Abu Dhabi for a week in April 2004 and I still don't understand why their are only 9 photos in the Database. There are countless spotting oppertunities and plenty of different airlines that fly into their. Etihad was just starting up around the time that I was there and I got a great shot of 1 of their A330's and A340-300's next to each other. I'll try to post it.

Cheers...
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 11):
I still don't understand why their are only 9 photos in the Database.

As much as I know taking pictures from military and transport buildings is forbidden also in AUX (but also DOH, DXB etc). So i wonder why there are any photos in the DB - because they are everything but legal.

And to the question "winner or Loser": for Germany Etihad is a winner because they start Frankfurt services with 7/7 eff. June 01st, 2005. This is much better choice than flying to/from Munich. It will be a real upgrade for Etihad Germany services.
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fraspotter
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 12):
As much as I know taking pictures from military and transport buildings is forbidden also in AUX (but also DOH, DXB etc). So i wonder why there are any photos in the DB - because they are everything but legal.

I was out there at AUH and DOH with my lense since there were no signs that I saw and none of the machine gun ladden guards said anything, one of the guards at AUH actually walked up and we had a nice conversation about cameras and lenses... I don't know, maybe he just let me get away with it, but I highly doubt it.

And if it is forbidden at DXB, how come there are so many photos in the database from there?
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

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NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:58 am

FRAspotter, it's definitely forbidden in Qatar - and there are pictures from Qatar in the database.
You don't need gun ladden gards at places where it's forbidden to take pictures.
And it's a law in Qatar (I guess in AUX too) - so you want to have signs everywhere where things are forbidden?
Are there signs in NY's bathrooms that taking a bath for crocodiles is forbidden?
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antonovman
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:58 am

I flew with them a week ago AUH - LGW on A330
flight and service all just ok - nohting special at all except it was almost empty so everyone got a row of seats each which made it great for sleeping
no PTV's either which a lot of people seem to expect
all very ordinary i found
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 15):
no PTV's either which a lot of people seem to expect
all very ordinary i found

Let's see what they offer when they have their own fleet and not used ones from other companies.
By the way: QR as 5-star airline (one of the three) also has no PVT's inEco class. And why do we need PVT's?
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behramjee
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 16):
QR as 5-star airline (one of the three) also has no PVT's inEco class

QR has ptvs in every seat of its A 332-333 fleet but not on its AB6 eco class and A 320s.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:14 am

ok, Behramjee, I was on the A300 , so that may be the reason  Wink
And I can still live without PVT's! lol
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Udo
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Like EK, Etihad seem to be well run and well located to serve as a hub between Europe, Africa, and Asia/Australia, however, the B787 will open up hundreds of additional city pairs to point-to-point service, reducing the demand for hub operations.

I would rather suggest the contrary. B787 and A350 can help to further strenghten EK's (and others') position. These aircraft can be used to open countless new nonstops to secondary cities in Asia (huge potential in India and China alone), Africa, Europe and Australia.
No B787 will fly nonstops from Europe to Australia and EK can offer convenient one-stop routings from almost anywhere in Europe to almost anywhere in Australia. The same can be said for other continents. Dubai's new airport will beat everything what we today know as a modern hub.
Plus Dubai will continue to grow as a major business and tourism destination and the percentage of O&D traffic will increase continuously.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
I would not be surprised if some variants of the A320 and B737NG/B757 replacement families have B-market range. Such a development would cut both ways for EK and other international hub airlines e.g. CX and SQ.

The same can be said here.

Quoting SXFAN (Reply 6):
For me Kuwait & Etihad will go smaller than predicted or even extinct and Gulf, Emirates and Quatar will become the ultimate leaders.

KU and GF don't have the financial backing like EY or QR and will face hard times.

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 16):
By the way: QR as 5-star airline (one of the three) also has no PVT's inEco class. And why do we need PVT's?

What's a PVT?  Wink

Better ask the airlines why they install PTVs - if it didn't make sense for them they wouldn't do it.
Why do we have mobile phones? Internet? Laptops? It's called progress and so we also see Stone Age IFE replaced by hightech features. And those who prefer seat back holes can still fly LH.  tongue 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 19):
What's a PVT?

Better ask the airlines why they install PTVs - if it didn't make sense for them they wouldn't do it.

Hello, teacher. We had this discussion couple of times - some airlines are not interested in PVTs (you know what I mean and needn't ask, Streber  Wink ) others are. When customers avoid airlines without PVTs, airlines will notice it and install them. So what?
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trekster
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:24 am

At least im not the only person to wonder how, this time last year i had never heard of em, and now there making huge orders for A380's.

Come to think of it, i have not even seen one of there aircraft in real life yet??
Where does the time go???
 
Udo
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 20):
Hello, teacher.

Whoever you are talking to...  scratchchin 

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 20):
We had this discussion couple of times - some airlines are not interested in PVTs

Very few, actually.

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 20):
you know what I mean and needn't ask, Streber

Rhetorical question - ringing a bell? Big grin

Btw, this is an aviation forum and it would be appropriate to use correct terms and abbreviations for aviation related subjects. Just like Lufthansa should be abbreviated LH and not LU, or Boeing should not be spelt Boing.  Wink

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 20):
When customers avoid airlines without PVTs, airlines will notice it and install them. So what?

Many Germans will always prefer LH because it's "German" and they think it's safer and better than others...  embarrassed 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 21):
Come to think of it, i have not even seen one of there aircraft in real life yet??

Hehe, am invited for the inauguration flight party at FRA on wednesday  Wink and I will have the chance to see an Etihad plane.
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Mon May 30, 2005 10:09 pm

I've heard so much about EY's loadfactor figures, that I don't know what to believe... So what are their actual loadfactors on routes such as AUH-LHR or AUH-MUC, AUH-BKK for instance ??

Are they planning more flights to the Indian sub contient ?

Regards;

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Lowsonboy
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:26 am

I can tell you their load factors to LGW have been very low ever since they started service, there seems to often be as few as 30 or 40 pax.
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Tue May 31, 2005 7:13 am

Some say we shouldn't undserestimate it, others say that it will rock... I don't really make myself an idea there, but thanks for your posts!

My real question now is: has AUH the potential to become a hub in the middle east? EK has a huge market in DXB, and finally, Abu Dhabi looks smaller that my home airport, GVA!


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MOE777
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:24 pm

its the battle of the ego's between dubai & abu dhabi
 
snehnath
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RE: Etihad Airways: Winner Or Loser?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting MOE777 (Reply 27):
its the battle of the ego's between dubai & abu dhabi

Exactly. They will fight over the same sub continental passengers. Please remember DXB and AUH are only 1 hour and 15 minutes away from each other. If Etihad ups the ante, life for Emirates is going to be very interesting. If I were a passenger going on business to Sharjah, and if Etihad offers me a lower price, I could always hop onto Etihad and take a cheap cab to Sharjah (cabs in Abu Dhabi are 3 times less expensive than Dubai). Unless the emirate of Sharjah decides to start its own airline. Then the fun will begin. Isn't Air Arabia a Sharjah based LCC?

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